2019 AO Competition announced

BainMarie

Only 18 They were at 16 3 months ago. Most departments have received information that they won’t be back to the normal office procedures until December - which I assume involves recruitment. With many EOs covering HEO/AO roles in the meantime. What does the private sector look like? I hear they will be going back earlier with some working for home. Might try there. It seems any promotional recruitment of AP and above has been showing a strong preference for private sector experience anyway.

MrsBean

Probably not right to assume. PAS have made it clear several times that recruitment is continuing as much as possible. Delays are to be expected given the circumstances. There will be many Departments that need new recruits, 'normal' procedures or not.
I am thankful that the panel still stands.

thechaseison

That's great news for you all.

I wonder if there is a possibility that they will extend the panel if recruitment is understandably hindered due to Covid-19?

mac1ntosh

The panel remains valid from this competition for 2 years!

doc22

mac1ntosh wrote: »

The panel remains valid from this competition for 2 years!

PAS said this?

mac1ntosh

doc22 wrote: »

PAS said this?

It's on the 'Process & Dates' Section on the pas website

MrsBean

mac1ntosh wrote: »

It's on the 'Process & Dates' Section on the pas website

Could you link to that? Can't find it on the public jobs website.

The information booklet for this competition said the panel may remain in place for 12 months.

thechaseison

https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/graduates/2019-graduate-campaign#faq

It's on this page under 'Process and Dates' but I'd be leaning more towards what the Information Booklet states, which is 12 months.

BainMarie

Is it 12 months from the date of formation of the panel (i.e. when we were notified we were successful at interview and given a oom) or 12 months from the closing date of application to the competition?

I ask because on their website the dates only take account of the first panel.

doc22

BainMarie wrote: »

Is it 12 months from the date of formation of the panel (i.e. when we were notified we were successful at interview and given a oom) or 12 months from the closing date of application to the competition?

I ask because on their website the dates only take account of the first panel.

Generally the panel will be in place until a new one is formed (interviewed and paneled)

Annemc123

I rang PAS a couple of months ago and they said this panel will expire in 1 year. I assume that is 1 year from the date the panel is formed.

frenchman

I was assigned last week. Waiting on a start date now. Hoping that doesn't take too long.

Jbh91

I was assigned yesterday again waiting to negotiate a start date! I was early 30’s on the general panel

JG2019

Im no 41 on general panel and just got an email saying they’ve reached my place to go through clearance

AOHopeful2019

Can anyone that has already been assigned and started their job able to give an idea of how the role is so far? I know it would be different in each department just looking for any info! Thanks!

thechaseison

Congratulations all!

What departments are you getting assigned to? Can you even PM if you're not comfortable saying on a public forum please!

Thanks a million

BainMarie

thechaseison wrote: »

Congratulations all!

What departments are you getting assigned to? Can you even PM if you're not comfortable saying on a public forum please!

Thanks a million

I’d like to know also. PM me if u can. Would be grateful.

lsdmem

BainMarie wrote: »

I’d like to know also. PM me if u can. Would be grateful.

I'm guessing alot are being assigned to the new bulked up Dept. of Children, Equality and Integration???

SFC1895

lsdmem wrote: »

I'm guessing alot are being assigned to the new bulked up Dept. of Children, Equality and Integration???

I wouldn't be too certain of that. They're getting ~100 staff from Justice and the Disability area from Health, I heard.

Ollie321

This might sound like a silly question but who actually makes the call into how many AO's are needed in a particular office etc?

SFC1895

Ollie321 wrote: »

This might sound like a silly question but who actually makes the call into how many AO's are needed in a particular office etc?

Do mean at the Departmental (Management Board) level or the higher DPER/Vote level?

MrsBean

Ollie321 wrote: »

This might sound like a silly question but who actually makes the call into how many AO's are needed in a particular office etc?

The HR section of each department will know of how many vacancies they have at any given time. Amalgamations of departments will also have an impact on those numbers as pointed out above in reference to the Dept of Children. But generally, every department is in a constant flux of needing staff at various grades as staff leave, second, retire, and get promoted. Depending on the business needs of certain sections managers will put forward a business case for needing more staff on board if it is deemed important enough.

doc22

Were is the new Dep of higher Ed getting staff? and were are they based

SFC1895

doc22 wrote: »

Were is the new Dep of higher Ed getting staff? and were are they based

Innovation and Science too, so at a guess primarily made up of current Education staff, old DBEI staff perhaps moving with some economist secondments from DPER. Pure guesswork here on my behalf though!

Ollie321

MrsBean wrote: »

The HR section of each department will know of how many vacancies they have at any given time. Amalgamations of departments will also have an impact on those numbers as pointed out above in reference to the Dept of Children. But generally, every department is in a constant flux of needing staff at various grades as staff leave, second, retire, and get promoted. Depending on the business needs of certain sections managers will put forward a business case for needing more staff on board if it is deemed important enough.

Thanks for this, so section managers that make requests would be at what level? I have heard of AO's being promoted etc but no requests made to have them replaced even though the section needed them

SFC1895

Ollie321 wrote: »

Thanks for this, so section managers that make requests would be at what level? I have heard of AO's being promoted etc but no requests made to have them replaced even though the section needed them

The section needed them or had an existing vacancy at that level?

doc22

Ollie321 wrote: »

Thanks for this, so section managers that make requests would be at what level? I have heard of AO's being promoted etc but no requests made to have them replaced even though the section needed them

They could be promoting into a HEO internally instead or the PO could move the AO role to a different location in the division. If an open position becomes available management have to request and make business case for role. Allocation isn't automatic. If there's an AO role needed I can't imagine why local management are sitting on it.

BainMarie

Finally, I have recently been assigned to the Department of Justice. However, I am a CO in another department and my manager is threatening not to release me. He said it would likely by 2 to 3 months before I can be released earliest. Is this fair? I am eager to start before the second wave and everything is paused again for months. Justice want me as soon as possible. They may not wait and move on to the next person. I really want that Department. How much notice am I required to give? I told an AP in HR via email that I made the panel months ago... this boils my blood because I have been working non stop for years for my manager and this is the thanks I get when I finally get a promotion externally. Civil Service crap. Please, what can I do? I need to start as soon as possible my partner has lost his job I was waiting for the rise.

An Ri rua

BainMarie wrote: »

Finally, I have recently been assigned to the Department of Justice. However, I am a CO in another department and my manager is threatening not to release me. He said it would likely by 2 to 3 months before I can be released earliest. Is this fair? I am eager to start before the second wave and everything is paused again for months. Justice want me as soon as possible. They may not wait and move on to the next person. I really want that Department. How much notice am I required to give? I told an AP in HR via email that I made the panel months ago... this boils my blood because I have been working non stop for years for my manager and this is the thanks I get when I finally get a promotion externally. Civil Service crap. Please, what can I do? I need to start as soon as possible my partner has lost his job I was waiting for the rise.

Search Boards but I think your 'manager' is talking through their rear end. There is a minimum notice that you must give and after that, they can't hold you. Email FORSA on the Covid19 related email hotline as this is a Covid issue now due to your line manager's attitude.

MrsBean

I was recently told that your home department can keep you for up to 12 weeks if your role is essential to the business needs and will need handover period/new staff trained in, so for example if you are solely responsible for one section like I was. This was said to me anecdotally by a colleague when I was wondering about my own departure date and if they'd try to delay it at all. You got this promotion through an open competition so as far as I'm aware there is no way for your manager to block this move, although they may be able to delay it by the sounds of things.

I suggested a time frame of three weeks for my own move, heard nothing for 2 weeks from my own HR and then last Friday I was told this would be my last week!

In your case I would try speak with someone in HR to discuss the situation and see where you stand. It could just be your manager trying to power play or they could be trying to prepare you for the worst case scenario. If you're worried you could also speak with PAS/Justice HR and see if they can help clarify some things for you - you said you're worried they might move on to the next person and you'll miss out on that Dept. If you really want that Department you could let them know that and they might be able to tell you what the craic is. I find PAS staff really helpful any time I've had any queries.

Be aware it's August and many staff are on leave so you could have some delays in getting a response.
Best of luck with it, try not to worry too much, I'm sure it will work out for you.

BainMarie

An Ri rua wrote: »

Search Boards but I think your 'manager' is talking through their rear end. There is a minimum notice that you must give and after that, they can't hold you. Email FORSA on the Covid19 related email hotline as this is a Vivied issue now due to your line manager's attitude.

Thanks. What is the forsa Covid related email address? I’m not a member yet.

speak to your hr and speak to the hr of yr new dept

leave forsa out of it yet is my advice

its up to your new hr to push here in the first instance

An Ri rua

BainMarie wrote: »

Thanks. What is the forsa Covid related email address? I’m not a member yet.

It's a member benefit. I suggest following the advice given ré seeking advice from PAS, and both HRs. Unless your role is pivotal, which as s CO is highly unlikely, then you would be looking at 4-6 weeks max, not 3 months. I imagine your line manager is an EO in your case? In which case you've just leapfrogged them and their insecurity is on show. EOs, HEOs, even many APs earned their stripes through shouldering the burden for many years. I know many POs who started out as clerical assistants. Average people, in office environments, detest bright people with hard won qualifications. To the point that you can't display said qualifications. Off topic but that's what you're facing so cut through the smoke and talk especially to your receiving HR. Pronto.

Ravelleman

BainMarie wrote: »

Finally, I have recently been assigned to the Department of Justice. However, I am a CO in another department and my manager is threatening not to release me. He said it would likely by 2 to 3 months before I can be released earliest. Is this fair?

Given that this is an open competition, you could simply resign and take the new job, assuming that pension is the same.

BainMarie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

speak to your hr and speak to the hr of yr new dept

leave forsa out of it yet is my advice

its up to your new hr to push here in the first instance

I contacted Justice HR today and they said there is no pressure regarding start date as they have a few positions opening in the next few months. They said it is up to the policy of HR in the releasing Department. HR in my current department are known for doing nothing for COs unless massive pressure is put on. People have been held back 2,3,4 months in the past. Especially that my line manager is demanding an in-person hand over with the new CO. (I would try to avoid this if possible as a family member is immuno-compromised and a hand-over can be done remotely.) I will contact Forsa tomorrow.

There are no rules within the civil service - it is pure good will between one department and another - basically after waiting the 6 months of lockdown, another 3 months is to be expected before Im placed...

An Ri rua

Ravelleman wrote: »

Given that this is an open competition, you could simply resign and take the new job, assuming that pension is the same.

When someone is promoted via open competition, they actually do resign (it's done for them). And then they commence a probationary contract.
It will be interesting what FORSA say and whether they cop that you're not a paid-up member BainMarie.

BainMarie

An Ri rua wrote: »

When someone is promoted via open competition, they actually do resign (it's done for them). And then they commence a probationary contract.
It will be interesting what FORSA say and whether they cop that you're not a paid-up member BainMarie.

Is it too late to join now? And how would I go about it?

An Ri rua

BainMarie wrote: »

Is it too late to join now? And how would I go about it?

www.Forsa.ie would be a good starting point.

JG2019

How have the people who have been placed since Covid/working from home found starting during such a weird time? What’s the training like? I’m starting in two weeks and getting a bit nervous about staring a brand new job from home in a pandemic!

An Ri rua

JG2019 wrote: »

How have the people who have been placed since Covid/working from home found starting during such a weird time? What’s the training like? I’m starting in two weeks and getting a bit nervous about staring a brand new job from home in a pandemic!

Government departments are essential services. You'll likely be in a day or two a week for induction /onboarding purposes.

You'll be grand. Best of luck with it.

MrsBean

JG2019 wrote: »

How have the people who have been placed since Covid/working from home found starting during such a weird time? What’s the training like? I’m starting in two weeks and getting a bit nervous about staring a brand new job from home in a pandemic!

My first day tomorrow, due to work remotely full time. Not too nervous about it but I'm sure there'll be a fair bit of self-directed learning required in the next few weeks. Looking forward to learning something new. Can give you an update in a week or two! Don't be nervous - you'll be fine!

frenchman

Likewise. Just about to start. Working from home full time from the foreseeable. Feels odd. Mixture of nervous and excited.

An Ri rua

frenchman wrote: »

Likewise. Just about to start. Working from home full time from the foreseeable. Feels odd. Mixture of nervous and excited.

On y va!!

Cheeseplant

MrsBean wrote: »

My first day tomorrow, due to work remotely full time. Not too nervous about it but I'm sure there'll be a fair bit of self-directed learning required in the next few weeks. Looking forward to learning something new. Can give you an update in a week or two! Don't be nervous - you'll be fine!

how did you get on?

Cheeseplant

any idea what OOM were reached on these panels, specifically general?
Would imagine there will be another in next month or so

MrsBean

Cheeseplant wrote: »

how did you get on?

Overwhelmed on the first day but slowly starting to click together in my head now. Will still be a steep learning curve made slightly more difficult by remote working, but unit has good procedures docs and great communication over Skype etc.
Exhausted every night! I guess it's my brain trying to piece together all this new unconnected data. Happy with the role though and think it will be good experience for me.

As for the OOM I was in the mid 30s and placed in July. I'd say maybe they've reached the mid 40s? That's a total guess on my part.

Cheeseplant

MrsBean wrote: »

Overwhelmed on the first day but slowly starting to click together in my head now. Will still be a steep learning curve made slightly more difficult by remote working, but unit has good procedures docs and great communication over Skype etc.
Exhausted every night! I guess it's my brain trying to piece together all this new unconnected data. Happy with the role though and think it will be good experience for me.

As for the OOM I was in the mid 30s and placed in July. I'd say maybe they've reached the mid 40s? That's a total guess on my part.

Congrats and glad to hear it's going well. Best of luck with it.

thechaseison

Hey Cheeseplant,

Just to let you know - I was in the 50s and have been placed too

Best of luck

thechaseison

On another note, does anyone know how often AOs get paid? Is it weekly, fortnightly or monthly?

Thanks

MrsBean

thechaseison wrote: »

On another note, does anyone know how often AOs get paid? Is it weekly, fortnightly or monthly?

Thanks

Congrats and best of luck in your new job! AOs get paid fortnightly.