RWC 2019 Ireland v Japan Match Thread: Group A - Sat 28th Sep 08:15 Shizuoka

snotboogie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FFS, Japan beat SA in the last World Cup, SA still finished top of the group in a World Cup where England (at home) didn't get out of their group.

The naysaying depressants need to take a chill pill.

I think it's a very different loss. South Africa genuinely didn't take Japan seriously, Ireland did and got outplayed. The attritional Schmidtball, one out runners, little to no risk taking, "play the percentages" rugby doesn't work against teams who actually look to get the head up, move the ball and play some rugby. It's either a one out runner or a crossfield kick, how many times did we pass the ball more than twice in a phase of play? Two times out of two now when Schmidt has faced a real challenge from a low ranking non six nations team in a World Cup he has been absolutely tonked.

dublinman1990

Ireland's loss against Japan is the top story on RTÉ's lunchtime news today.

flatface

fryup wrote: »

big difference, that was a one off test match...no points at risk

we had no chance of scoring from that area of the pitch, he did the right thing (imo)

Totally. No question about it. If you have nothing to lose you go for it but in this case it was worth keeping the point. It may prove important

Cork Boy 53

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's a big shock.

We beat the toughest opponent in the softest group, only to lose to Japan.

Team Ireland will not be a happy place right now.

Today proved that Scotland were not the toughest opponent. I think that Japan will win their remaining matches and top the pool while Ireland, Scotland and Samoa will fight it out for second place.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Losing? I would say we have won more than we lost over 13 years.

Loosing when we get arrogant and full of ourselves.

Its been our downfall in every world cup

is_that_so

lawred2 wrote: »

Again the pragmatic on paper analysis is spot on...

However they'll be both physically and mentally weakened by that result. It won't be just washed away as a 'pool match'..

I think the review will show up the errors and the poor decision making on our part. Two kickable penalties were spurned in favour of attrition and energy loss. We were not smart in how we approached the game. Good for 20m and then little else. As for Japan, it's hard to know. They now have a huge opportunity to progress. They must believe they can account for Samoa so it's all one one game for themselves and Scotland.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Loosing when we get arrogant and full of ourselves.

Its been our downfall in every world cup

'We', the Irish management fully respected that Japanese team, with the team we fielded.

We were 12 - 3 up and looking good and took the foot off the pedal...something thousands of teams have done and paid the price.

I never got a sniff of arrogance in our camp...not one bit.

walshb

VinLieger wrote: »

Loosing when we get arrogant and full of ourselves.

Its been our downfall in every world cup

Get off the stage...

Full of themselves...? Who, exactly? Maybe it’s some of the public?

Is that what you saw on the pitch today?

I saw 15 lads breaking their balls to try and win, and keep the likes of you somewhat happy..

Chivito550

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ireland's loss against Japan is the top story on RTÉ's lunchtime news today.

Hopefully Thomas Barr changes that this afternoon.

VinLieger

walshb wrote: »

Get off the stage...

Full of themselves...? Who, exactly? Maybe it’s some of the public?

Is that what you saw on the pitch today?

I saw 15 lads breaking their balls to try and win, and keep the likes of you somewhat happy..

I saw a team who lost their head and werent prepared for the style and type of game their opposition were playing.

And when i say full of themselves i dont believe they think they are the best team in the world but they deffinitely did not treat Japan with the obvious respect they deserve when preparing for the game.

MadYaker

VinLieger wrote: »

Loosing when we get arrogant and full of ourselves.

Its been our downfall in every world cup

Who’s arrogant and full of themselves? You got any examples of players behaving this way?

flatface

VinLieger wrote: »

Loosing when we get arrogant and full of ourselves.

Its been our downfall in every world cup

Arrogant, really? The team selection showed respect not arrogance. We loose when we perform worse than the opposition. We were favorites for good reason. They had a smaller chance than us of winning, but they took it. That’s sport.
I’m upset about the loss too, disappointed especially in the missed opportunities during the game to turn things around. It would be good if the media and fans kept a reasonable head on and didn’t explode with praise and anger with every single win or loss.

VinLieger

MadYaker wrote: »

Who’s arrogant and full of themselves? You got any examples of players behaving this way?

You know full well i mean and arrogant attitude towards their approach to the game, god people are so touchy about a tiny bit of valid criticism

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

When you are meant to be the best team in the world, conditions shouldn't matter.
No point saying Japan were up for it and passionate, why weren't we?

Despite what the rankings might say, Ireland aren't the best team in the world. They were last year, but definitely not anymore. Still in the top 3 or so, though.

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

ive already asked this...

if the officiating was fair and just, do you think ireland would have won?

I wouldn't say the officiating was unfair or unjust.

Was one side constantly pinged for entering the ruck from the side, but the other not?
Was one side constantly pinged for illegally winning the ball at the ruck, while the other side constantly got away with it?
Was one side constantly pinged for offside, while the other team was always offside, but never penalised?

The answer is no.

Cork Boy 53

Chivito550 wrote: »

Hopefully Thomas Barr changes that this afternoon.

The rugby result will be the top sports story of the weekend no matter what happens elsewhere.

irishbucsfan

Basil3 wrote: »

Despite what the rankings might say, Ireland aren't the best team in the world. They were last year, but definitely not anymore. Still in the top 3 or so, though.

We weren't even ranked number 1 this morning!

VinLieger

Some people take even the slightest criticism of the team as an attack on themselves personally, step back and get some perspective ffs, theres more to life than the rugby

beggars_bush

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'We', the Irish management fully respected that Japanese team, with the team we fielded.

We were 12 - 3 up and looking good and took the foot off the pedal...something thousands of teams have done and paid the price.

I never got a sniff of arrogance in our camp...not one bit.

Players failed to keep doing the basics well
Allowed Japan get a run at us
Some poor officiating

walshb

VinLieger wrote: »

I saw a team who lost their head and werent prepared for the style and type of game their opposition were playing.

And when i say full of themselves i dont believe they think they are the best team in the world but they deffinitely did not treat Japan with the obvious respect they deserve when preparing for the game.

It’s your attitude that is full of it and arrogant, and representative of many who watch Ireland. This “we have a right to win,” and if we don’t, just lay into the team with the slagging..

You’re Not at all considering the Japanese here. They beat us, and rather than praise them, you are slating us. This is the arrogance!

Ireland team don’t have this arrogant and cocky “we have a right to win” attitude at all..

They simply prepare, show up, give it their all, and win and lose..

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

You know full well i mean and arrogant attitude towards their approach to the game, god people are so touchy about a tiny bit of valid criticism

Were was the arrogance in the 'approach'? If not getting systems right is 'arrogance' then every losing team ever has been arrogant.

Podge_irl

VinLieger wrote: »

Some people take even the slightest criticism of the team as an attack on themselves personally, step back and get some perspective ffs, theres more to life than the rugby

“They’re arrogant and their hubris has been their downfall” is not “slight criticism” - it is completely made up nonsense based off nothing whatsoever to get a dig in.

Ireland lost because their breakdown work was poor, they got slow call and Japan’ defensive line was constantly in their face. Japan kept the ball well and dominated possession and after running into a decent lead we let them get back into it and struggled to regather our shape. It happens. If people want to actually contribute some valid criticism, and there is plenty to go around, it would help to ground it in facts and reality and not wild, sweeping pejoratives.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

It’s your attitude that is full of it and arrogant, and representative of many who watch Ireland. This “we have a right to win,” and if we don’t, just lay into the team with the slagging..

You’re Not at all considering the Japanese here. They beat us, and rather than praise them, you are slating us. This is the arrogance!

Ireland team don’t have this arrogant and cocky “we have a right to win” attitude at all..

They simply prepare, show up, give it their all, and win and lose..

The only arrogance I thought was giving up a pretty easy 3 points to do a kick out wide to Earls. It's not like he was completely open and it was a banker.

fryup

no arrogance from the team.....but from the media and certain aspects of the fanbase (D4 heads) there is,

talk of QF's and SF's before we even get out of the group is irritating, its like that every 4 years tbh

irishbucsfan

Basil3 wrote: »

The only arrogance I thought was giving up a pretty easy 3 points to do a kick out wide to Earls. It's not like he was completely open and it was a banker.

The attacking kicking made complete sense to me and we should have done far more of it imo

FrancieBrady

fryup wrote: »

no arrogance from the team.....but from the media and certain aspects of the fanbase (D4 heads) there is,

talk of QF's and SF's before we even get out of the group is irritating, its like that every 4 years tbh

We can still talk of that positively though. We dropped a game and got a bonus point. It is still up to the others to send us home. We win our games we go through.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The attacking kicking made complete sense to me and we should have done far more of it imo

Definitely, but I wouldn't be giving up 3 points to put a wide kick out to Earls.

walshb

fryup wrote: »

no arrogance from the team.....but from the media and certain aspects of the fanbase (D4 heads) there is,

talk of QF's and SF's before we even get out of the group is irritating, its like that every 4 years tbh

No issue with talks of QFs...

Yes, anyone spouting about semi finals etc is just a bit premature..

Hoping and expecting and doing are three separate things.

I kind of expect(ed) we make QFs stage as group winners. Now I hope we do..

Nothing arrogant, just educated views...

And I certainly wouldn’t be slating the team should we not make QF stage..

NIMAN

thebaz wrote: »

Conditions do matter - did you ever play in high humidity and heat , much different to an Irish autumn.

Why no talk about conditions when we waltzed past Scotland?

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We can still talk of that positively though. We dropped a game and got a bonus point. It is still up to the others to send us home. We win our games we go through.

Do you think we’ll beat S. Africa or NZ?

I don’t and I didn’t before this mornings match. It just cemented my opinion.

NIMAN

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ireland's loss against Japan is the top story on RTs lunchtime news today.

At least its a break from Brexit.

tayto lover

walshb wrote: »

No issue with talks of QFs...

Yes, anyone spouting about semi finals etc is just a bit premature..

Hoping and expecting and doing are three separate things.

I kind of expect(ed) we make QFs stage as group winners. Now I hope we do..

Nothing arrogant, just educated views...

And I certainly wouldn’t be slating the team should we not make QF stage..

Wouldn’t be great for a team ranked No.1 just weeks ago.

NIMAN

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We weren't even ranked number 1 this morning!

But you'd think we would be good enough to manage a point in an entire half of play against a much lower ranked team, wouldn't you?

walshb

tayto lover wrote: »

Wouldn’t be great for a team ranked No.1 just weeks ago.

Seriously, anyone taking note of the ranking are not understanding the finer points...

One on one match 15 v 15, and a fair few teams all capable of beating each other, and yes, the odd outsider/underdog can also pull off the upset(s).

eclipsechaser

VinLieger wrote: »

Some people take even the slightest criticism of the team as an attack on themselves personally, step back and get some perspective ffs, theres more to life than the rugby

You said that we lost because we were arrogant and full of ourselves. When someone asked you to give an example of someone being arrogant, you've accused the poster of not being able to take criticism.

Then you've put up a separate post saying posters can't take criticism. I only see one person being touchy and it isn't the person asking for evidence of a claim.

nacho libre

Another World Cup, more excuses offered.... I wonder what Neil Francis has to say now after his last couple of articles Being as humble as he is,no doubt he will say he got it wrong. We are well on course for another quarter final exit.

tayto lover

walshb wrote: »

Seriously, anyone taking note of the ranking are not understanding the finer points...

One on one match 15 v 15, and a fair few teams all capable of beating each other, and yes, the odd outsider/underdog can also pull off the upset(s).

The media, the bookies and a lot of “superior” posters on here must not have appreciated the finer points either then.

Stheno

NIMAN wrote: »

Why no talk about conditions when we waltzed past Scotland?

It was pissing rain

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think we’ll beat S. Africa or NZ?

I don’t and I didn’t before this mornings match. It just cemented my opinion.

Yes, I always did think we could beat either if we got things working right.

Less confident now. But then I was always always aware of teams like Japan catching us out.
Always aware too that this is the 'joys' of a tournament and we have yet to see a lot of stuff play out.
We are still front and centre and the goal is still very much attainable and in our own hands.
SA lost to Japan in 2015 and still only lost by 2 to the AB's in the semi final.

walshb

tayto lover wrote: »

The media, the bookies and a lot of “superior” posters on here must not have appreciated the finer points either then.

Why?

We were/are ranked number 1...

We took note of this. Big deal. Felt pride, only natural...even celebrated it, again, only natural...

Number 1s in any discipline sometimes lose...

That’s all that happened here today...the ridiculous OTT looking for blame on the loss, I don’t get it...added to the hostile crowd of anti Irish rugby on using the loss to slag the team...

Bob Harris

nacho libre wrote: »

Another World Cup, more excuses offered.... I wonder what Neil Francis has to say now after his last couple of articles Being as humble as he is,no doubt he will say he got it wrong. We are well on course for another quarter final exit.

Aul Frano thought we'd score 40-50 points today. For such an experienced rugby person that was very naïve and was never going to happen.

duskyjoe

Japan did to us, what we did to Scotland . Abject humiliation . We are only fooling ourselves now re the big prize, we are not even st the starting blocks. Samoa will be licking their lips. Well done to Japan today, the weather , the ref , the angle of the sun wasn’t to blame , you just beat us off the park.

tayto lover

walshb wrote: »

Why?

We were/are ranked number 1...

We took note of this. Big deal. Felt pride, only natural...even celebrated it, again, only natural...

Number 1s in any discipline sometimes lose...

That’s all that happened here today...the ridiculous OTT looking for blame on the loss, I don’t get it...added to the hostile crowd of anti Irish rugby on using the loss to slag the team...

Most of the criticism seems to be aimed at more at posters and the media than the actual team though. I think the team and management got off rather lightly as neither did themselves justice.

fiveleavesleft

Fantastic result, great to see Japan do us over.

Bob Harris

tayto lover wrote: »

Most of the criticism seems to be aimed at more at posters and the media than the actual team though. I think the team and management got off rather lightly as neither did themselves justice.

I agree that the media got carried away after Scotland. We were near enough crowned champions because of a good performance against a very average side.
Could feasibly be coming home after the group stage now.

Podge_irl

Bob Harris wrote: »

I agree that the media got carried away after Scotland. We were near enough crowned champions because of a good performance against a very average side.
Could feasibly be coming home after the group stage now.

Where? Please cite examples.

Portsalon

Portsalon wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

Presumably we can expect Joe Schmuck to whinge about Angus's reffing; not today, but when he briefs the embedded Irish rugby journo-fans in private over the next couple of days. Not that they - or the one-eyed part-time rugby fans - will need much of an incentive to blame anyone except the sterile coaching staff or over-coached players.

Unsurprisingly, Gerry Thornley agrees with me!

“privately, Schmidt and the Irish camp will have more grievances about the performance of Angus Gardner than they let on here, the Irish head coach having recalled perceived injustices from the last time the Australian refereed Ireland, against Wales in March, two days before this game."


Ties in with Joe's post match press conference when as soon as he had paid the mandatory tribute to Japan, he started whinging about the referee.

I used to like, respect and admire Joe S, but over the past couple of years he has become a non-stop whinger. The sooner he returns to the land of the long white moan, the better.

Portsalon

NIMAN wrote: »

But you'd think we would be good enough to manage a point in an entire half of play against a much lower ranked team, wouldn't you?

Well, we could have scored a second half penalty, but Rory Best decided that we'd be better off kicking for the corner so he could display his outstanding lineout throwing technique!

kuang1

Portsalon wrote: »

I used to like, respect and admire Joe S.

Well I'll call BS right there.

OnTheCouch

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Today proved that Scotland were not the toughest opponent. I think that Japan will win their remaining matches and top the pool while Ireland, Scotland and Samoa will fight it out for second place.

Scotland could easily beat Japan. For one, they are a lot better than they showed against Ireland and Japan probably aren't as good as they appeared today. In a lot of ways, Japan had everything in their favour earlier, home advantage, absolutely no pressure, the high humidity, not having particularly sparkled in their first game, one or two contentious refereeing decisions going their way etc.

Plus as much as I think Ireland did not in the slightest disrespect Japan, it is fair to say that to some degree they were complacent. Perhaps not all the players, but collectively yes, as much as Japan played well, Ireland just looked not that focused at times.

Even when you consider that the management attempts to always ensure players' heads are in the right place for a game, when you take all the above factors into consideration, plus the fact that Ireland had never lost to Japan before, this is a huge factor which hasn't been mentioned much in my opinion, the "we have never lost to you , why would we start today?' mentality can easily set in.

Samoa could also cause an upset as well, so anyone who thinks Japan will stroll through their remaining fixtures may be mistaken in the next few weeks.

Portsalon

kuang1 wrote: »

Well I'll call BS right there.

I'll allow you a fool's pardon on that one!

Perhaps if I had prefaced my comment with the words "As a long-time Leinster supporter ................." you would have believed the rest of it!