Alberto Salazar banned for 4 years

Torsevt

MJ

Not saying he was but I would drop with shock if he wasn't

Everyone of his relay squad was busted except him

is_that_so

Torsevt wrote: »

MJ

Not saying he was but I would drop with shock if he wasn't

Everyone of his relay squad was busted except him

He gave back his medal voluntarily.

walshb

is_that_so wrote: »

He gave back his medal voluntarily.

But that proves nothing. Nor does his never ever failing a test.

Athletes can do nothing today to please some people...

You cannot prove you are clean and honest with some...

KSU

healy1835 wrote: »

Am I right in saying he didn't stay long in the NOP and joined another Nike training group fairly close by?

Yeah left at start of summer 2012 in around same time as Magness and going Oregon Track club with Mark Rowland. Unclear as to reasons though had suffered very bad Ankle injury so was struggling to make fitness for London

Chivito550

STB. wrote: »

She didn't though. She ran a PB and faster time than Sonia when she won Gold at 22 at 1500. That's how good Ciara's PB is. It could easily be forgotten given the winner did a 3:51 without breaking sweat, 7 days after running and winning a 10000.

If I was looking for dopers, they wouldn't be out the back.

Are dopers now dragging clean athletes to faster times or are they depriving clean athletes of medals ? Your call.

Christ. Are you actually comparing Sonia's 1991 (not 1992) win at the World Student Games to a performance at a World Championships? The World Student Games is division 3 stuff.

What next, comparing an All Ireland hurling winners medal to an Olympic medal...

Ceepo

Chivito550 wrote: »

What next, comparing an All Ireland hurling winners medal to an Olympic medal...

Are they not on a par.. sure if you win the all Ireland hurling championship you are the world champions
And elevated to legendary status :)

Braken

KSU wrote: »

He joined group off the back of that, it was actually at Daegu he got in contact with Salazar. Before that he was still with college coach.

He has been very defensive over that however it’s worth noting he is still on Nike Payroll in marketing role IIRC

I was often wondering if he was pro or anti Salazar but the fact he is on the Nike parole says it all...as is Radcliff also her husband coaches Farah ..Cram is also a Nike Ambassador as was Coe previously...if Nike were a country they would be the equilivant of Russia ..and of course the next World championships are in Eugene
home of Nike. ..the have no interest in the integrity of the sport I loved as a kid it will be their downfall eventually

walshb

Torsevt wrote: »

MJ

Not saying he was but I would drop with shock if he wasn't

Everyone of his relay squad was busted except him

So, you are pretty sure/certain that he was.....

Braken

walshb wrote: »

So, you are pretty sure/certain that he was.....

MJ has encountered a number of health issues
particularly with his heart ..still only in his 50s

walshb

Braken wrote: »

MJ has encountered a number of health issues
particularly with his heart ..still only in his 50s

And?

I am kind of waiting for more....

Are these the levels of suspicion needed to make one so sure of one's PEDs use in sport?

yaboya1

Chivito550 wrote: »

What next, comparing an All Ireland hurling winners medal to an Olympic medal...

Hurling is not an Olympic sport, so that's impossible

Sinbad_NI

walshb wrote: »

And?

I am kind of waiting for more....

Are these the levels of suspicion needed to make one so sure of one's PEDs use in sport?

Back at you...did Ayana's 10k WR look clean to you?

Always a bad sign when an athlete demolishes an old WR by a huge margin, without even being out of breath or looking at all tired.

Marty Xavier

walshb you remind me of me 20 years ago. I ran alot and devoured all athletics events, then got injured and I took to the bike and got equally into that, I idolised Roche , Kelly as a kid and later Ulrich and Armstrong along with Gabresallesie, Komen, Radcliffe, McKiernan, Sonia.

I believed they were all clean too at the time, now I see my blindness, bar 2 names above I think the rest cheated at some stage and most were consistent dopers.

I think we need to face that most of the medalists in athletics and almost all the contenders in cycling dope to a fairly large degree. If these are sports you want to follow and invest in emotionally and financially then off you go but don't try to defend them and give me the innocent until proven guilty spiel as I have heard that way to often.

I once wrote a letter to Michael Moynihan in the examiner taking him to task about a glowing article on Lance when he came to Dublin for a race a few years back now all those journos distance themselves from the great man

. I am put off most professional sports at this stage due to the obvious reasons.

average_runner

Braken wrote: »

MJ has encountered a number of health issues
particularly with his heart ..still only in his 50s

My dad when in his 50's encountered a number of issues with his heart but never took performance enhancing drugs!!!

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

My dad when in his 50's encountered a number of issues with his heart but never took performance enhancing drugs!!!

Yeh, but he could he run fast?

walshb

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Back at you...did Ayana's 10k WR look clean to you?

Always a bad sign when an athlete demolishes an old WR by a huge margin, without even being out of breath or looking at all tired.

Not sure what 'back at you' means here...

Someone having issues with their heart in their 50s seems to be now all some need for proof of PEDs use in their prime...

walshb

Marty Xavier wrote: »

walshb you remind me of me 20 years ago. I ran alot and devoured all athletics events, then got injured and I took to the bike and got equally into that, I idolised Roche , Kelly as a kid and later Ulrich and Armstrong along with Gabresallesie, Komen, Radcliffe, McKiernan, Sonia.

I believed they were all clean too at the time, now I see my blindness, bar 2 names above I think the rest cheated at some stage and most were consistent dopers.

I think we need to face that most of the medalists in athletics and almost all the contenders in cycling dope to a fairly large degree. If these are sports you want to follow and invest in emotionally and financially then off you go but don't try to defend them and give me the innocent until proven guilty spiel as I have heard that way to often.

I once wrote a letter to Michael Moynihan in the examiner taking him to task about a glowing article on Lance when he came to Dublin for a race a few years back now all those journos distance themselves from the great man

. I am put off most professional sports at this stage due to the obvious reasons.

I can't remind you of me...

I never believed all were clean, as you are putting it here....

Ben Johnson in 1988 was my first real proper introduction to what people will do to win...I never thought he was alone, but also, I never thought he was the majority...

Sinbad_NI

walshb wrote: »

Not sure what 'back at you' means here...

You seem to be throwing out names that have performed brilliantly whithout any know links to doping.
I'm just trying to fish out of you what you're really trying to ask.

Is it "do you think are all winners cheats"?
If it is, then I'd say no, but threat then all with great caution and their words with a huge pinch of salt.

walshb

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

You seem to be throwing out names that have performed brilliantly whithout any know links to doping.
I'm just trying to fish out of you what you're really trying to ask.

Is it "do you think are all winners cheats"?
If it is, then I'd say no, but threat then all with great caution and their words with a huge pinch of salt.

I was responding to the matter of fact claim that all are cheats....

I don't think all are....

Sonia clean......MJ clean....many others as well

Then there are the convicted cheats. We know these, then the suspicious ones, and so on and so on; all about levels...

Ceepo

walshb wrote: »

I was responding to the matter of fact claim that all are cheats....

I don't think all are....

Sonia clean......MJ clean....many others as well

Then there are the convicted cheats. We know these, then the suspicious ones, and so on and so on; all about levels...

So who in your mind are" the suspicious ones " and how do you define that they're suspicious

walshb

Ceepo wrote: »

So who in your mind are" the suspicious ones " and how do you define that they're suspicious

Use common sense to define...or whatever floats your boat.

Take the 80s WRs, when testing was non existent....

Athletes running times 30 + years ago that still stand today, when you factor in that back then there was no real testing, and the sport was not at the advanced stage it is today and recently.

That would really stand out to me...


Physical appearance too, relating to some of these women..

100 up to and including 800 WRs on women's side are all to be looked at....

Sinbad_NI

Advanced is not a word I would associate with wada's ability to catch cheats.

Far far from it.
Cheats will always be well ahead of them, that's the very nature of the game.

Ceepo

walshb wrote: »

Use common sense to define...or whatever floats your boat.

Take the 80s WRs, when testing was non existent....

Athletes running times 30 + years ago that still stand today, when you factor in that back then there was no real testing, and the sport was not at the advanced stage it is today and recently.

That would really stand out to me...


Physical appearance too, relating to some of these women..

100 up to and including 800 WRs on women's side are all to be looked at....

"Use common sense to define...or whatever floats your boat" but what does that mean??? You stated that some performance were/are suspicious, what performance are you referring to.. is it only only womens that you see as suspicious
Not sure what you mean by " what ever floats your boat"

Do you think that doping/peds aren't a factor in the last 30 years?.. what about 15/ 20 years ago... yes there was more testing, but we know from Armstrong Landis etc how easy it was to evade getting caught...
Physical appearance. Most sprint women are very muscular dose this raise your suspicion?
Lots of women over the years at sprint and mid distance for that matter...

Marty Xavier

walshb wrote: »

I can't remind you of me...

I never believed all were clean, as you are putting it here....

Ben Johnson in 1988 was my first real proper introduction to what people will do to win...I never thought he was alone, but also, I never thought he was the majority...

He mightn't have been back in 88 but ten years later things had changed. And Carl Lewis the white knight of the Seoul olympics failed 3 drugs tests in 1988!.

walshb

Ceepo wrote: »

"Use common sense to define...or whatever floats your boat" but what does that mean??? You stated that some performance were/are suspicious, what performance are you referring to.. is it only only womens that you see as suspicious
Not sure what you mean by " what ever floats your boat"

Do you think that doping/peds aren't a factor in the last 30 years?.. what about 15/ 20 years ago... yes there was more testing, but we know from Armstrong Landis etc how easy it was to evade getting caught...
Physical appearance. Most sprint women are very muscular dose this raise your suspicion?
Lots of women over the years at sprint and mid distance for that matter...

You are answering my responses with more questions

You asked what I would say is suspicious

I listed some of the things I would look at as being suspicious..

I listed the 100 up to and including the 800 WRs on the women's side, and you asked for what performances....?

The whatever floats your boat was relating to how some people will uses pretty much anything to come to their conclusions......

"Ah, sure if he's at it, they're all it" nonsense...

Or, as today, MJ had some issues with his heart in his 50s.......

Are there suspicions today and recently....? sure, that is the nature of people and their ability to win and break down barriers and records....

Of today's WRs...........as in the ones set after the 1980s?

My all time favorite track racer, who I believe to be clean, EL G......He competed in an era where EPO was prevalent. That raises suspicion, but I still think he was juts a truly amazing specimen, and likely a clean one.

People mention Haile and Bekele at 5 and 10 k; I think both were clean..

walshb

Marty Xavier wrote: »

He mightn't have been back in 88 but ten years later things had changed. And Carl Lewis the white knight of the Seoul olympics failed 3 drugs tests in 1988!.

No, he did not. This is the lazy ignorance around testing and fails

Lewis broke no rules whatsoever. And the Olympic Council showed this...

Read up on it. There is a very good youtube vid I posted that explains it clearly..

The tests were not deemed as PED test fails.....no competing rules were broken.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-may-01-sp-oly1-story.html

Ceepo

walshb wrote: »

You are answering my responses with more questions

You asked what I would say is suspicious

I listed some of the things I would look at as being suspicious..

I listed the 100 up to and including the 800 WRs on the women's side, and you asked for what performances....?

The whatever floats your boat was relating to how some people will uses pretty much anything to come to their conclusions......

"Ah, sure if he's at it, they're all it" nonsense...

Or, as today, MJ had some issues with his heart in his 50s.......

Are there suspicions today and recently....? sure, that is the nature of people and their ability to win and break down barriers and records....

Of today's WRs...........as in the ones set after the 1980s?

My all time favorite track racer, who I believe to be clean, EL G......He competed in an era where EPO was prevalent. That raises suspicion, but I still think he was juts a truly amazing specimen, and likely a clean one.

People mention Haile and Bekele at 5 and 10 k; I think both were clean..

More looking for clarity that asking more questions. Reading the 1st post it would seem to me at least that you only thought that women that were muscular in predominantly 100 to 800m for 30+ years ago were the only ones that raised suspicion

walshb

Ceepo wrote: »

More looking for clarity that asking more questions. Reading the 1st post it would seem to me at least that you only thought that women that were muscular in predominantly 100 to 800m for 30+ years ago were the only ones that raised suspicion

Muscular is one area. Not the be all and end all

Main criteria back then was the times, that are still not bettered 30 years later, and the lack of actual testing....

Plenty criteria one can use to raise their suspicion...

I think there was more to be suspicious about when there was NO testing, as opposed to today, when there is a heap more testing....And a heap more eyes and ears on your every move...

What about you? Criteria....? What records today are you suspicious of, and why?

Sinbad_NI

Might be more testing now, but the doctors are also many years more advanced in evading the tests.
I.e. they keep moving the goalposts.

Case in point, EPO.
Wada had no test so they made the 50% rule.
Doctors bought centrifuges to check ahead of the tests.
Then wada eventually came up with a test.
Doctors moved to micro dossing directly into the bloodstream.
Again almost impossible to detect even today.

Also the EPO test is very expensive.
You never hear statistics about what tests were actually done. Most testing doesn't cover EPO as a result, but that's not widely reported.
But the test results fool you into thinking the athletes are clean.

Braken

average_runner wrote: »

My dad when in his 50's encountered a number of issues with his heart but never took performance enhancing drugs!!!

sorry to hear that...so had FLO Jo