More bad news for RTÉ: Young people abandoning TV

nkl12xtw5goz70

In 2018, 15 to 24-year-olds watched a daily average of 70 minutes of television, down from 109 average daily minutes in 2016. That's a 36 percent drop over just three years.

The pace of change in the habits of younger viewers is likely to be alarming to Irish broadcasters, given it comes amid intensifying competition from an array of international video-on-demand companies spending billions on content.

Market leaders Netflix and Amazon Prime Video will soon be joined by new streaming services from Disney, Apple and others, making live television a less attractive option for advertisers trying to reach “Generation Z”.

The end is nigh for RTÉ. No way will they be able to continue forcing people to pay €160 a year for a service they don't want to use. And the fewer people watching TV, the less interested advertisers will be — so ad revenue will drop as well.

alastair

Sebastian Fierce Banking wrote: »

In 2018, 15 to 24-year-olds watched a daily average of 70 minutes of television, down from 109 average daily minutes in 2016. That's a 36 percent drop over just three years.



The end is nigh for RTÉ. No way will they be able to continue forcing people to pay €160 a year for a service they don't want to use. And the fewer people watching TV, the less interested advertisers will be — so ad revenue will drop as well.

Or the previously mooted digital license will replace the TV license. Nothing wrong with public broadcasting service in a subscription streaming world. It still had much merit.

coolisin

Not really a massive shock, at least it shouldn't be.
Younger people would watch Netflix and YouTube on phones over our older generation level of content from RTE.

But RTE is also answerable to broadcasting standards.

Thelonious Monk

Lads, you're all nuts if you think RTE isn't going to survive. They'll simply make anyone with a phone, which is all of us, pay a digital licence fee that might even come out of your wages or scratcher and they'll continue on as is recruiting Lottie Ryan's till the cows come home.

UsBus

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Lads, you're all nuts if you think RTE isn't going to survive. They'll simply make anyone with a phone, which is all of us, pay a digital licence fee that might even come out of your wages or scratcher and they'll continue on as is recruiting Lottie Ryan's till the cows come home.

Agreed, as bad as RTE is at the moment, you would not want a country without a state broadcaster. The moment society starts pulling their only source of news & information from facebook and the likes, we would be doomed. There needs to be a certain standard of information communication maintained throughout the state, where the government are held somewhat to account.
The problem RTE has is the level of remuneration it pays to some of its high profile staff does not appear to offer adequate quality of output when measured alongside UK/SKY etc.

whisky_galore

Strip it down to purely news and current affairs.

Pay per view the pap like home grown 'drama' and weak comedy.
The imports you can easily get elsewhere.

nkl12xtw5goz70

coolisin wrote: »

Not really a massive shock, at least it shouldn't be.

The rate of decline in traditional TV-watching among young people is much larger than expected — and will only increase as Apple, Disney, and others invest billions in new streaming content.

RTE relies on commercial revenue for around €150 million of its circa €340 million annual revenue. That figure will drop as TV viewership figures continue to decline. And the government will find it increasingly difficult to enforce a TV license or digital broadcasting tax on people who get far more value from low-cost subscription services than from a state broadcaster.

Boggles

Sebastian Fierce Banking wrote: »

The rate of decline in traditional TV-watching among young people is much larger than expected — and will only increase as Apple, Disney, and others invest billions in new streaming content.

That not entirely true.

Diluting the market further doesn't automatically transfer to young people or any people taking out multiple subscriptions.

More competition in paid media does not mean the consumer is better off, in fact they are more than likely financially worse off if they want to get their previous fill of content.

They might stomach one or 2 subs, but not a half dozen.

Piracy will pick up the slack.

Pa ElGrande

Sebastian Fierce Banking wrote: »

The rate of decline in traditional TV-watching among young people is much larger than expected — and will only increase as Apple, Disney, and others invest billions in new streaming content.

That does not only impact RTE, its commercial rivals are impacted by this switch off and as their viewership fragments on new platforms their advertisers will follow. In the United States CNN has seen its viewership collapse, it's financial support now comes from cable subscriptions similar to RTE depending on the TV tax.

That demographic change only compounds their legacy of poor management of current resources. Their high cost legacy overheads have eaten up their resources allowing no innovation and ensuring they will die out with their viewers.

Tow

My 3 children (8 to 14) watch no TV. I paid the €160 RTE Salary fee last month and it really pained me. I am the only person who watches it, the kids only use it for the computer games the odd time. I can safely say that TV as we grew up with is dead.

KildareP

Sebastian Fierce Banking wrote: »

The rate of decline in traditional TV-watching among young people is much larger than expected — and will only increase as Apple, Disney, and others invest billions in new streaming content.

RTE relies on commercial revenue for around €150 million of its circa €340 million annual revenue. That figure will drop as TV viewership figures continue to decline. And the government will find it increasingly difficult to enforce a TV license or digital broadcasting tax on people who get far more value from low-cost subscription services than from a state broadcaster.

And yet they are still posting a loss.


€12m a year to run RTÉ 2FM - for what?
It's doing exactly the same as Spin 1038, iRadio, Spin Southwest and Beat are doing except with a nice massive state subsidy. Why?

RTÉ 1 Television - four chat shows going at one stage (Tommy Tiernan Show, Cutting Edge with Brendan O Connor, The Late Late Show, Ray Darcy Show). All basically interviewing each other or each other's guests. What remit does that serve as a PSB to have four chat shows?

RTÉ 2 Television overnight schedule is frequently filled with back-to-back US drama - why?
It can't be cheap to buy-in so why are they scheduling it in the graveyard shift? Why can't they leave it to the likes of Virgin Media or Sky to buy and schedule it at primetime instead?

But the answer to their woes - cut their actual PSB remit like their orchestra, Lyric FM, their Irish programming, their children's production.

Then wonder why no-one finds them or the TV license fee contribution relevant anymore.

It should be split into their PSB arm and their commercial arm.
RTÉ 1 TV, RTÉ jr, RTÉ News Now, RTÉ Radio 1, RTE.ie - 100% funded through the license fee, news, current affairs and investigate journalism. Cut all commercial advertising and sponsorship.

RTÉ Raidio na Gaeltachta, RTÉ Lyric FM and the orchestras - 50:50 joint venture with RTÉ (license fee funded) and Department of Culture, Heritage & the Gaeltacht.

RTÉ 2 TV and RTÉ 2FM - 100% funded through commercial revenue. No license fee subsidy. Cut its cloth to its measure.

RTÉ Networks - should be fully and completed isolated from RTÉ entirely and run as a completely standalone entity.

DAB and all the other add-ons: decide on a case-by-case whether there's a PSB remit (license fee funded) or a commercial remit (commercially funded).

When radios first came out not everyone had one. A bit like computers in the 70's it was thought "Why would everyone need a radio?" Various governments around the world sought to take a taxation of radio ownership. By the time television came along pretty much everyone did have a radio and collecting a license for radio ownership became to onerous for a relatively small sum and it was replaced with a television license . Again, not everyone had a television, and was believed not everyone would need one.


Fast forward to the early 21st century. I'd bet many if not post student apartments or house shares have a TV which might only be plugged into a Playstation but require a license. A license which I assume isn't being paid. Every pub has a big screen for matches. Every school has one for video education. Theres a TV in the canteen in work.



It no longer makes fiscal sense to have a small army of license inspectors going around making sure every home or business has a TV license. If there are 2 license inspectors per county and if they are paid 40,000 a year including mileage then that is a cost of over 2 Million just for inspectors. Approximately 13,000 households have to pay the TV license just to cover the cost of the inspectors. Its madness in this day and age.


I have Netflix and I have Amazon prime. NetFlix is 6.99 a month and Amazon is 9.99 a month. Both get charged to my debit card at the end of each month. I don't have to think about paying it it just happens. I dont have a TV license. The number one reason isn't idealogical, it's simply inconvenience. I don't have a spare 160 to order one online and I don't want to go to a post office one day every month to buy my TV license stamp. Could RTE / An Post who have the contract for collecting the fee, not get with the times and have a subscription website and charge my debit card a tenner every month. OK, 160 / 12 = 13 euros so fine, make it 13 euros a month. For my own convenience, I'd sign up today.



Someone in the Dail said that the TV license is very good value because it equates to 40 cent a day. Part of the problem is, it's not charged that way. Out of my already taxed income, I have to think about it before I can go and spend 160 quid in one go. I think most households are the same. Could the 13 euros not be taken out of my taxable income, negating the need for inspectors, so a saving of 2+ Million.


They are talking of ways to make license evasion impossible. Here's an idea, just make it convenient.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

OK, 160 / 12 = 13 euros so fine, make it 13 euros a month. For my own convenience, I'd sign up today.

Direct Debit Payment Options
There are four payment options.

Annual - One annual instalment of the Full TV Licence fee (€160)
Bi-Annual - Two six monthly instalments of €80
Quarterly - Four equal quarterly instalments of €40
Monthly - Spread the cost of the TV Licence fee over twelve months. Pay €13.33 per month

FrancieBrady

My wife and I are in our 50's and have more or less (bar news and the odd programme) abandoned TV. We pick our own content now on sources such as Netflix and Youtube.
My teenage children have abandoned TV altogether, watch nothing at all on the TV except sport.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

OK, so you can do it monthly but my point about convenience still stands. To get Netflix, I entered my debit card details into the app on my TV once, and thats all I need to do to get its content. It handles the rest.


To set up monthly payment of the TV license you must:

How do I set up a Direct Debit ?
Download a Direct Debit application and mandate forms or request them from your local TV Licence records office

You must then fill in the Direct Debit application and mandate forms and send in the completed forms to your local TV Licence records office.

Your TV Licence Reference number should be on any letter you have received from An Post Licence Services. If you do not have your TV Licence Reference number please leave this part of the form blank.

No, i'm sorry. That is too much effort to pay 160 quid(or 163.96 for the monthly option) I didn't want to part with in the first place. Is it any wonder people evade it?

Sleepy

KildareP wrote: »

And yet they are still posting a loss.


€12m a year to run RTÉ 2FM - for what?
It's doing exactly the same as Spin 1038, iRadio, Spin Southwest and Beat are doing except with a nice massive state subsidy. Why?

RTÉ 1 Television - four chat shows going at one stage (Tommy Tiernan Show, Cutting Edge with Brendan O Connor, The Late Late Show, Ray Darcy Show). All basically interviewing each other or each other's guests. What remit does that serve as a PSB to have four chat shows?

RTÉ 2 Television overnight schedule is frequently filled with back-to-back US drama - why?
It can't be cheap to buy-in so why are they scheduling it in the graveyard shift? Why can't they leave it to the likes of Virgin Media or Sky to buy and schedule it at primetime instead?

But the answer to their woes - cut their actual PSB remit like their orchestra, Lyric FM, their Irish programming, their children's production.

Then wonder why no-one finds them or the TV license fee contribution relevant anymore.

It should be split into their PSB arm and their commercial arm.
RTÉ 1 TV, RTÉ jr, RTÉ News Now, RTÉ Radio 1, RTE.ie - 100% funded through the license fee, news, current affairs and investigate journalism. Cut all commercial advertising and sponsorship.

RTÉ Raidio na Gaeltachta, RTÉ Lyric FM and the orchestras - 50:50 joint venture with RTÉ (license fee funded) and Department of Culture, Heritage & the Gaeltacht.

RTÉ 2 TV and RTÉ 2FM - 100% funded through commercial revenue. No license fee subsidy. Cut its cloth to its measure.

RTÉ Networks - should be fully and completed isolated from RTÉ entirely and run as a completely standalone entity.

DAB and all the other add-ons: decide on a case-by-case whether there's a PSB remit (license fee funded) or a commercial remit (commercially funded).

This is exactly what *SHOULD* happen. It won't though because RTÉ isn't run for the benefit of the public, it, like so many other state agencies, is run for the benefit of it's employees and their unions will make sure any meaningful attempt at reforms like the above will be scuppered so they can continue to grossly overpay their inefficient staff.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

No, i'm sorry. That is too much effort to pay 160 quid(or 163.96 for the monthly option) I didn't want to part with in the first place. Is it any wonder people evade it?

Oh right, why didn't say that in the first place instead of saying you'd pay today if you could pay monthly?

nkl12xtw5goz70

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

That does not only impact RTE, its commercial rivals are impacted by this switch off and as their viewership fragments on new platforms their advertisers will follow.

You are correct that this goes way beyond RTE. But I would argue that RTE, with its public-sector mindset, is positioned more poorly than commercial broadcasters in terms of its ability to respond to the shift.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Oh right, why didn't say that in the first place instead of saying you'd pay today if you could pay monthly?

I don't want to part with that money but I would if it was convenient.

I would pay today if I could pay monthly the same way I pay for my sky, my broadband, my mobile, my Netflix, my Amazon Prime and various others. Read the bit that i quoted.


Download application and mandate forms and print them out(I dont have a printer),fill it out, send it in to the office for a direct debit to bet set up. As I said, too much effort. Would NetFlix have so many customers if you had to download forms and fill them out to set up payment?

machaseh

They should abolish the ridiculously old-fashioned TV license. The state broadcaster RT'e should be funded out of public funds, meaning everybody should pay for it. Yes even people who never watch TV or don't even have a TV (like myself), because the service of having a (hopefully) independent state broadcaster is a service to all of us and not only those who happen to have a TV in the living room. This would also completely eliminate the need for TV license inspectors and chasing people to pay the fee.

In addition, why are there 4 RTE channels? It should be cut down to the bare minimum of providing news announcements. Two channels, one in English and one in Irish is all that should be needed. In fact I don't think anybody even watches the Irish channel other than the hurling/gaa games that are only broadcasted on there, as so incredibly few people have enough irish to even follow it. But I understand that they want to keep an Irish language channel just to give the impression that they are promoting the language.

whisky_galore

machaseh wrote: »

They should abolish the ridiculously old-fashioned TV license. The state broadcaster RT'e should be funded out of public funds, meaning everybody should pay for it. Yes even people who never watch TV or don't even have a TV (like myself), because the service of having a (hopefully) independent state broadcaster is a service to all of us and not only those who happen to have a TV in the living room. This would also completely eliminate the need for TV license inspectors and chasing people to pay the fee.

In addition, why are there 4 RTE channels? It should be cut down to the bare minimum of providing news announcements. Two channels, one in English and one in Irish is all that should be needed. In fact I don't think anybody even watches the Irish channel other than the hurling/gaa games that are only broadcasted on there, as so incredibly few people have enough irish to even follow it. But I understand that they want to keep an Irish language channel just to give the impression that they are promoting the language.

If it wasn't for the subtitles I wouldn't watch TG4 at all.
Good documentaries, the rest...ancient cowboy movies and Country and Irish shyte, as if the mother channel didn't have enough C 'n' I already.

tallaghtfornia

The days of the family sitting down in the evening to watch TV in the is long gone and will not return.

I can recall trawling through the paper to see if there was something good to watch when I come in from Work and then if there was a good film on you'd hope it would be on BBC where you would not have to sit though adds.

We no longer have cable or satellite TV Saorview etc all my Kids watch is YouTube & Netflix and I can dip in and out of Now TV if I want a football match.

And as for RTE the only time we watch it is Christmas time for the Toy Show which I honestly think is rubbish and only for my kids I would not even watch it.

I honestly think if people want to pay to watch this they should be given a choice it sickens me to pay the €160 a year to keep these worthless presenters in jobs.

Idbatterim

also the ability to skip ads must be a factor. Ill gladly wait fifteen - twenty minutes after something I want to watch has started, to avoid the **** ads, selling s**t!

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't want to part with that money but I would if it was convenient.

I would pay today if I could pay monthly the same way I pay for my sky, my broadband, my mobile, my Netflix, my Amazon Prime and various others. Read the bit that i quoted.


Download application and mandate forms and print them out(I dont have a printer),fill it out, send it in to the office for a direct debit to bet set up. As I said, too much effort. Would NetFlix have so many customers if you had to download forms and fill them out to set up payment?

It's a simple form, they will send you one if you like.

Id imagine there is no scenario in which you will pay unless you are forced to.

tallaghtfornia wrote: »

I honestly think if people want to pay to watch this they should be given a choice it sickens me to pay the €160 a year to keep these worthless presenters in jobs.

You do have a choice.

Tow

Another problem is the RTE Player App is crap. It keeps stopping and each time you restart it pays adverts. I tried using it again last week, as SWMBO wanted to watch some fish cooking program from Cork. After 4 or 5 restarts we have up and watched Netflix without a single problem.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

It's a simple form, they will send you one if you like.

Id imagine there is no scenario in which you will pay unless you are forced to.

You can imagine all you want but you are wrong.



Either way you are missing the point. I am not just talking about my own situation, I'm talking about everyone else in the country. You are trying to get ~1 million people to pay 160 euros they don't want to pay. Again I ask the question, why is it not simply taken out of their pre-taxed income? Instead of 13.33 a month for each household, how about 2 euros from every PAYE workers tax?


My sky, my broadband, Electric ireland, I entered my card details and they do the rest. Why is it not simpler?



Between Amazon Prime and Amazon music I pay 240 euros a year to Amazon for their content and I'm happy to do so. As I said, I entered my payment details in once and thats it.


To use your own phrase, it won't become more convenient to pay until they are forced to make it more convenient.

Tow

Tow wrote: »

Another problem is the RTE Player App is crap. It keeps stopping and each time you restart it pays adverts. I tried using it again last week, as SWMBO wanted to watch some fish cooking program from Cork. After 4 or 5 restarts we have up and watched Netflix without a single problem.

Amazing how the ads never fail to play on the RTE app, when the program often does. And if you try to restart it / refresh it, you have to watch the bloody ad again.



I had a TV license for about 3 years. Renewed it in November 2008 for another year. Emmigrated in May 2009. Could no longer watch things on the RTE player because I wasn't in Ireland, having paid for the license. RTE could make a fortune from an RTE player subscription which you can watch abroad. I have cousins in the US who would gleefully pay a tenner a month to watch Irish content. The diaspora in Australia and Canada would probably pay a few quid to watch GAA or current affairs.



I was able to watch Sky on my phone on the Sky Go app while in China. But couldn't watch RTE. Another trick they are missing.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

You can imagine all you want but you are wrong.
Either way you are missing the point. I am not just talking about my own situation, I'm talking about everyone else in the country. You are trying to get ~1 million people to pay 160 euros they don't want to pay. Again I ask the question, why is it not simply taken out of their pre-taxed income? Instead of 13.33 a month for each household, how about 2 euros from every PAYE workers tax?

Because revenue said no.

Deleted User wrote: »

My sky, my broadband, Electric ireland, I entered my card details and they do the rest. Why is it not simpler?

Between Amazon Prime and Amazon music I pay 240 euros a year to Amazon for their content and I'm happy to do so. As I said, I entered my payment details in once and thats it.

To use your own phrase, it won't become more convenient to pay until they are forced to make it more convenient.

Ah here. You just don't want to pay. You gladly hand over to Sky, Amazon and Netflix.

Your main gripe was that you couldn't pay in installments, you can, either in DD or Stamps.

Also the irony seems to be some what lost on you, complaining about the cost of TV License inspectors on one hand whilst liberally not paying the charge on the other. You are the problem you are giving out about.

It's the law, if you use it pay it, it's a slight pain in the hole having to tax a car for the first time, but once you do you can do it online.

It wasn't convenient for me is not an excuse that will be tolerated if you were pulled over.

Tow

Deleted User wrote: »

The diaspora in Australia and Canada would probably pay a few quid to watch GAA or current affairs. I was able to watch Sky on my phone on the Sky Go app while in China. But couldn't watch RTE. Another trick they are missing.

A basic trick, which I believe the BBC plan on introducing is to require the TV Licence number be entered into the app. This is not rocket science and would allow them to stop geoblocking the app. A few basic rules would stop it been abused, such a limit on one concurrent user outside Ireland and say ~3 concurrent users per licence number. Of course, as the app is unusable this is moot.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Tow wrote: »

Another problem is the RTE Player App is crap.

The Android version currently has 1.8 stars on the Play Store, out of 5. I don't know any app by any other major media provider that is so poor.

Tow

Sebastian Fierce Banking wrote: »

The Android version currently has 1.8 stars on the Play Store, out of 5. I don't know any app by any other major media provider that is so poor.

It is worse than Revenue's App by 0.2 stars, which is some going!