unacceptable level of irregular social welfare payments

Graces7

Tony EH wrote: »

There's "questioning" aspects of a system and then there's pissing and moaning about it at every single juncture.

One is fine. The other is being a petty and miserable bastard for no real reason other than being a petty miserable bastard.

I've known plenty of mouthy heroes that will bang on about welfare as if it's the worst thing that has ever happened and will continuously hold up what is a tiny, miniscule, fraction of cases to support their "cause", while continually disregarding everything else that doesn't.

To a man, the people that hold those petty views are tiresome, twisted, joyless, individuals that deserve pity more than anything else and their poisonous views on what welfare can provide for some people are worthless in the grand scheme of things.

WOW. just WOW...thank you

Skylinehead

Guy with Range Rover and a load of Beemers complains (again) about social welfare. You're doing grand, stop complaining for once in your life.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

They also hand out dunnes vouchers around christmas which are not supposed to he used for alcohol or cigarettes which any dunnes employee ive ever spoken to said management would often tell them to turn a blind eye to that due to the violent nature of a lot of the recipients being told no when they attempt to spend the majority of the voucher on specifically those things

the christmas bonus they get isnt enough? the E250 v the ten pound in the uk? Are people dying on the streets over there or what? I assume they dont know christmas happens every year and cant budget? See the fact that these people, are appalling with handling my money, isnt my problem...

I know many people on good salaries and they would baulk at what these muppets waste their money on, newest phones, nikes newest, made out in bangladesh for less than a euro, sold in JD sports for a hundred euro, beside the penney's who sourced it from the same factory and sell it for a tenner!

If people are struggling, its because they have had a change in circumstance and we should have a proper system based on what you paid in, not that those on it the most, the abusers are the only comfortable ones.

Idbatterim

Graces7 wrote: »

Who is this WE?

Once again, proof please. Stats? Not just these wild clichés.. .oh and maybe buy yourself a large punchbag? Exercise will help you.. and oh yes; go to your local food bank /meals centre and meet some folk there. Talk to V de Paul.

and as you are claiming that disability benefits are abused, maybe tackle the doctors who assess and sign. It is very very hard to get these benefits.

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/the-mystery-of-disability/

Idbatterim

for the all abuse ericcartman gets here, his views would probably be seen as middle of the road or left wing anywhere else. Mine certainly were in the states!

Its easy to say "ah shure its only twenty billion a year+" plus the interest! Safe to say your not adopting that attitude paying the marginal rate of tax, and if you arent paying that, you're paying SFA into the system. Try saving for a house in Dublin, paying E2500 a month easily and your scumbag neighbours are living there for free, dont even pay LPT! in their "4eva" home, worth over a million euro easily before tax for a worker, if you consider a 500,000 purchase price and 500,000 in interest over 30 years here, that the banks would charge, with their rip off mortgage rates!

ohnonotgmail

Idbatterim wrote: »

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/the-mystery-of-disability/

can you point to the part of that link that says the system is being abused?

Idbatterim

Skylinehead wrote: »

Guy with Range Rover and a load of Beemers complains (again) about social welfare. You're doing grand, stop complaining for once in your life.

who's that aimed at?

Veritas Libertas

With the increase in automation and AI now taking people's jobs(accounting/pilots/drivers/etc..)... isn't the case in the future going to be.. there aren't enough jobs for everyone?

Businesses need consumers just as much as consumers need products. Andrew Yang proposed a universal credit to everyone. Wouldn't this be a bit fairer than what we have currently? (i.e. everyone gets 200€/week no social welfare needed) If you work you get extra on top of it.

Idbatterim

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

can you point to the part of that link that says the system is being abused?

this is the key point! Is it being the definition of abused technically, probably not. Its the same with the welfare system here, its not actually being abused in the technical word, the system is a joke! Its a total piss take, I'd say they go in with a complaint and are cut off mid sentence, by a GP already signing the form. run all those people through the german system, would love to see how many would be deemed "disabled"!

Boggles

Disability is on the rise, they are all blatant scammers.

Or maybe just maybe if you are not a mouth breather, it could be something to do with.

The Irish Hospital Consultants Association has said that one million people are on a waiting list to be seen at an acute hospital.

Speaking at the organisation's annual conference today, its president, Dr Donal O’Hanlon, said almost 570,000 people were waiting to be seen by a consultant.

Too nuanced?

ohnonotgmail

Idbatterim wrote: »

this is the key point! Is it being the definition of abused technically, probably not. Its the same with the welfare system here, its not actually being abused in the technical word, the system is a joke! Its a total piss take, I'd say they go in with a complaint and are cut off mid sentence, by a GP already signing the form. run all those people through the german system, would love to see how many would be deemed "disabled"!

Of course you would say that. it is what you want to be true.

tom1ie

Forgive me if If this has already been brought up, I haven’t bothered to read the whole thread, but You say the elephant in the room is social welfare, and people gaming the state.
Of the 20.6 billion, 8.04 billion is spent on pensions.
We’ve an aging population.
This is the elephant in the room.
https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

weldoninhio

tom1ie wrote: »

Forgive me if If this has already been brought up, I haven’t bothered to read the whole thread, but You say the elephant in the room is social welfare, and people gaming the state.
Of the 20.6 billion, 8.04 billion is spent on pensions.
We’ve an aging population.
This is the elephant in the room.
https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

Ireland has the fastest natural population growth among European countries. The most recent figures show that the crude rate of natural change of population (live births minus deaths per thousand annually) is +6.6. In contrast, the rest of Europe’s population is shrinking, with a figure of -0.8.

Tony EH

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

With the increase in automation and AI now taking people's jobs(accounting/pilots/drivers/etc..)... isn't the case in the future going to be.. there aren't enough jobs for everyone?

Businesses need consumers just as much as consumers need products. Andrew Yang proposed a universal credit to everyone. Wouldn't this be a bit fairer than what we have currently? (i.e. everyone gets 200€/week no social welfare needed) If you work you get extra on top of it.

There aren't enough jobs for everyone NOW.

However, the introduction of UBI won't solve the real problem that societies face and that's this ridiculous strive for greater and greater private profit margins over everything else that neo-Liberalism and neo-conservatism is so desirous of.

The idea of a UBI has been knocking around for decades. Robert Heinlein coined it as a "citizens wage" in the 30's. The problems inherent with it, though, are obvious, in that its introduction alone won't eliminate poverty and any figure will simply become the base level at which a new line of poverty begins. A thousand quid a month may just cover basic living costs for a while, but eventually, goods and services will become unattainable as the greedy owners of those goods and services continually raise their prices.

Plus, these UBI ideas usually go hand in hand with the elimination of the likes of other welfare benefits and social healthcare models too, which means that even more people will be cast out of the net that helps them in those areas. Simply put, if one gets a grand a month and their rent is one and a half grand, then UBI becomes worthless instantly.

The only way that UBI could work is it is under a constant renewal upwards to combat the inevitable rises in prices across a range of basic living standards which, as we already can see, are getting wildly out of control as it is. A basic thing like owning one's home is a pipe dream to the many these days and usually the proponents of UBI leave out these problems when they discuss their utopian plan.

The problem is more complex than just handing out a grand (or whatever) to everyone. We have serious issues with the way essential goods and services are run and the rush to privatise those things is very much part of the problem.

Boggles

tom1ie wrote: »

Forgive me if If this has already been brought up, I haven’t bothered to read the whole thread, but You say the elephant in the room is social welfare, and people gaming the state.
Of the 20.6 billion, 8.04 billion is spent on pensions.
We’ve an aging population.
This is the elephant in the room.
https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/

It isn't really and has been well flagged.

In terms of GDP we have the lowest spend on pensions in all of the EU28.

In terms of expenditure, we are at about 13%, the EU average is 22%.

Cina

Boggles wrote: »

It isn't really and has been well flagged.

In terms of GDP we have the lowest spend on pensions in all of the EU28.

In terms of expenditure, we are at about 13%, the EU average is 22%.

GDP should never be used to measure anything in Ireland. It's inflated beyond belief by the multinationals and their tax dodging.

Boggles

Cina wrote: »

GDP should never be used to measure anything in Ireland. It's inflated beyond belief by the multinationals and their tax dodging.

.

In terms of expenditure, we are at about 13%, the EU average is 22%.

Veritas Libertas

Tony EH wrote: »

There aren't enough jobs for everyone NOW.

How feasible might an automation or robot tax be to fund the social welfare?

I'm guessing on the global scale it would certainly make us less competitive, and ruins our nice low rates for the MNC's.

I've seen a lot of media recently referring to how many 'gig' jobs there are these days. It seems worrying.

Idbatterim

a poster raised the pensions issue. we are going to have a massive issues with pensions, need young people to pay them, many of these young skilled people are leaving or have left and wont come back! For reasons including, cost of housing, childcare, general cost of living, the comedy marginal rate!

Meanwhile, we make sure we keep the likes of margaret cash and her ilk here, by rewarding her with an obscene welfare package, it just makes so much sense :rolleyes:

Tony EH

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

How feasible might an automation or robot tax be to fund the social welfare?

I'm guessing on the global scale it would certainly make us less competitive, and ruins our nice low rates for the MNC's.

I've seen a lot of media recently referring to how many 'gig' jobs there are these days. It seems worrying.

I have no idea how a "robot tax" would work. But, if the tax dodging that goes on by corporations currently is anything to go by, it'll just become another thing to avoid for companies who don't wish to pay it and another thing for neo-lib governments to ignore.

As for the gig economy, you should be worried. Very worried. Gig is just another term for zero hour contracts and is yet another way for the right to erode all of the labour benefits that have been fought for during the 20th Century and those benefits were hard won.

Everybody should be worried, right now, and not just when it hits the line of work that they are currently in. Working conditions, even over my lifetime, have been slowly getting worn away and far too many people are oblivious to it, because they think it's just going to be a thing that happens to somebody else.

Graces7

Idbatterim wrote: »

this is the key point! Is it being the definition of abused technically, probably not. Its the same with the welfare system here, its not actually being abused in the technical word, the system is a joke! Its a total piss take, I'd say they go in with a complaint and are cut off mid sentence, by a GP already signing the form. run all those people through the german system, would love to see how many would be deemed "disabled"!

so now the doctors are in on it too … It is not easy to get disability.

Cina

Boggles wrote: »

.

Um, my point still stands so I'm not sure why you're re-quoting yourself. Using expenditure against our GDP in percentages is completely misleading. Our GDP is 162% of our GNI*.

Boggles

Cina wrote: »

Um, my point still stands so I'm not sure why you're re-quoting yourself. Using expenditure against our GDP in percentages is completely misleading. Our GDP is 162% of our GNI*.

I gave it in terms of expenditure too because I knew someone would be in banging on about GDP.

Veritas Libertas

Tony EH wrote: »

Everybody should be worried, right now, and not just when it hits the line of work that they are currently in. Working conditions, even over my lifetime, have been slowly getting worn away and far too many people are oblivious to it, because they think it's just going to be a thing that happens to somebody else.

There's not many things Tucker Carlson, Mayor Bill De Blasio, you and I agree on, but this certainly is one.

Full discussion here.

Skylinehead

Idbatterim wrote: »

who's that aimed at?

Not you

pinkyeye

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How any able bodied person makes it to retirement without that is beyond me.

Self employed, farmers etc. don't get full contributions although they pay tax the same as you and I.

So maybe get your facts straight.

Eric Cartman

pinkyeye wrote: »

Self employed, farmers etc. don't get full contributions although they pay tax the same as you and I.

So maybe get your facts straight.

Incorrect.

Self employed and the state pension (extracts from citizensinformation.ie and welfare.ie)

Class S applies to self-employed people including certain company directors, people in business on their own account and people with income from investments and rents. It cover only a limited number of social insurance payments.

What are “self-employed contributions”?

Self-employed rate social insurance contributions are PRSI contributions at Class S. These contributions are counted as full rate contributions for State pension (contributory) purposes.

James Brown

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

There's not many things Tucker Carlson, Mayor Bill De Blasio, you and I agree on, but this certainly is one.

Full discussion here.

America is not the world. Especially not Ireland, thank f***. Nobody gives a f*** about Tucker Carlson in Ireland.
Generally the kids need to tune out this 'murica faux intellectual conspiracy garbage.

kowloon

Steve wrote: »

But, but, Leo said they were saving at least €500M per year of welfare fraud.

Didn't realise this meant from OAP's

Obviously the drug addicts haven't been targeted yet.

:rolleyes:

You get a payment for drug addiction?!

And here I am like a sucker trying to kick my insulin habit.

Eric Cartman

kowloon wrote: »

You get a payment for drug addiction?!

And here I am like a sucker trying to kick my insulin habit.

yeah, you can in some cases get disability for alcohol or drug problems which is madness.
And then the methodone program which is almost worse than the heroin....