Alberto Salazar banned for 4 years

Sinbad_NI

walshb wrote: »

...

Same for Dibaba and Hassan....could be clean or dirty. Both never failed tests, and it's quite possible that both ran their great times clean.

This is the same Dibaba who's chemist, sorry coach, was Aden.
Ditto with Hassan and Salazar.

Push hard and you'll be able to lift that stone your under... come on out.

OOnegative

Lads walshb will keep going longer than ye, will continue with the same arguments over & over & over & over again. More than 37,000 posts on Boards, he has either a lot of free time or is just a......

Why do you think none of the more educated and knowledgeable posters are not taking part in this thread with there opinions?

Ceepo

walshb wrote: »

Then there are those who are 3.38 type who got to low 3.30s through hard work and training, and yes, some through PEDs....

..

Again..... you're open that some might have used peds to get to lows 3.30 (for men)
But not open that Hassan might have used peds to get to 3.51... ?
Is it possible she front ran one of the fastest times ever for 1500 with only very dubious times ahead of her, having trained under coach that has just being served with a 4 year ban.. a few day after running a very fast 10k finishing the last 1500 in a time only a few seconds outside her then pb..maybe... is it going to raise a red flag... certainly.

Ceepo

OOnegative wrote: »

Lads walshb will keep going longer than ye, will continue with the same arguments over & over & over & over again. More than 37,000 posts on Boards, he has either a lot of free time or is just a......

Why do you think none of the more educated and knowledgeable posters are not taking part in this thread with there opinions?

Lol... I did tell myself yesterday I was out.. but still found myself back to answer/ question again.. ;(
But I'm out this time...

chasingpaper

OOnegative wrote: »

Lads walshb will keep going longer than ye, will continue with the same arguments over & over & over & over again. More than 37,000 posts on Boards, he has either a lot of free time or is just a......

Why do you think none of the more educated and knowledgeable posters are not taking part in this thread with there opinions?

His post volume and intensity is insane.
Must be using EPOst :pac:

walshb

Ceepo wrote: »

Again..... you're open that some might have used peds to get to lows 3.30 (for men)
But not open that Hassan might have used peds to get to 3.51... ?
.

Where did I say that Hassan has to be doing this clean? You are seeing things that aren't there....

Hassan is no different than anyone else who has ran really elite times. She, like them could be either A: clean, or B: dirty.

Anyway, you're out, no? Or do you need some EPO to keep you kicking......?

Hoboo

Ceepo wrote: »

Some of the real cost to clean athletes..

https://www.womensrunning.com/2019/10/news/cheated-dopers-steal-more-than-medals_103126

Isn't it great to see Salazer and his ilk getting banned..

I'd be more concerned about the cheats not getting banned than the guy who sells it. It's just window dressing.

Hoboo

OOnegative wrote: »

Why do you think none of the more educated and knowledgeable posters are not taking part in this thread with there opinions?

Because it's easier to stick your head in the sand and pretend professional athletics isn't a load of nonsense.

BDI

Strictly come dancing is on In the background because I was reading boards and the gymnastics ended and the dancing was on next.

I looked at it and thought that the dancers probably dope.

They probably do.

OOnegative

Hoboo wrote: »

Because it's easier to stick your head in the sand and pretend professional athletics isn't a load of nonsense.

Yeah, and if you had any clue what I was talking about you wouldn’t say that! Educate yourself a little bit before you comment.

KSU

Chicago is heating up

Mo playing the race card

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1182718118935846912?s=20

Mo: "Where was I in Osaka back in 2007?"
Journalist: "7th"

:p

Looks like he was out in the cold from the current NOP hymn sheet

Rupp going for the Manuel (Fawlty Towers approach)

https://twitter.com/ChrisChavez/status/1182717098742730757?s=20

OOnegative

KSU wrote: »

Chicago is heating up

Mo playing the race card

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1182718118935846912?s=20

Mo: "Where was I in Osaka back in 2007?"
Journalist: "7th"

:p

Looks like he was out in the cold from the current NOP hymn sheet

Rupp going for the Manuel (Fawlty Towers approach)

https://twitter.com/ChrisChavez/status/1182717098742730757?s=20

Farah sounds absolutely horrendous in that!!

KSU

OOnegative wrote: »

Farah sounds absolutely horrendous in that!!

And it didn't get better from there

To be fair though he has never come off well on an interview about this (even back in 2015/2016 in front of the UK pandering media - for the most part)

OOnegative

KSU wrote: »

And it didn't get better from there

To be fair though he has never come off well on an interview about this (even back in 2015/2016 in front of the UK pandering media - for the most part)

Rupp in fairness to him was much better at deflecting the NOP questions with the false smile, really should give Mo some PR tips....

Ceepo

I'll just drop this in here..

All speculation of course..



https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9645932

Itziger

Wow, did you guys read on down? I know it's LetsRun where absolutely anything goes but a certain nation is mentioned regularly. Not saying it can't be true (what, poor li'll us??) but it's funny they pick a small country when what we're really talking about here is USA/UK.....

STB.

OOnegative wrote: »

Rupp in fairness to him was much better at deflecting the NOP questions with the false smile, really should give Mo some PR tips....

It is surprising that he was not prepared given he had previously felt the need to engage the services of a crisis management PR company when this broke in 2015. Absolute car crash stuff.


The Dailymail article in the last few days shows that there was more than just l-caratine and alternative insulin mixers going on. And it is clear from the records that you can narrow it down to just 3 who those high red blood cell scores in 2011 refer to.

Chivito550

Water John wrote: »

Was going to comment on Hassan earlier. Mageean won a bronze just behind Hassan's silver a few years ago. That says it all, when the improvement is, out of this world.

'a clearer superior athlete' since when?

Hassan was coming off the back of a bad injury in Amsterdam. The year before Hassan ran 3:56.0 having tried to chase Dibaba and crawled home the last 300m.

You need to do better research.

Chivito550

Itziger wrote: »

Wow, did you guys read on down? I know it's LetsRun where absolutely anything goes but a certain nation is mentioned regularly. Not saying it can't be true (what, poor li'll us??) but it's funny they pick a small country when what we're really talking about here is USA/UK.....

It can't be O'Lionaird. He did not join NOP until AFTER Daegu.

People really don't like doing research it seems.

Chivito550

I'm not going to say that Hassan is clean or dirty because I simply do not know.

However, some of the nonsense spouted about her on this thread is embarrassing.

Hassan has been world class for years. She was not some punter like Mo, she was one of the absolute best in the world. As I said, had she run her own race in 2015 rather than try to chase Dibaba she would have run 3:54.

Hassan has always been ridiculously talented. Where she has fallen down over the years was poor race tactics. I've lost count of the amount of times she stupidly sat at the back and gave an unassailable lead to her rivals for no good reason. Tactically, she was one of the worst runners I have seen.

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that such a talented athlete learning to run smarter will yield better results.

Throw in the most perfect conditions you can possibly get (controlled conditions and no wind) and some questionable footwear and the jump from 3:54 shape in 2015 to very high 3:51 doesn't seem so big. Again not saying she's clean or doping here. Just presenting facts.

You would seriously wonder how much some posters here actually follow the sport, because anybody who has watched the diamond league and championships over the past 5 years would know her history.

walshb

Glad to read a balanced, sensible, fair, honest and logical post on this...

I thought I was going mad, in my giving Hassan the benefit of the doubt on her ability to run low 3.50s.....

Some of the blanket posts and statements on here about these athletes are disgraceful.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

It can't be O'Lionaird. He did not join NOP until AFTER Daegu.

People really don't like doing research it seems.

And his latest tweet is not of someone who would cheat.

KSU

Chivito550 wrote: »

I'm not going to say that Hassan is clean or dirty because I simply do not know.

However, some of the nonsense spouted about her on this thread is embarrassing.

Hassan has been world class for years. She was not some punter like Mo, she was one of the absolute best in the world. As I said, had she run her own race in 2015 rather than try to chase Dibaba she would have run 3:54.

Hassan has always been ridiculously talented. Where she has fallen down over the years was poor race tactics. I've lost count of the amount of times she stupidly sat at the back and gave an unassailable lead to her rivals for no good reason. Tactically, she was one of the worst runners I have seen.

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that such a talented athlete learning to run smarter will yield better results.

Throw in the most perfect conditions you can possibly get (controlled conditions and no wind) and some questionable footwear and the jump from 3:54 shape in 2015 to very high 3:51 doesn't seem so big. Again not saying she's clean or doping here. Just presenting facts.

You would seriously wonder how much some posters here actually follow the sport, because anybody who has watched the diamond league and championships over the past 5 years would know her history.

Not disagreeing with you but for me it's not her 3.51 that raises suspicion its her range, primarily an 800/1500 runner all of a sudden has become a world class half marathon runner.

Sacksian

KSU wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you but for me it's not her 3.51 that raises suspicion its her range, primarily an 800/1500 runner all of a sudden has become a world class half marathon runner.

She did win Euro cross gold in 2015 (and u23 gold in 2013) beating some fairly decent runners.

I would have defended her more stoutly before seeing the two finals and the manner of her victories in Doha.

Despite the concerted effort to drop her from the rest of the field, the surges, creating gaps, etc, she never seemed in any trouble in the 10,000m. It was eerily familiar.

And it was the manner of the 3.51 rather than the time is what seemed off to me, to be honest. Two 16s+ 100m splits lying ninth after 200m, and then off like a rocket to front-run a CR at world championships is unusual.

KSU

Sacksian wrote: »

She did win Euro cross gold in 2015 (and u23 gold in 2013) beating some fairly decent runners.

8k on a relatively handy XC course (typical European type course) against the likes of Avery and McCormack etc is a long way from top 10 all time Half Marathon runner.

I remember thinking at the time that that course would suit track runners and more 1500/5000 runners.

Sinbad_NI

Chivito550 wrote: »

...
However, some of the nonsense spouted about her on this thread is embarrassing.
...

I think she's just another of the many many athletes who has a coach that is a chemists first and foremost.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170829090950.htm

Itziger

Chivito550 wrote: »

I'm not going to say that Hassan is clean or dirty because I simply do not know.

However, some of the nonsense spouted about her on this thread is embarrassing.

Hassan has been world class for years. She was not some punter like Mo, she was one of the absolute best in the world. As I said, had she run her own race in 2015 rather than try to chase Dibaba she would have run 3:54.

Hassan has always been ridiculously talented. Where she has fallen down over the years was poor race tactics. I've lost count of the amount of times she stupidly sat at the back and gave an unassailable lead to her rivals for no good reason. Tactically, she was one of the worst runners I have seen.

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that such a talented athlete learning to run smarter will yield better results.

Throw in the most perfect conditions you can possibly get (controlled conditions and no wind) and some questionable footwear and the jump from 3:54 shape in 2015 to very high 3:51 doesn't seem so big. Again not saying she's clean or doping here. Just presenting facts.

You would seriously wonder how much some posters here actually follow the sport, because anybody who has watched the diamond league and championships over the past 5 years would know her history.

So what you think is fine because you research and know your $hit and most of the rest is nonsense. Fair enough.

Yet strangely you insist on the 3.54 that she never ran. You can't have it both ways. I would agree with Sacksian about the manner of her 1500 win too.

Imagine what time she'd have run if she didn't keep looking behind!!

Chivito550

Itziger wrote: »

So what you think is fine because you research and know your $hit and most of the rest is nonsense. Fair enough.

Yet strangely you insist on the 3.54 that she never ran. You can't have it both ways. I would agree with Sacksian about the manner of her 1500 win too.

Imagine what time she'd have run if she didn't keep looking behind!!

Just watch this race. What a crazy way to run 3:56.0, virtually crawling over the line after a 400m death march. That's an athlete who was clearly in 3:54 shape if she paced herself properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aE5ZMQwiUE

Itziger

Chivito550 wrote: »

Just watch this race. What a crazy way to run 3:56.0, virtually crawling over the line after a 400m death march. That's an athlete who was clearly in 3:54 shape if she paced herself properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aE5ZMQwiUE

You probably have a point, but only probably!!

There are many ways to run a 3.56 as there are many ways to run any race. A fella who does a 3 hr marathon in 1.25/1.35 splits MAY have been better served doing 1.28/1.28 but it cannot be proved. In the race with Dibaba she banked a lot of time and ran out of gas cos she was not in 3.50, or 51, or 52 pace. On the day she ran what she ran.

Now, after moving training camp and running a 10,000 and a heat or two.......

We could be here for eternity.

Chivito550

Itziger wrote: »

You probably have a point, but only probably!!

There are many ways to run a 3.56 as there are many ways to run any race. A fella who does a 3 hr marathon in 1.25/1.35 splits MAY have been better served doing 1.28/1.28 but it cannot be proved. In the race with Dibaba she banked a lot of time and ran out of gas cos she was not in 3.50, or 51, or 52 pace. On the day she ran what she ran.

Now, after moving training camp and running a 10,000 and a heat or two.......

We could be here for eternity.

Many ways to run a race, sure. But the optimal way to run as fast a time as possible is not to go flat out for 1100 and crawl home.

Again, as I have said a couple times, I'm not trying to prove she is clean. I'm merely trying to prove the level of athlete she was back in 2015, aged just 22, long before she went to Salazar. We are talking about a very talented athlete here.

This does not mean she is clean. It does disprove lots of the nonsense written about her though. Many seem to think she has come out of nowhere after going to Salazar, making comparisons with Mo, who was an also-ran before he joined him. Hassan was already one of the quickest in history long before moving to NOP.

When people get their facts right, it makes the debate then far more worthwhile.

Laughable for example that one poster thought that Hassan used to be on Mageean's level based on one race shortly after Hassan returned from injury.