Do you believe in God?

keano_afc

Absolutely. Honestly cant imagine my life any other way.

_Brian

Sometimes, sort of, I think.

Humans are complex creatures and go through many phases in their lives.

When your young and healthy you view religions with a correct amount of scepticism.

However as we age and our actual mortality is brought into clearer focus we search for something to give meaning to existence, yes, yes younger people reading that are sniggering believing they won’t. But the vast majority of humans on their final throw of the dice view things differently, nearly everything differently.
Part of that is the possibility of the existence of something bigger that connects things and gives meaning to it all.

I can tell you with the certainty of experience that when your sitting at the moment before the consultant says whether you have a terminal issue or not, in your head you will be pleading to someone or something that the result is good or that the end is quick and easy.

It’s hard wired into our species, one just has to look at the plethora of religions that literally span the globe, that’s not accidental.

So ask yourself not if there is or is not a god, but more to the point when your life and mental fortitude will be pushed to the stage when you really hope there is a god and that he/she/it hears and answers your call, that stage will come to us all, some sooner and for some later, but nearly all of us will face it and the vast majority make the call for help.

smacl

_Brian wrote: »

I can tell you with the certainty of experience that when your sitting at the moment before the consultant says whether you have a terminal issue or not, in your head you will be pleading to someone or something that the result is good or that the end is quick and easy.

It’s hard wired into our species, one just has to look at the plethora of religions that literally span the globe, that’s not accidental.

So ask yourself not if there is or is not a god, but more to the point when your life and mental fortitude will be pushed to the stage when you really hope there is a god and that he/she/it hears and answers your call, that stage will come to us all, some sooner and for some later, but nearly all of us will face it and the vast majority make the call for help.

With respect, that's your experience but also getting that bit older and having been through some traumatic events in recent years myself, consideration of a god has never entered into it. I suspect a lot of people who were raised religious will fall back on religion in later years, but if like me you've never been religious this isn't the case.

smacl

LuasSimon wrote: »

I’m not sure what happens in the afterlife but I like many get great comfort out of my faith , saying a few prayers every Saturday night and praying for whatever intentions are on mine or my family and friends radar at the time . Been part of a community each week and even simple peace be with you handshakes with other parishioners each week brings a sense of belonging and strengthens been part of a community . It’s estimated locally 30-40% attend mass weekly which ain’t bad these days . I find the whole thing therapeutic and good for the head as opposed to sitting on the couch at home .

All beliefs aside, I can certainly appreciate the communal aspect of religion and the benefits it provides on that basis.

Snow Garden

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

I know God doesn’t exist, but I try to live like he does.

How does God live? Do you turn people into pillars of salt for example?

Snow Garden

LuasSimon wrote: »

It’s estimated locally 30-40% attend mass weekly which ain’t bad these days . I find the whole thing therapeutic and good for the head as opposed to sitting on the couch at home .

Is that what you think non mass goers do on a Sunday morning? I find the complete opposite.

Boom_Bap

I Am God.

railer201

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I Am God.

Nothing quite like a boards moderator getting ahead of itself.

Boom_Bap

railer201 wrote: »

Nothing quite like a boards moderator getting ahead of itself.

I was God way before being a mod. I shall smite thee.

dvdman1

A lot of believers seem to believe based on - What they i get out of it ......at church/mosque then they are total saints, then the rest of the time total A-holes.

railer201

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I was God way before being a mod. I shall smite thee.

Stick around - there's a few dissatisfied punters in here who would like a chat with you !

railer201

dvdman1 wrote: »

A lot of believers seem to believe based on - What they i get out of it ......at church/mosque then they are total saints, then the rest of the time total A-holes.

.......and then we get to go to heaven - it just ain't fair Joe !

Dr. Bre

God is a DJ

Snow Garden

Necro wrote: »

It's an interesting question OP.

I'm not particularly religious anymore (youth, parents blah de blah, same as most kids from the 80s in Ireland probably). I don't really think I believe in God, or a God, or 70 gazillion Gods or whatever.

Though maybe I do? I kind of want to believe that there's something after death, that it isn't just the end and we're wormfood and that's it.

For me the one comforting part of religion is the insistence that John or Mary or in my case my departed close ones have gone on to paradise, or an afterlife, or something.

I kinda like that idea, and it's the one part that EVEN if it's complete and utter horsecrap, it gives comfort to a lot of people whilst they try and deal with the grief and loss of their loved ones.

And look, even if it's a total crock of sh1t, does it really matter? It's not like you can come back and tell us all about it.

You are right. Humans need religion. They need religion in their lives to fill the vacuum of not knowing where we came from or where we go after death. I guess many organisations and people have abused that need to know.

Boom_Bap

Dr. Bre wrote: »

God is a DJ

I dabbled in the past

Mango Joe

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I'd like to think I do. Light candles in a church for people that have passed away in my life. And I certainly identify as an Irish Catholic for ethnicity purposes.

Having said that, I'm firmly of the belief that when you die you're absolutely gone. If an afterlife does exist, it makes no sense how anyone would actually know what it's like there.

The church have been responsible for the most heinous crimes against individuals since the state got independence. And suicide bombers are mostly influenced by religion to carry out what they do.

I think I believe in God, but not in religion, while also thinking an afterlife doesn't exist.

To a large degree all of Humankind (not all individual people, just a sufficiently large percentage of the whole) have a natural inclination towards finding comfort and assurance in the principle that there is some benign higher power looking down on them benevolently from above.

The burden of proof attached to this statement can, I believe be very comfortably met by simply pointing out that every societal gathering on the Planet has independently found some form of Deity and begun to worship it.

This innate tendency within the human being has served to beget hundreds of diverse religions everywhere. These religions grow from this common seed and then become massive bureaucratic entities which have more in common with Global Business Corporations than promoters of decent moral values and saviours of souls.

Crucially it has been demonstrated time and again that these organisations will always seek to protect their own 'staff' and interests ahead of the victims of their endemic sexual, physical, emotional and monetary abuses.

We're not living in the dark ages anymore people, in my view the religious among us are now indefensible in their selfish outlook as they explain away the Churches every sin in order to continue blindly with their own personal religious indulgences.

Ignorance is simply not an excuse any more.

Thelonious Monk

I couldnt take anyone seriously who believed in such nonsense tbh

igCorcaigh

Having a belief in one imaginary thing can be a slippery slope to all kinds of dangerous nonsense. Even if it seems benign at first.

It's good to be open minded, but a bit of common sense goes a long way.

I voted No.

Zubeneschamali

Mango Joe wrote: »

To a large degree all of Humankind (not all individual people, just a sufficiently large percentage of the whole) have a natural inclination towards finding comfort and assurance in the principle that there is some benign higher power looking down on them benevolently from above..

Not saying you're wrong, but I am certainly not one of those people. As a child, I used to believe in God the way I believed in Santa Claus or Australia. I had never seen any of them, but people I had reason to trust told me they existed, and there were lots of books and pictures and films about them.

I later decided the adults were right about Australia, wrong about God and kidding about Santy.

But even when I believed God existed, I now realize I wasn't actually religious. I thought his existence was a fact like the existence of the Moon, but religious people don't really seem to believe he exists that way, they have a special version of belief for God's existence which is very peculiar, completely different from belief in the existence of dragons or sea serpents or wombats.

Marhay70

Mankind's inability to contemplate the unknown led to the invention of God to explain it. From a very young age we are taught that God is all seeing, all knowing and ever present therefore it is a natural reaction to fall back on God when things go belly up.
From earliest times God was associated with the most powerful and unexplainable things like the sun, moon, planets,wind water etc. These were the things that controlled your existence and could take it away in the blink of an eye, therefore they commanded respect and awe. Gradually this respect and awe developed into worship and adoration. The ancients would carry their Gods into battle with them and whichever side won, their God would be considered more powerful on the day. This has gradually progressed into modern religion to the exten that up until relatively modern times, wars and conquests were in the name of the various Gods. Even the spread of Christianity is attributed to that being the particular God responsible for a victory on a particular day. If it had been the next day then half the world could be Jovians or Neptunites or whatever.

smacl

Mango Joe wrote: »

To a large degree all of Humankind (not all individual people, just a sufficiently large percentage of the whole) have a natural inclination towards finding comfort and assurance in the principle that there is some benign higher power looking down on them benevolently from above.

Not so sure it is the comfort of some benign higher power or simply a fear of death that involves termination of the conscious self. The promise of an afterlife for the chosen few is a pretty big carrot where every true believer knows in their own mind that they number among that chosen few and the various multitude of other heathens and sinners will burn.

Zubeneschamali

smacl wrote: »

Not so sure it is the comfort of some benign higher power or simply a fear of death that involves termination of the conscious self. .

This is a rather Christianity based view - Buddhists don't believe in a benign higher power, and many think the point of living well is to escape from afterlives.

ToddyDoody

The real question is does God believe in you.

smacl

ToddyDoody wrote: »

The real question is does God believe in you.

Or as Peter Green put it

Now, when I talked to God, I knew He'd understand
He said, "Stick by my side and I'll be your guiding hand
But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czt215Sjoa0

Zubeneschamali

Or Paul Simon:

Some people say Jesus that's their ace in the hole
I never met the man so I don't really know
Maybe some Christmas if I'm sick and alone
He will look up my number
Call me on the phone and he'll say
Hey, boy, where you been so long
Don't you know me
I'm your ace in the hole

nozzferrahhtoo

bnt wrote: »

You can see this in the speeches and books of Jordan Peterson: I think he has some good things to say about responsibility etc., so I'm puzzled when he goes on about Bible stories

In fairness he believes paintings of intertwined snakes from our past are actually not paintings of intertwined snakes but evidence that ancient people, through nothing but the use of hallucinogenic drugs, were granted knowledge of the existence of DNA and it's double helix nature.

He also claims that there must be a god because otherwise people could not do art or.... wait for this..... give up cigarettes.

So I am not sure he would be my go to guy on this kind of topic.

_Brian wrote: »

So ask yourself not if there is or is not a god, but more to the point when your life and mental fortitude will be pushed to the stage when you really hope there is a god

Much like the "Atheists in Foxholes" narrative.... or the death bed conversions of atheists into theists..... when I hear people talk like this it just suggests to me that the probability of thinking religiously goes UP in proportion to the amount of stress and duress you are under..... and hence inversely proportionally to how rational and clear thinking you are in a given period.

Which has always made me wonder why theists go on about things like death bed conversions and foxholes. They are literally standing up and saying "Look, the less rational you are capable of being, the more likely you are to believe what I believe!".

Seems a strange things to advertise openly.

Ray Palmer

No I don't and pretty much not bothered by anyone who does. What does bother me is the people who don't understand their beliefs are not fact. Things like saying "God is truth" are just brainwashing mantras. They generally mean nothing.
I remember some guy going on about how homosexuality was wrong because the bible said so. The gay guy talking to him says he doesn't agree. The guy runs to a bible to show him where it says it in the bible so it is wrong. He just couldn't understand that people reject the bible as fact. What is bizzar to me is that people are so selective on their chosen religion picking and choosing what to believe or follow. Follow or don't follow otherwise you are a hypocrite.

igCorcaigh

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

In fairness he believes paintings of intertwined snakes from our past are actually not paintings of intertwined snakes but evidence that ancient people, through nothing but the use of hallucinogenic drugs, were granted knowledge of the existence of DNA and it's double helix nature.

He also claims that there must be a god because otherwise people could not do art or.... wait for this..... give up cigarettes.

So I am not sure he would be my go to guy on this kind of topic.



Much like the "Atheists in Foxholes" narrative.... or the death bed conversions of atheists into theists..... when I hear people talk like this it just suggests to me that the probability of thinking religiously goes UP in proportion to the amount of stress and duress you are under..... and hence inversely proportionally to how rational and clear thinking you are in a given period.

Which has always made me wonder why theists go on about things like death bed conversions and foxholes. They are literally standing up and saying "Look, the less rational you are capable of being, the more likely you are to believe what I believe!".

Seems a strange things to advertise openly.

Well, this is very true. I must confess (!) that I did pray internally when my partner was very ill. It didn't seem to clash with my atheism though. I think the word atheist confuses people.

I also think that a lot of the noise around this debate exists because the god concept is so unclearly defined.

Ive been bluntly faced with a higher power in the middle of a mushroom trip, but after I came down, I didn't rush to mass.

igCorcaigh

Ray Palmer wrote: »

No I don't and pretty much not bothered by anyone who does. What does bother me is the people who don't understand their beliefs are not fact. Things like saying "God is truth" are just brainwashing mantras. They generally mean nothing.
I remember some guy going on about how homosexuality was wrong because the bible said so. The gay guy talking to him says he doesn't agree. The guy runs to a bible to show him where it says it in the bible so it is wrong. He just couldn't understand that people reject the bible as fact. What is bizzar to me is that people are so selective on their chosen religion picking and choosing what to believe or follow. Follow or don't follow otherwise you are a hypocrite.

That attitude seems more political than religious. Well, they've always been entwined anyway.

Ipso

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Well, this is very true. I must confess (!) that I did pray internally when my partner was very ill. It didn't seem to clash with my atheism though. I think the word atheist confuses people.

I also think that a lot of the noise around this debate exists because the god concept is so unclearly defined.

Ive been bluntly faced with a higher power in the middle of a mushroom trip, but after I came down, I didn't rush to mass.

The idea of a non religious person praying when a relative is sick is something that is brought up often, but I find the idea that you have to pray to a loving god to save a child or a person too young to die a bit repulsive really.
Also, does the idea of prayer do away with the notion that god has a plan. Is it not a case that god has a plan until someone prays to him to suggest otherwise?

gormdubhgorm

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Nobody believes in God. If they did believe there was a all knowing being that would judge us at the end for our sins then they would be much better people.

I know God doesn’t exist, but I try to live like he does.

dd973 wrote: »

You know?


Erm, do you f**k. Nobody does. Neither Dawkins or the Pope.

Even Joan Osbourne could not figure out who God is.
She speculated though....

igCorcaigh

Ipso wrote: »

The idea of a non religious person praying when a relative is sick is something that is brought up often, but I find the idea that you have to pray to a loving god to save a child or a person too young to die a bit repulsive really.
Also, does the idea of prayer do away with the notion that god has a plan. Is it not a case that god has a plan until someone prays to him to suggest otherwise?

Nothing like that for me.
More of an act of desperation.
Any god would do.

In the end, the meds worked.

AndrewJRenko

LuasSimon wrote: »

I’m not sure what happens in the afterlife but I like many get great comfort out of my faith , saying a few prayers every Saturday night and praying for whatever intentions are on mine or my family and friends radar at the time . Been part of a community each week and even simple peace be with you handshakes with other parishioners each week brings a sense of belonging and strengthens been part of a community . It’s estimated locally 30-40% attend mass weekly which ain’t bad these days . I find the whole thing therapeutic and good for the head as opposed to sitting on the couch at home .

Where does that estimate come from?


I don't get the 'praying for good intentions' thing. Is there really a supreme being who dishes out the goodies depending on how hard/often you pray or beg? It seems awful needy on his part to me.

railer201

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Where does that estimate come from?


I don't get the 'praying for good intentions' thing. Is there really a supreme being who dishes out the goodies depending on how hard/often you pray or beg? It seems awful needy on his part to me.

You should try it sometime, there may be a few goodies going like hi-viz jackets, helmets or a nice set of lights, or perhaps even a new bike.

Fourier

Necro wrote: »

It's not like you can come back and tell us all about it.

You of all people should know the dead do return! :eek:

Zubeneschamali

railer201 wrote: »

perhaps even a new bike.

I think that's the other old beardy lad, the jolly one.

LuasSimon

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Where does that estimate come from?


I don't get the 'praying for good intentions' thing. Is there really a supreme being who dishes out the goodies depending on how hard/often you pray or beg? It seems awful needy on his part to me.

There’s 1500 living in the parish with circa 5/600 in total attending the 3 masses each Saturday night - Sunday morning . There is no doubt intentions and all that is unproven to put it mildly but rightly or wrongly it gives people hope . Attending mass for a share is also down to tradition , meeting neighbours even and definitely makes people part of a community . People could be doing a lot worse .

Marhay70

LuasSimon wrote: »

There’s 1500 living in the parish with circa 5/600 in total attending the 3 masses each Saturday night - Sunday morning . There is no doubt intentions and all that is unproven to put it mildly but rightly or wrongly it gives people hope . Attending mass for a share is also down to tradition , meeting neighbours even and definitely makes people part of a community . People could be doing a lot worse .

Man, like a lot of species, is a social animal. The same benefits could be gained from any social gathering with a common interest, religion doesn't have to be involved.

igCorcaigh

LuasSimon wrote: »

There’s 1500 living in the parish with circa 5/600 in total attending the 3 masses each Saturday night - Sunday morning . There is no doubt intentions and all that is unproven to put it mildly but rightly or wrongly it gives people hope . Attending mass for a share is also down to tradition , meeting neighbours even and definitely makes people part of a community . People could be doing a lot worse .

True enough, on a local level.
But it doesn't scale well, like most things.

Anyway, there's always the pub.

Zubeneschamali

Marhay70 wrote: »

Man, like a lot of species, is a social animal. The same benefits could be gained from any social gathering with a common interest, religion doesn't have to be involved.

And even for religious social gatherings like Mass, they work just the same if God does not exist.

In fact, given the hundreds of denominations within Christianity, just one among many world religions, we can say that the only reason they all work equally well as social events is that there are no gods involved in any of them.

After all, if the Roman Catholic God was responsible for the benefits of 11:30 Mass in Ballydehob, who is behind the Hindu festival of Kumbh Mela with its millions of participants? The Hajj in Mecca?

MrAbyss

Should be a third category:

Do you suspect there is more to the universe and this may be representative of spiritual concepts outside that of the Middle Eastern Sky Fairy of the Talmud, Bible and Koran?

Once again, you are making the assumption that the Desert Sand God is the only spiritual game in town.

realitykeeper

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Ah here, no you dont. That statement implies you can prove it.

You belive there is a god and afterlife, you dont and cant know there is.

To dismiss belief as not knowing is simply wrong. Certainly in a court of law, evidence is required but just because you cannot produce evidence does not mean you do not know something is true or false. Courts often pass judgements which are wrong because participants cannot prove what they know.

realitykeeper

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and yet manages to get so much of it wrong.

Who or what manages to get so much of what wrong?

4068ac1elhodqr

MrAbyss wrote: »

Should be a third category:

Do you suspect there is more to the universe and this may be representative of spiritual concepts outside that of the Middle Eastern Sky Fairy of the Talmud, Bible and Koran?

Once again, you are making the assumption that the Desert Sand God is the only spiritual game in town.

Or a fourth category: Is there life in the (rather large) Universe, outside of Earth?

A. (Chances are there is).

Much of it may well be considered highly evolved, supremely inteligent, almost 'god-like' in comparision to our primitive planet's inhabitants.

They may have sent an 'agent' to the sand lands years ago (the Manhattan of the day), but decided to hold back a while, before attemping to establish any influence again.

realitykeeper

stratowide wrote: »

Ah here..You have to on the whacky baccy there chief.

Now you are being facetious sir whilst I am reality. I know God exists just as I know Satan exists. It is so obvious. This is why it is so important that we separate good and evil. When people ask, does there have to be a right and a wrong? I always reply with an emphatic YES!

the beer revolu

realitykeeper wrote: »

Now you are being facetious sir whilst I am reality. I know God exists just as I know Satan exists. It is so obvious. This is why it is so important that we separate good and evil. When people ask, does there have to be a right and a wrong? I always reply with an emphatic YES!

It's been said before but I'll say it again.
You do not know that god exists. You cannot know that god exists.
You believe it that existence. You may well think that you know but you are deluded in this matter.

I have complete belief that there is no god. I'm am unshaken in this belief. Still, I won't go around saying that I know this to be a fact because it would make me seem lika a bit of a twat.

4068ac1elhodqr

the beer revolu wrote: »

I have complete belief that there is no god. I'm am unshaken in this belief. Still, I won't go around saying that I know this to be a fact because it would make me seem lika a bit of a twat.

Unshaken, without proof?
Sounds like shakey ground.

What about simple probability, or odds for the 'likely possibility' that there is lifeforms somewhere in the Universe, that may be considered 'god-like' (compared to humanity).

corks finest

YESSSSSSSSSS

Zubeneschamali

the beer revolu wrote: »

I won't go around saying that I know this to be a fact because it would make me seem lika a bit of a twat.

Do you know flying unicorns do not exist? Sure. Immortal vampires? Yup. Werewolves? Of course. God? Hang on, I need to write a 100 page philosophy essay about why I can never know the answer to that question.

YFlyer

Francisco Blue Detective wrote: »

Unshaken, without proof?
Sounds like shakey ground.

What about simple probability, or odds for the 'likely possibility' that there is lifeforms somewhere in the Universe, that may be considered 'god-like' (compared to humanity).

What about quantum field at the fountain level of all the laws of nature? Brahman