ESB eCars pricing introduction

liamog

I still think the term destination charging is useful, it's a handy way of expressing the difference between a charger that I got to to charge my car, and a charge point I use whilst doing something else.
I do agree with you re a per min pricing for an AC charger , and I say that having owned a car with a 16A charger, which meant public AC charging was purely an exercise in getting a premium parking space.

irishgrover

McGiver wrote:

"Destination charge" is Tesla terminology, I prefer not using it, but it's creeping in here from few posters here (Tesla people I guess).

I've been using this term for years and was unaware it was brand specific. I've never even sat in a tesla, much less owned one.

Gael23

How do you judge to go for membership or pay as you go?

TBi

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I hope they don’t change as these are destination chargers and most have parking charges also. Ps I don’t hog the charger but if someone arrives low and needs 6 hrs while they do the day in town or on the train it should not penalise them. From what I see they are no longer being abused since the charge fees came in.

The ones here are used by people for the free parking while they work in the city. Much cheaper than paying for parking. Even a 6 hour limit on these would deter them. Who needs 6 hours in town?

innrain

Gael23 wrote: »

How do you judge to go for membership or pay as you go?

There is 3.7c difference for the price of 1kWh membership vs pay as you go;
4.6 quid cost of the subscription divided by 3.7c -> 124.32 kWh per month to get even.

As it is a yearly subscription multiply this by 12 and you get that you have to use 1500 kWh a year to be worth it.

In other way. In 45 mins at the 50kW charger you get at best about 37kWh
So you need to charge around 4 times a month (124.32/37 =3.36) or better said once a week.

For standard chargers the difference is 3.8c which doesn't change much. At high powered ones the difference is of only 1.5c but they are in such small number. They can't be a factor in deciding subscription or payg

innrain

innrain wrote: »

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/faqs/can-i-park-my-electric-car-for-free-at-iarnrod-eir

The Luas ones require payment. Even the FCP at Stillorgan. I have seen cars clamped there in the pre-covid days. The stupid bit is that the minimum purchase is 4h.

I was there last night and observed that APCOA moved from park by text to their app. APCOA connect Now minimum purchase is 1 day (4 quid). Progress :mad:

kennethsmyth

TBi wrote: »

The ones here are used by people for the free parking while they work in the city. Much cheaper than paying for parking. Even a 6 hour limit on these would deter them. Who needs 6 hours in town?

Where are these based? Dublin is paid parking regardless of charging other than in train stations

MJohnston

innrain wrote: »

There is 3.7c difference for the price of 1kWh membership vs pay as you go;
4.6 quid cost of the subscription divided by 3.7c -> 124.32 kWh per month to get even.

As it is a yearly subscription multiply this by 12 and you get that you have to use 1500 kWh a year to be worth it.

In other way. In 45 mins at the 50kW charger you get at best about 37kWh
So you need to charge around 4 times a month (124.32/37 =3.36) or better said once a week.

For standard chargers the difference is 3.8c which doesn't change much. At high powered ones the difference is of only 1.5c but they are in such small number. They can't be a factor in deciding subscription or payg

Does this take into account the €20 minimum top up for PAYG?

innrain

MJohnston wrote: »

Does this take into account the €20 minimum top up for PAYG?

I don't see how is that relevant. But for the sake of argument the 20 quid is money credited and not money spent. On the subscription model you spend €55.2 a year without even charging. On the pre-pay the €20 will be still there if you don't charge in a year. They have the option not to do that and just make an once-off transaction. At least this is what they say on the website

There are two Pay As You Go payment options:
Pay As You Go: Make a once off transaction at any ESB fast charge point or via the ecar connectapp.
Pre-Pay: Purchase pre-paid credit with a registered account on our website our via the ecar connectapp.

MJohnston

innrain wrote: »

I don't see how is that relevant. But for the sake of argument the 20 quid is money credited and not money spent. On the subscription model you spend €55.2 a year without even charging. On the pre-pay the €20 will be still there if you don't charge in a year. They have the option not to do that and just make an once-off transaction. At least this is what they say on the website

There are two Pay As You Go payment options:
Pay As You Go: Make a once off transaction at any ESB fast charge point or via the ecar connectapp.
Pre-Pay: Purchase pre-paid credit with a registered account on our website our via the ecar connectapp.

That’s all true, it’s really only this first year I was thinking of, but as you say the credit is used anyway.

TBi

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Where are these based? Dublin is paid parking regardless of charging other than in train stations

Last I checked everywhere but Dublin has free EV parking while “charging”.

innrain

TBi wrote: »

Last I checked everywhere but Dublin has free EV parking while “charging”.

You can't be more wrong.
Dublin City https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/parking-dublin-city-centre/electric-vehicle-charging
Fingal
https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2019-11/fcc-draft-parking-bye-laws-2019.pdf
It says draft. Go to page 38
South County - they had public consultation last year to change their 2010 by laws. The proposal included reduced charges for EVs
https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/consultation/draft-control-parking-bye-laws-2020
DLR used to be free while charging for 3h. New bylaws from last year https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/parking_control_bye-laws_2020.pdf kinda removes that.

It is so unfortunate that there is no national approach to this issue

Gael23

I know where I am back when the charge was feee you you did need to have any required parking ticket.

MJohnston

innrain wrote: »

You can't be more wrong.
Dublin City https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/parking-dublin-city-centre/electric-vehicle-charging
Fingal
https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2019-11/fcc-draft-parking-bye-laws-2019.pdf
It says draft. Go to page 38
South County - they had public consultation last year to change their 2010 by laws. The proposal included reduced charges for EVs
https://consult.sdublincoco.ie/en/consultation/draft-control-parking-bye-laws-2020
DLR used to be free while charging for 3h. New bylaws from last year https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/parking_control_bye-laws_2020.pdf kinda removes that.

It is so unfortunate that there is no national approach to this issue

In fairness, that’s not really “so wrong”!

innrain

Well the OP said it is free to park which not the case specially in DCC. There is a charger in Clontarf in a free parking zone where people got clamped because their charging session ended. So in Dublin you have to pay for parking and actively charge.

irishgrover

innrain wrote:

Well the OP said it is free to park which not the case specially in DCC. There is a charger in Clontarf in a free parking zone where people got clamped because their charging session ended. So in Dublin you have to pay for parking and actively charge.

He said everywhere BUT Dublin ???

innrain

irishgrover wrote: »

He said everywhere BUT Dublin ???

Oh sorry. My bad

slave1

TBi wrote: »

Last I checked everywhere but Dublin has free EV parking while “charging”.

County Westmeath has never had free parking for a charging EV

Commissar

I'm sure it's been asked before but ...

Can I charge my new car for 44 minutes and then just disconnected & reconnect? Or switch to the unit 4 meters away.
I know the obvious implication is that I'm being a troll, but I was sitting beside 2 empty charge points when I got dinged. It was just too tempting to stay the extra 4 minutes for a nice, round 80%.

This is just an fyi; I have an external socket at home that's being upgraded with a home charging unit soon. Not to mention it's half the price with night charging set up.

liamog

Physically yes, but eCars reserve the right to charge an overstay charge if you are found to be abusing the system in such a manner. However, I'm not sure they have a mechanism to do so.
If there were two empty charge points next to you, were you on a rapid or a slow charger? I didn't think we had sites with more than 2 rapids yet.

innrain

https://esb.ie/ecars/price-plans/terms-of-service

3.3.3.2 Starting another charge on the same Charge Point from the same Account within a nominal time period (5 minutes) following the ending of the first charge.

Wording is a bit strange but in practice they will manually apply an overstay fee if you stop and start a second time within the 5 minutes mentioned

Commissar

liamog wrote: »

.... I didn't think we had sites with more than 2 rapids yet.

You're right - I'm new to eCars and I misread the configuration in the App.

I'm guessing that I could stay longer inside eating a pizza more than 44:59 if I disconnect using the app rather than coming out to physically remove the connection (assuming that the other charge station is free so I know no-one is waiting).

innrain

Well it is actually 45:59 because ... it doesn't say 45 minutes sharp
It was a discrepancy of about 20s as the charger would report active charging session time while the app would start counting from the moment the user initiates the charging. Instead of fiddling with the fw on the chargers they've decided to give away a minute. However, I would not count on this as there is a electro-mechanical disconnect which takes some seconds. Pressing disconnect at :59s does not mean it actually happens as requested.

ELM327

You have to disconnect around :45-:52 to ensure you cut off in that minute.

MJohnston

In my experience, the ESB app is slow enough that you're best not waiting so long. And some of the chargers are extremely slow to communicate with the network too.

ELM327

I wouldnt use the app, I'd disconnect from the charger hardware (or from the Tesla app in my case) as both are much quicker.

DrPhilG

I've been wary of using the app. First 2 times I used it, the unlock at the end failed. It was on a slow charger too so no emergency stop. Ended up needing the on call engineer.

It was the same charger each time, but I've used it via swipe card dozens of times without an issue.

Only time I used the app since was when I left the card in my pocket rather than in the car and got a grumpy call from my wife who was trying to get connected. She hadn't used the app before so she plugged in and I started it.

MJohnston

I wouldn't trust the charger hardware much either tbh — plenty of finicky card readers about. Always give yourself a couple of minutes ahead of the overstay limit to sort it out imo