Another split - Paul Murphy leaves the Socialist Party

There are now 15 different left groups. If they cannot get on with each other, how are they to get on with running the country?

Doesn’t he know that a RISE comes before a FALL?

mariaalice

They don't get voted in for their policies it's a cult thing, a movement not a political party.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Deleted User wrote: »

There are now 15 different left groups. If they cannot get on with each other, how are they to get on with running the country?

In a way, Murphy is doing the electorate a favour by educating them about what some socialists would aspire to do if they ever got into power.

The more voters read about opening the borders to all comers, handing everything out for free, nationalising key industries, massive tax increases, expropriation of private property, etc., the more they'll see that groups like RISE are the lunatic fringe of the already nutty Irish far left.

facehugger99

Kason Witty Beehive wrote: »

In a way, Murphy is doing the electorate a favour by educating them about what some socialists would aspire to do if they ever got into power.

The more voters read about opening the borders to all comers, handing everything out for free, nationalising key industries, massive tax increases, expropriation of private property, etc., the more they'll see that groups like RISE are the lunatic fringe of the already nutty Irish far left.

Unfortunately I doubt many of his potential voters really give any consideration to his policies or manifestos.

Unless it can be boiled down to a bellow through a megaphone or a scrawl on a placard, it'll go over their heads.

Ruraldweller56

Kason Witty Beehive wrote: »

In a way, Murphy is doing the electorate a favour by educating them about what some socialists would aspire to do if they ever got into power.

The more voters read about opening the borders to all comers, handing everything out for free, nationalising key industries, massive tax increases, expropriation of private property, etc., the more they'll see that groups like RISE are the lunatic fringe of the already nutty Irish far left.

Didn't say something like if you want to see why democracy doesn't work just have a 5 minute conversation with a typical voter?

These days all you need to do is take a look at twitter or any of those mybebobookspacefacepages to see how inane groupthink works. Catchy slogans - very often disingenuous, poorly thought out and typically telling about 25% of the whole story - with 10's of 1000's of likes.

BuT tHe BaNk BAiLoUt CoMrAdE. Free **** for all.

Sounds great until you just put a tiny, tiny bit of brainpower into it.

nkl12xtw5goz70

You're both right. It's depressing to realise it, though. There's very little intelligent thinking anymore, which gives chancers like Murphy an opening.

begsbyOnaTrain

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

These days all you need to do is take a look at twitter or any of those mybebobookspacefacepages to see how inane groupthink works. Catchy slogans - very often disingenuous, poorly thought out and typically telling about 25% of the whole story - with 10's of 1000's of likes.

You've been invited to the "Irish Socialists against Palestinian Bin Charges" group.

Hotblack Desiato

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

You know we could well be better off. We could reconnect as humans. Rediscover our identity and heritage. Rediscover our spirituality and connect with nature. Take up fishing and exercise. Take up DIY. Do something useful.

As opposed to the culture of rabid degeneracy that has ruined this place. Morons with blue hair and their faces stuck in their phones looking at tinder and Greta.

I'm left wondering if this is supposed to be some sort of parody?

Connect as humans --- wooooo --- spirituality ---- woooooooo ---- connect with nature --- woooooooooo
The difference is good old "traditional catholic values" delivered at the point of a parish priest's blackthorn stick instead of whalesong, crystals and aurae.

A firm "No thanks" to both.

Kason Witty Beehive wrote: »

The numbers living on a dollar a day or less fell from 27 percent of the world's population in 1970 to just 5 percent in 2006.

Meaningless stat unless inflation is taken into account.

Meanwhile, efforts to implement Marxism have only ever led to widespread starvation, death, political tyranny, and misery. It's amazing to me that this ideology still has its adherents.

You're not wrong there.

Deleted User wrote: »

There are now 15 different left groups. If they cannot get on with each other, how are they to get on with running the country?

Reminds me of an old XKCD comic about standardization:

- There are 15 left groups, all of which are tiny and useless!
- Let's start a new, better left group!
- There are now 16 left groups.

James Brown

Kason Witty Beehive wrote: »

The "greed" in the market is stemming from people demanding decent returns even as interest rates have been driven to zero, or less than zero, due to the actions of central banks.

"Greedy people" aren't necessarily fat-cat, cigar-chomping bankers. They're ordinary people. As you note yourself, the people affected by high rents are often putting their own pension money in the same REITs that are buying up the property.

You are the only one, who twice now, related greed and big business to cigar chomping fat cat types. You assume that's what I envision and respond in kind. Please don't waste our time.
As I noted myself, yes, re pension funds.

If you look at Brexit, Johnson and company want a no deal as it suits their financial backers betting on a low pound also they get to dodge new off shore fund restrictions the EU are bringing in in April I believe.
So if that no deal comes to pass the British general public will likely suffer so Boris and chums can make more millions. All legal and above board, but the type of thing we need to regulate. Michael Noonan made a personal finances killing while we were in the throws of 'taking one for the team' as he put it. Report today about the cost of the bank bail out, the servicing of it coming between 1.1 and 1.3 Billion a year. The over all cost having currently risen to 41.7 Billion. It seems even the architects of our misfortune fare well.
People are what they are. We need oversight.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That’s democracy, Matthew. People don’t vote in large numbers for the loony left.

You missed the ball johnny, that's the point. You got to say 'loony left' though. Good lad.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You are the only one, who twice now, related greed and big business to cigar chomping fat cat types. You assume that's what I envision and respond in kind. Please don't waste our time.
As I noted myself, yes, re pension funds.

If you look at Brexit, Johnson and company want a no deal as it suits their financial backers betting on a low pound also they get to dodge new off shore fund restrictions the EU are bringing in in April I believe.
So if that no deal comes to pass the British general public will likely suffer so Boris and chums can make more millions. All legal and above board, but the type of thing we need to regulate. Michael Noonan made a personal finances killing while we were in the throws of 'taking one for the team' as he put it. Report today about the cost of the bank bail out, the servicing of it coming between 1.1 and 1.3 Billion a year. The over all cost having currently risen to 41.7 Billion. It seems even the architects of our misfortune fare well.
People are what they are. We need oversight.

The extent of the ignorance in your posts has never been more clearly demonstrated when you link Noonan to being the architect of the bailout.

Conservative

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

It kills me that the Internationale is one of my favourite pieces of music..

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The extent of the ignorance in your posts has never been more clearly demonstrated when you link Noonan to being the architect of the bailout.

Says Mr. No credibility.
Noonan had no input in our bail out program? I love the Fine Gaeler idea that their lads did nothing, yet pulled us back from the brink. Pick one Blanch.

Not calling you a Fine Gaeler, just commenting on your comment jumping in to protect and defend Noonan.

JohnnyFlash

RISE has lost one of its first members already - seems there has been a disagreement about how the name clashes with an addiction service and a short-lived group of rural protestors who obviously paid more money for placement on the google search rankings.

The revolution is just around the corner, comrades.

JohnnyFlash

One of the best things about the Autumn is having Friday pints with other politicos,
civil servants, and hacks around the drinking dens of Baggot Street and Merrion Square. Great for the gossip.

Anyways, Murphy has also broken ties with the Workers International HQ in London. These were the men (all men) who issued the majority of socialist dogma to the socialist party in Ireland. He’s more like Richard Boyd Barrett these days in wanting a communist state that comes about via a local revolution as opposed to a pan-European uprising.

Heady stuff. Much of the gossip this evening is about the whereabouts of another man who ended up having his masters in London. Where is Grizzly Adams?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Says Mr. No credibility.
Noonan had no input in our bail out program? I love the Fine Gaeler idea that their lads did nothing, yet pulled us back from the brink. Pick one Blanch.

Not calling you a Fine Gaeler, just commenting on your comment jumping in to protect and defend Noonan.

Matt, I know you love revisionist history, but our bank bailout was in 2008 and it was Lenihan and Cowen who were responsible for it, calling it the cheapest bailout in history.

Noonan was responsible for starting to put the pieces back together after Lenihan and Cowen broke the country.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Matt, I know you love revisionist history, but our bank bailout was in 2008 and it was Lenihan and Cowen who were responsible for it, calling it the cheapest bailout in history.

Noonan was responsible for starting to put the pieces back together after Lenihan and Cowen broke the country.

Blanch, tripped yourself up on your own revisionism, (sh*te talk).

Here's me:

Michael Noonan made a personal finances killing while we were in the throws of 'taking one for the team' as he put it. Report today about the cost of the bank bail out, the servicing of it coming between 1.1 and 1.3 Billion a year. The over all cost having currently risen to 41.7 Billion. It seems even the architects of our misfortune fare well.

Can you point out where I say Noonan put the bail outs in motion or was responsible for the bailouts?
So Noonan had no input on the states finances during austerity? Or do you think by the time Enda 'man with two pints' Kenny and Michael 'inappropriate behaviour' Noonan came in it was all over bar the shouting?
When defending Fine Gael at least be consistent. So they sat on their hands after gaining power? I know Kenny reneged on all his 'change the way we do business' but he did some stuff like create a quango and Noonan did a solid for Dinny.
They tried to put the sh*t show back as it was. We can agree on that much.

Now back to the waster Murphy before you sh*t the bed again.

padd b1975

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

RISE has lost one of its first members already - seems there has been a disagreement about how the name clashes with an addiction service and a short-lived group of rural protestors who obviously paid more money for placement on the google search rankings.

The revolution is just around the corner, comrades.

Mick Barry popped up on The Late Debate this week.
He refused to say if his version of the socialist party would put up a candidate against Murphy.
My guess is they will, they won't be able to help themselves.

It happened before of course in the European elections when RBB's version of the socialist party insisted on putting Bríd Smith up against Murphy and obviously split the vote.

That's just how these clowns roll.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Blanch, tripped yourself up on your own revisionism, (sh*te talk).

Here's me:



Can you point out where I say Noonan put the bail outs in motion or was responsible for the bailouts?
So Noonan had no input on the states finances during austerity? Or do you think by the time Enda 'man with two pints' Kenny and Michael 'inappropriate behaviour' Noonan came in it was all over bar the shouting?
When defending Fine Gael at least be consistent. So they sat on their hands after gaining power? I know Kenny reneged on all his 'change the way we do business' but he did some stuff like create a quango and Noonan did a solid for Dinny.
They tried to put the sh*t show back as it was. We can agree on that much.

Now back to the waster Murphy before you sh*t the bed again.

You say Noonan made a financial killing and then say that the architects of our misfortune fare well.

Now at least one part of that statement is untrue. Cowen and Lenihan were the architects of the bailout.

Ruraldweller56

I feel this thread is going off topic.

I'll try and realign it.

Unmitigated 'free market' or 'capitalism' has failed this country. It has, as of the bank bailout in 2008. No matter what type of spin you want to put on it.

Yet the majority of us live reasonably comfortable lives. The overwhelming majority of us who want to get on with things do. It's not always easy. I've been through the social welfare myself and emigration during those times. But I'm here. And doing OK.

An Irish economy, tailored to our own needs as a nation is needed. Not globalist ideas as per rabid capitalism (the EU) or communist rubbish.

We're more than capable of standing on our own feet. Despite all the crap I believe we're good people.

What's been a proven failure worldwide is Murphy economics. Everyone gets something for nothing. 10 people stood around a hole with a shovel being paid to do it for the sake of it when one would do.

mzungu

padd b1975 wrote: »

Mick Barry popped up on The Late Debate this week.
He refused to say if his version of the socialist party would put up a candidate against Murphy.
My guess is they will, they won't be able to help themselves.

It happened before of course in the European elections when RBB's version of the socialist party insisted on putting Bríd Smith up against Murphy and obviously split the vote.

That's just how these clowns roll.

According to PM, members of his collective will still be running under the Solidarity/People Before Profit banner so it would be unlikely the SP will start putting their candidates up against his.

padd b1975

mzungu wrote: »

According to PM, members of his collective will still be running under the Solidarity/People Before Profit banner so it would be unlikely the SP will start putting their candidates up against his.

So why couldn't he say that?

He said they hadn't decided either way.

Hotblack Desiato

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Unmitigated 'free market' or 'capitalism' has failed this country. It has, as of the bank bailout in 2008. No matter what type of spin you want to put on it.

And your post falls at the first fence. "Unmitigated free market capitalism" would not have bailed out failed banks.

An Irish economy, tailored to our own needs as a nation is needed. Not globalist ideas as per rabid capitalism (the EU) or communist rubbish.

Rabid capitalism, the EU? All I can do in response to that nonsense is laugh.

We're more than capable of standing on our own feet.

We're a net contributor to the EU budget, so in what way are we not standing on our own feet?