Naming Bridges etc For Marginal Historical Figures Based On Gender

Tony EH

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you think people are moaning about the bridge because it’s named after a woman you haven’t been paying attention.

Ahem..."Naming Bridges etc For Marginal Historical Figures Based On Gender"

Your thread title specifically mentions her gender as an issue.

If you'd had started a thread asking what made Rose Kennedy a candidate to have a bridge named after her in Ireland, without the focus on her gender, you wouldn't have been found out so quickly.

Nobody believes your issue with this has to do with anything else other than the fact that she's a female.

Positing a position whereby one questions what it is that Rose Kennedy has done to merit a bridge naming in a country that she mostly just holidayed in, would be an ok thread topic and one that would get more favourable responses, in between the usual After Hours attempts at levity.

But that's not what you're really concerned about and everyone can see it, no matter how you try to disguise it.

You played your hand too fast.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Fine Gael TD Catherine Byrne wanted to gentrify the Liberties by renaming it 'SOHO', for south of Heuston (station) after the red light district in London. What a jack ass. Didn't go down well.

The street immediately north of Houston Street in Manhattan is 1st street and the start of New York’s Grid system.

The are below that is a cool trendy area, known as SOHO, or south of Houston.

Nothing to do with the West End of London.

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you think people are moaning about the bridge because it’s named after a woman you haven’t been paying attention.

Should the Rosie Hackett Bridge have been called after her father?

the thread title is

Naming Bridges etc For Marginal Historical Figures Based On Gender

So i think it is fair to say that people are moaning becuase it is named after a woman.

Because it is named SOLELY due to the fact that she is a woman

You may have noticed I am delighted to see the Mary Elme bridge named in honor of someone who achieved something. Not because she is the mother of someone who achieved something.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Because it is named SOLELY due to the fact that she is a woman

You may have noticed I am delighted to see the Mary Elme bridge named in honor of someone who achieved something. Not because she is the mother of someone who achieved something.

a woman with connections to the area. and the other choices seemed to be crap.

SafeSurfer

osarusan wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

From the same Councillor “the name not only applies to a woman, but to a mother as well”.

Seriously, so what?

If the bridge had been named Joseph P. Kennedy bridge, and councillor had come out with 'the name not only applies to a man, but to a father as well', would it make any difference?

I genuinely don't see how you make a connection between what the councillor said and the social exclusion (as you see it) of Rose Kennedy in the USA in the last century.

You have hung your hat on that quote by one councillor (and your interpretation of it), but here are a few more for you:

'The new bridge will be unique in the world and a tourist attraction for the area,' Mr Hore added. He said: 'While the entire N25 New Ross bypass represents an amazing technical and construction undertaking, there can be little doubt that the magnificent bridge over the River Barrow is the outstanding technical achievement in all of Ireland in recent times and a technical achievement of international standing. We are 10 months out from the opening of the bypass which will fundamentally change New Ross town.'


New Ross Cathaoirleach Cllr John Fleming said he made a submission in favour of the name because he has seen the economic benefit being associated with the Kennedys has had for New Ross, as highlighted by the crowds at the Kennedy Summer School.



'Over the years tens of thousands of people have come to New Ross due to the Kennedy connection. Having a proper name to promote an area is the key. We owe this to the rate payers, the restaurateurs, coffee shop owners and gift shop owners having increased the rates. I want to see New Ross thrive and the bridge is a wonderful feat of engineering.'

Speaking after the meeting Mr Hore said a survey carried out recently found that 80 per cent of people think New Ross should use the Kennedy brand name. 'There would be no John F Kennedy Arboretum, Homestead or Dunbrody centre without the Kennedy name. It's a no brainer. I thought it was genius when Gene Kennedy Smith came up with the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy name as it works on so many levels for New Ross.'

Cllr Sheehan said he favours the William Marshal name, believing the town's authorities are overusing the name of Kennedy.

It's all about using the Kennedy name. It always has been. One of them even describes it as using the 'Kennedy brand name.'


I think, as I said earlier, it's a poor example of the argument you are trying to make, because there is so much evidence and history of the Kennedy name being used for tourism purposes.

So to recap, here is your earlier quote:

“it looks to me like the 'social inclusion' refers to the fact (or claim) that the Kennedy and Fitzgerald names are embedded in the local society and have personal connections and so on, hence it's inclusive in Wexford today.”

You want us to believe that when the Councillor cited “social inclusion” as a reason for their decision, he didn’t mean “social inclusion” and what he really meant was the what “social inclusion” means as misunderstood by you.

Basically that the Councillor shares your misunderstanding of what social inclusion means?

I think that is quite a stretch.

SafeSurfer

Tony EH wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you think people are moaning about the bridge because it’s named after a woman you haven’t been paying attention.

Ahem..."Naming Bridges etc For Marginal Historical Figures Based On Gender"

Your thread title specifically mentions her gender as an issue.

If you'd had started a thread asking what made Rose Kennedy a candidate to have a bridge named after her in Ireland, without the focus on her gender, you wouldn't have been found out so quickly.

Nobody believes your issue with this has to do with anything else other than the fact that she's a female.

Positing a position whereby one questions what it is that Rose Kennedy has done to merit a bridge naming in a country that she mostly just holidayed in, would be an ok thread topic and one that would get more favourable responses, in between the usual After Hours attempts at levity.

But that's not what you're really concerned about and everyone can see it, no matter how you try to disguise it.

You played your hand too fast.

I think you are just plain wrong.

What I believe is that people, regardless of gender, should be considered when naming public infrastructure.

I don’t believe gender should be a deciding factor any more than skin colour, hair colour sexuality or religion.

If we start to use identity politics as a criteria for naming bridges, ever more obscure people will be honoured, not on merit or achievement but purely on identity.

Roger Hassenforder

Do people seriously give a shît what they name it?

There'll be a bit of a do, maybe a Kennedy or two for the opening. Few sandwiches and photos. Then cheerio
No body is going to refer to it as the 'whats her face' bridge. It'll be the Barrow bridge or the new bridge.

SafeSurfer

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Do people seriously give a shît what they name it?

There'll be a bit of a do, maybe a Kennedy or two for the opening. Few sandwiches and photos. Then cheerio
No body is going to refer to it as the 'whats her face' bridge. It'll be the Barrow bridge or the new bridge.

Obviously people do care. The decision was taken at a council meeting which was described as the most “tense and emotional” that could be remembered.

Roger Hassenforder

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Obviously people do care. The decision was taken at a council meeting which was described as the most “tense and emotional” that could be remembered.

If this is what causes "tense and emotional" they've little to worry about

SafeSurfer

[\quote]a woman with connections to the area. [/quote]

A woman whose connection with the area is that she married someone whose grandparents left the area 180 years ago.

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A woman who’s connection with the area is that she married someone who’s grandparents left the area 180 years ago.

a connection is a connection.

Tony EH

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think you are just plain wrong.

What I believe is that people, regardless of gender, should be considered when naming public infrastructure.

I don’t believe gender should be a deciding factor any more than skin colour, hair colour sexuality or religion.

If we start to use identity politics as a criteria for naming bridges, ever more obscure people will be honoured, not on merit or achievement but purely on identity.

Everybody knows what your issue is with this.

You shot your bolt and no amount of subsequent weasel words can salve that now.

Tony EH

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Do people seriously give a shwhat they name it?

There'll be a bit of a do, maybe a Kennedy or two for the opening. Few sandwiches and photos. Then cheerio
No body is going to refer to it as the 'whats her face' bridge. It'll be the Barrow bridge or the new bridge.

Bingo.

And yet it's a cause for "concern" for some. :rolleyes:

SafeSurfer

Tony EH wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think you are just plain wrong.

What I believe is that people, regardless of gender, should be considered when naming public infrastructure.

I don’t believe gender should be a deciding factor any more than skin colour, hair colour sexuality or religion.

If we start to use identity politics as a criteria for naming bridges, ever more obscure people will be honoured, not on merit or achievement but purely on identity.

Everybody knows what your issue is with this.

You shot your bolt and no amount of subsequent weasel words can salve that now.

So thinking that identity is a better criteria than merit are weasel words?

I don’t see where the ambiguity is.

osarusan

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So to recap, here is your earlier quote:

If you want to recap, recap my posts from the start, because I've consistently said that it's all about using the Kennedy name, and not about gender.

I've provided quotes from people talking about the Kennedy name, and the Kennedy brand name, and from a person who thinks they are overusing the Kennedy name, all regarding bringing money into the area, chiefly from tourism. But you haven't responded at all to the points made by me and others that there is a long history of Wexford emphasising their Kennedy links, you've just ignored it all.

You have taken one quote about 'social inclusion' from one councillor, and decided that that alone is enough to claim that the naming of the bridge was based on nothing more than gender, but it's easy to make that claim when you just ignore what other people are saying to you and what evidence they are providing.

Anyway, I've spent enough time on this and don't have anything else to say. I've made my argument, so I'll leave it at that.

Tony EH

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So thinking that identity is a better criteria than merit are weasel words?

You're not concerned with her identity. You're concerned with her gender as your thread title has clearly shown.

Next time, try to be just honest or disguise your real issues better.

SafeSurfer

osarusan wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So to recap, here is your earlier quote:

If you want to recap, recap my posts from the start, because I've consistently said that it's all about using the Kennedy name, and not about gender.

I've provided quotes from people talking about the Kennedy name, and the Kennedy brand name, and from a person who thinks they are overusing the Kennedy name, all regarding bringing money into the area, chiefly from tourism. But you haven't responded at all to the points made by me and others that there is a long history of Wexford emphasising their Kennedy links, you've just ignored it all.

You have taken one quote about 'social inclusion' from one councillor, and decided that that alone is enough to claim that the naming of the bridge was based on nothing more than gender, but it's easy to make that claim when you just ignore what other people are saying to you and what evidence they are providing.

Anyway, I've spent enough time on this and don't have anything else to say. I've made my argument, so I'll leave it at that.

If the Kennedy name was to be honoured why not Jack or Robert or Ted. Well I suppose calling a bridge after Ted might be controversial but st least he achieved something in his own right.

Rose Kennedy’s only link with the area, as I have said before is that she married someone who’s grandparents left the area 180 years ago.

If it was named the Eunice Kennedy Bridge because of her achievement of founding the Special Olympics I could see the merit in it. Both as a Kennedy and on the basis of honoring her achievements.


Your argument that the only reason the bridge was called after Rose Kennedy is that she is a Kennedy doesn’t stand up.

SafeSurfer

Tony EH wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

So thinking that identity is a better criteria than merit are weasel words?

You're not concerned with her identity. You're concerned with her gender as your thread title has clearly shown.

Next time, try to be just honest or disguise your real issues better.

You are wrong to assume that. I don’t mind public infrastructure being called after people of any gender or none.
What I do care about is public infrastructure being called after people specifically because of their gender or on any other solely “identity” criteria.
If you want to ignore the fact that identity is becoming a criteria in this area you are ignoring the reality.

Tony EH

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you think people are moaning about the bridge because it’s named after a woman you haven’t been paying attention.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What I do care about is public infrastructure being called after people specifically because of their gender

Seriously. You're just making a fool of yourself at this stage.

SafeSurfer

One can look at the policy of local authorities for naming public infrastructure, monuments etc if they want to argue gender doesn’t play a role.

Page 4

“Consideration will be given to the gender issue”

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RecreationandCulture/Documents/PolicyDocument.pdf

SafeSurfer

Tony EH wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

If you think people are moaning about the bridge because it’s named after a woman you haven’t been paying attention.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What I do care about is public infrastructure being called after people specifically because of their gender

Seriously. You're just making a fool of yourself at this stage.

Why because of the quotes in your post? Please explain.

Boggles

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are wrong to assume that. I don’t mind public infrastructure being called after people of any gender or none.
What I do care about is public infrastructure being called after people specifically because of their gender or on any other solely “identity” criteria.
If you want to ignore the fact that identity is becoming a criteria in this area you are ignoring the reality.

Da Fuq?

The 2 choices were name it after a woman or name it after a town.

Does a town / area have a gender?

SafeSurfer

Boggles wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are wrong to assume that. I don’t mind public infrastructure being called after people of any gender or none.
What I do care about is public infrastructure being called after people specifically because of their gender or on any other solely “identity” criteria.
If you want to ignore the fact that identity is becoming a criteria in this area you are ignoring the reality.

Da Fuq?

The 2 choices were name it after a woman or name it after a town.

Does a town / area have a gender?

What town?

Boggles

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What town?

Pink Rock.

I imagine it is a town / area and not an actual male person?

ohnonotgmail

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What town?

not a town but a place. Pink Rock. that was the alternative.

SafeSurfer

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What town?

not a town but a place. Pink Rock. that was the alternative.

Dickie’s mother?

Hotblack Desiato

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a woman with connections to the area.

She's not Irish. It shouldn't have been named after her purely on that basis.

We shouldn't be naming anything after a living Irish person, either.

Quantum Erasure

build a bridge lads

road_high

Rose Kennedy bridge is absolute rubbish- this woman had sweet fanny all to do with New Ross and unlikely she could even find it on a bloody map. Cllrs in the south Kilkenny were against this naming but were outvoted I think.
A fair more worthy and relevant name would have been Eileen Roche who was sacked in the 80s as teacher locally because she was in a relationship with a separated man. She was very wronged at the time but her case did help in some way to pave the way for the freedoms and protections we all enjoy today

SafeSurfer

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

build a bridge lads

We’d never get over it