Teenagers cycling to school

magicbastarder

funny enough, one of the biggest pratfalls i had on the bike while cycling home from school through castleknock was while on the footpath. the reason i was on the footpath was that it was snowing and it was hard to see the kerb while on the road.

PhilOssophy

beauf, you need to be realistic here. That road on which Mount Sackville is located is not safe for 2 cars, in my view it should be 1-way with better cycle lanes but I am sure there is issues with that which would make it unfeasible.
Or should the road be closed to all traffic for the dozen students who would cycle to school if it was?
As magicbasterder has said, this isn't an island in the middle of the Atlantic with nobody else needing to use it.

LeChienMefiant

A dozen students would cycle if they had safe infrastructure? Just a dozen? Realistic?

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

But you're probably right, its because of all the other stuff.

i was probably a little clumsy in how i phrased that, but i was kinda getting at the kids being driven to school anyway, regardless of available options.

Cabaal

PhilOssophy wrote: »

You are missing my point. Some of these schools were built when that was the only other road user.

For the ones built in the last 20-30 years, fair enough they got it wrong.

Try those build since at least the 1940's-1950 onward when cars started to become more common.

If they didn't allow for other road users then that is failure to plan, which is the same problem being experiences with schools being built now!
[EDIT] Not to mention that kids cycling to school was a far more common thing up until around the 1990's and yet no provisions were made for them and their safety.

I see in Kilkenny City for example it has a massive newly extended secondary school with cycle lanes running by it, great at first glance. Until you see its a utter disaster when kids need to use them most as idiots park in them.

Proper Segregated cycle lanes would fix this.

Locally to me the school made no provisions for bikes other then a bike rack, neither did the council and instead cars are parked up on all the footpaths around the school making it dangerous to even walk sometimes. The road is seriously wide and has plenty of space but again failure to plan properly.

beauf

PhilOssophy wrote: »

beauf, you need to be realistic here. That road on which Mount Sackville is located is not safe for 2 cars, in my view it should be 1-way with better cycle lanes but I am sure there is issues with that which would make it unfeasible.
Or should the road be closed to all traffic for the dozen students who would cycle to school if it was?
As magicbasterder has said, this isn't an island in the middle of the Atlantic with nobody else needing to use it.

The issue is not the school. It's not even that road.

That road is part one of the main routes in and out of Dublin 15. You often seepeople cycle it and s huge tailback behind them as there is no room to pass and it's a decent hill so you will need be slow. Lots of people cycle from D15 into town. It's a huge area, a huge catchment.

There been almost no provision for cycling routes in the area. Just random bikes lanes here and there, a bit of paint and no plan and every path disconnected from the next.

Vast amounts of development though. Just none for cycling.

beauf

Tbh I dunno why I reply. it's obvious you know knowing about the area or cycling through it.

You get the same impression about the planner's too.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was probably a little clumsy in how i phrased that, but i was kinda getting at the kids being driven to school anyway, regardless of available options.

But there are no other options. A few walk. There is a school bus. That's it. Which was the point the op made. But you'd be hard pressed to find another school in the area that as limited in its options. It's the exception.

Most of the others in the area are accessible just there's been no thought about making the catchment cycling friendly.

beauf

Cabaal wrote: »

Try those build since at least the 1940's-1950 onward when cars started to become more common.

If they didn't allow for other road users then that is failure to plan, which is the same problem being experiences with schools being built now!

I see in Kilkenny City for example it has a massive newly extended secondary school with cycle lanes running by it, great at first glance. Until you see its a utter disaster when kids need to use them most as idiots park in them.

Proper Segregated cycle lanes would fix this.

Locally to me the school made no provisions for bikes other then a bike rack, neither did the council and instead cars are parked up on all the footpaths around the school making it dangerous to even walk sometimes. The road is seriously wide and has plenty of space but again failure to plan properly.

This is it exactly.

LeChienMefiant

beauf wrote: »

That road is part one of the main routes in and out of Dublin 15. You often seepeople cycle it and s huge tailback behind them as there is no room to pass and it's a decent hill so you will need be slow. Lots of people cycle from D15 into town. It's a huge area, a huge catchment.

Is this the most appropriate route for that traffic? What's wrong with the Navan Road? You're right at least in regard to my own personal knowledge of the area. I'm not familiar with where this traffic is coming from/to and why it needs to be on that narrow road.

magicbastarder

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Is this the most appropriate route for that traffic? What's wrong with the Navan Road?

the problem with the navan road (been a while since i lived in D15, mind) is traffic volume.

traffic from dublin 15 to the city centre has four options, generally; the navan road, blackhorse avenue, the park, or tower road (down into chapelizod).
blackhorse avenue is very narrow in places and very prone to snarl up, but it means that any option is going to be chockablock at rush hour.

if you're a cyclist, none of the options are ideal, but the park at least offers the offroad paths, but then drops you onto the quays.

LeChienMefiant

Traffic congestion on more appropriate routes is not a valid reason to allow single (and to a fewer extent double) occupant private motor cars dominate these narrow routes.

magicbastarder

rather appropriately, i've just gotten off the phone with my father, after having again agreed to disagree on the greenway planned for along the canal through D15.

beauf

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Is this the most appropriate route for that traffic? What's wrong with the Navan Road? You're right at least in regard to my own personal knowledge of the area. I'm not familiar with where this traffic is coming from/to and why it needs to be on that narrow road.

Navan road they reduced from 2~3 lanes down one lane, you'd also have to cross through the worst of D15 traffic to get it. Also very congested.

A lot of it is avoid the bottleneck of Castleknock Village (and other routes) made worse since they allowed a new shopping center bang in the middle of it, and one of the weirdest, unexpected, and confusing, offset set of lights to exit, that I've seen in a long time.

But much of the traffic is not going into city center. Its going south city. So they either do a big loop around to the M50 and the toll, also grid locked. or go this more direct way. Also much of the new development west of Dublin 15, lucan, leixlip, use Strawberry beds and Porterstown road as a rat run, and it all comes out onto this road at some point.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

rather appropriately, i've just gotten off the phone with my father, after having again agreed to disagree on the greenway planned for along the canal through D15.

Well that can't come soon enough.

You'd have to ask why they don't make a greenway from Diswellstown, a cycling bridge across the M50 and/or a cycling track through castleknock college then down whites road into the park.

Then you'd have a great route for cyclists that avoid much of the congested roads out of D15.

Also Since the Govt owns Farmleigh, you'd they could provide a cycling path straight though to Mountsackville even through the school and to the top of Chapelizod, then a cycle path just inside the park wall down to Cunningham road then this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/liffey-bridge-may-link-phoenix-park-to-war-memorial-gardens-1.3580004

Which would allow a lot of connections.

Hrududu

Lots of good advise here. My mine would be to tell them never to assume that someone can see them.

Cabaal

Hrududu wrote: »

Lots of good advise here. My mine would be to tell them never to assume that someone can see them.

...even if they are looking right at you!

Hrududu

Cabaal wrote: »

...even if they are looking right at you!

Lol especially if they are looking right at you “Ah he’s looking this way that’s gra...”

AndrewJRenko

beauf wrote: »

The issue is not the school. It's not even that road.

That road is part one of the main routes in and out of Dublin 15. You often seepeople cycle it and s huge tailback behind them as there is no room to pass and it's a decent hill so you will need be slow.

I'd hazard a guess that if the cyclist wasn't there, there would still be a huge tailback there most of the time.

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

That road is part one of the main routes in and out of Dublin 15. You often seepeople cycle it and s huge tailback behind them as there is no room to pass and it's a decent hill so you will need be slow.

or half the time, fast. i once went down that hill (back in the days when the speed limit was 30mp/h) and there was a garda speed checkpoint at the bottom. my cycle computer - long before the days of GPS - was reading something like 37 or 38mp/h, and as i approached the garda with the hairdryer, he punched the air in encouragement.

magicbastarder

beauf wrote: »

You'd have to ask why they don't make a greenway from Diswellstown, a cycling bridge across the M50 and/or a cycling track through castleknock college then down whites road into the park.

Then you'd have a great route for cyclists that avoid much of the congested roads out of D15.

according to roderic o'gorman's facebook page, as part of fingal coco's capital program 2020-2022:
" €150K provided from Blanch village to Phoenix Park cyclelane (in 2022)"
"€100K allocated to investigating cycling link between Royal and Grand canals. This is a new item that wasn't there before. Could really help with creating safe access to St. Catherine's Park for D15 cyclists and pedestrians."
https://www.facebook.com/RodericOG/posts/10156975524273138?__tn__=H-R

grazer

grazer wrote: »

My 13 & 15 year olds have started cycling to school. 6km of Dublin traffic. My heart is in my mouth. I cycle and drive, so know the dangers very well from both perspectives. I’ve said hi viz and helmets are non negotiable. And we’ve done practice runs.
I suppose i’m looking for reassurance from other parents whose kids cycle in Dublin... and any other tips for safety.

Since my original post, my two teenagers have been cycling 3 or 4 days a week. Hi vis, lights, helmets. My daughter had a close call with a car bumping her rear wheel as she waited to turn right. My son's friend was knocked off his bike, no helmet, serious enough injuries. Lessons being learnt all round. This time of year is the absolute worst for cycling - so hard for drivers to see with rain, reflections and fogged up windows. I was driving behind someone the other night who was driving very slowly in pitch dark, with every window completely fogged up. Absolute madness. Wish all drivers would just take the extra few minutes to defog / defrost. Fingers crossed, and looking forward to brighter spring mornings.

eeeee

Fair play to them keeping it up in this weather.

AndrewJRenko

grazer wrote: »

Since my original post, my two teenagers have been cycling 3 or 4 days a week. Hi vis, lights, helmets. My daughter had a close call with a car bumping her rear wheel as she waited to turn right. My son's friend was knocked off his bike, no helmet, serious enough injuries. Lessons being learnt all round. This time of year is the absolute worst for cycling - so hard for drivers to see with rain, reflections and fogged up windows. I was driving behind someone the other night who was driving very slowly in pitch dark, with every window completely fogged up. Absolute madness. Wish all drivers would just take the extra few minutes to defog / defrost. Fingers crossed, and looking forward to brighter spring mornings.

Can we stop letting drivings off the hook please? Use your fan heater, use your wipers and if you still can't see, just stop driving.

grazer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can we stop letting drivings off the hook please? Use your fan heater, use your wipers and if you still can't see, just stop driving.

I’m not letting drivers (I am one, as well as a cyclist) off the hook. It is much harder to see cyclists and pedestrians on dark wet mornings and evenings. With fans and wipers. And whether they are lit up like Christmas trees or not.

magicbastarder

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Can we stop letting drivings off the hook please? Use your fan heater, use your wipers and if you still can't see, just stop driving.

i don't think (s)he was doing so:

grazer wrote: »

I was driving behind someone the other night who was driving very slowly in pitch dark, with every window completely fogged up. Absolute madness.