Should we re-introduce wolves to Ireland?

The One Doctor

I hear through the grapevine that the Greens will touting eugenics as a form of population and climate control in the next few months.

Should go down well.

emo72

Humans are becoming less intelligent. The green disease.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Tony EH wrote: »

Seriously cannot believe that there are so many Yes votes for this.

Do people not realise that a pack of wolves could wipe out the large part (or entirety) of a farmers stock in one go? During lambing season, something like that could be disastrous and lambs/birthing sheep are already under attack from the likes of crows, hawks, foxes, pine martens and whatever else.

There's simply no way that Irish farmers, who pride themselves on open range farming (and for good reason) could avoid a situation like that. They would be forced to go to a situation that will eliminate the relatively free nature of farming we employ here and use a more closed in method, like they do in America, where sheep are stuck in pens most, if not all, of the day. I wonder what Eamonn Ryan would end up saying about that if it came to pass.

FFS, a pack of domesticated dogs can cause havoc if they go on the rampage amongst a flock. Just imagine what a roaming pack of wild wolves would do.

This is just a monumentally short sighted, hair brained, idea and even more lamentable that it's being brought up as a motion, when there are far more important things our public representatives should be tackling.

Tbh, the posts here would indicate they don't give a damn. They have a lovely image of what they wish it to be but the reality of having a pack of wolves loose in the countryside doesn't seem to penetrate into their minds at all.

But I suppose virtue signalling is easy as long as they don't have to pay the price of their vainglorious stupidity.

begsbyOnaTrain

HorrorScope wrote: »

Unless it's military grade with an installed weapons platform of some sort, then no.

I mean for dealing with crows and stuff hassling them?

terrydel

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Tbh, the posts here would indicate they don't give a damn. They have a lovely image of what they wish it to be but the reality of having a pack of wolves loose in the countryside doesn't seem to penetrate into their minds at all.

But I suppose virtue signalling is easy as long as they don't have to pay the price of their vainglorious stupidity.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but can people stop using the term 'virtue signalling' as its nothing more than a way for people to act superior and denigrate the opinions others hold in good faith.
People have views, just because you dont agree with them or feel they are somehow 'leftie' doesnt make them virtue signalling. Its a really insulting term imho.

Tony EH

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Alright but right now, would there be a market for some drone sheep protection thing?

In a word. No.

whisky_galore

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Alright but right now, would there be a market for some drone sheep protection thing?

Go off and patent it so.
There's a good lad.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

I'm surprised by the fairytale ideas and fantasy that some people have around this. Reality check very much needed for some!

The whole reason why Cromwell originally put bounties on the heads of Irish wolves was because of their negative impact on livestock (they also killed people). Wolves did not first settle in Ireland when it was an island, now as an island we just don't have the roaming space for them.

People saying it will keep the deer numbers in check, a pack of wolves is more likely to go after easy prey like cattle, sheep and chickens rather than wild deer.

Wolves have the ability to prey on any and all of our native wildlife not to mention pet cats, dogs and humans.

It's the strangest thing to be brought up in political arena for a while and the whole notion is a farce.

Tony EH

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Tbh, the posts here would indicate they don't give a damn.

It seems to be a more common and common occurrence these days on discussion fora and in political life too, it has to be said.

People tend to simply rattle off their first line of thinking that comes from an ill-considered stream of consciousness that hasn't been exposed to even the most basic smoke test to examine how rigorous their ideas are, because they don't care how ridiculous the actuality is.

In the case of this proposal, it falls apart at the first, and most blindingly obvious, hurdle. It doesn't even require that much pause for thought.

begsbyOnaTrain

whisky_galore wrote: »

Go off and patent it so.
There's a good lad.

I reckon these guys are probably working on what I described - https://enterprise.dji.com/news/detail/dji-drones-adopted-for-precision-ranching

I was beaten to the post.

HorrorScope

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

I mean for dealing with crows and stuff hassling them?

Go hard or go home - crows or wolves, such a drone would need to be capable of dropping explosives on them with pinpoint precision.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

I reckon these guys are probably working on what I described - https://enterprise.dji.com/news/detail/dji-drones-adopted-for-precision-ranching

I was beaten to the post.

Plenty of tech solutions already being used by farmers and in agriculture here for a multitude of purposes.

Ferm001

Would have to change building regulations first, no more timber frame housing. Remember reading some kind of article years ago about them boys making easy work of houses made of wood.

terrydel

Deleted User wrote: »

You're right. There should be designated safe spaces for bruised egos.

Yawn.

terrydel

No expert on the subject of wolves but inclined to agree with the many comments on the size of Ireland as a potential habitat for wolves.
Wolves cover very large distances in search of food and in a country the size of Ireland they would continually be coming into contact with livestock, farms, people etc. It just wouldnt work in my view.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_and_moose_on_Isle_Royale

Interesting 50+ year research study on wolves living in an island based national park.

Very different environment to here given that its much smaller and uninhabited. I wouldn't call it a success either way.

The wolves hunted coyotes there to extinction, and other species such as beaver and hare saw a decline too.

It was hoped that the wolf and moose populations would eventually balance, but both fluctuated up and down throughout the period with no real correlation.

An outsider wolf had managed to cross to the island on an ice bridge during the study, without his new genetics the wolf population would probably have died off a lot faster.

Either way, as of 2016, the wolf population was down to just two severely inbred wolves. A male and a female (the pair are father-daughter and share the same mother).

Decision was made to add more new wolves last year.

jmayo

terrydel wrote: »

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but can people stop using the term 'virtue signalling' as its nothing more than a way for people to act superior and denigrate the opinions others hold in good faith.
People have views, just because you dont agree with them or feel they are somehow 'leftie' doesnt make them virtue signalling. Its a really insulting term imho.

Ok then lets call a spade a spade.

They are gobshytes with their heads up their own holes who now and then come out with real stupid ideas or vehemently support others equally stupid ideas, usually because these ideas come from one of their heroes or some muppet they follow on some social media.

Just because someone holds an opinion in good faith does not mean it is a valid logical one that stands up to an ounce of scrutiny.

The fact that this emanated from an elected public representative, a former government minister, leader of a major political and at that a party that more often than not claims the moral high ground in lots of situations is even more enlightening of the said person's intelligence and capability.

We laugh at the current batch of politicians in Britain, we laugh at Trump but how is this suggestion any less stupid than the cr** they have come out with?

How can we take anything uttered by Ryan and the Greens seriously if they are stupid enough to think this was ever a runner.

Galwayguy35

We don't have a great track record here anyway when animals are re introduced, remember when eagles were brought back into the wild a few years ago?

They ended up being poisoned, probably by farmers who didn't want to see them making a comeback.

It really made us look bad as a country when others agree to let us have some of their wildlife and we end up killing them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We don't have a great track record here anyway when animals are re introduced, remember when eagles were brought back into the wild a few years ago?

They ended up being poisoned, probably by farmers who didn't want to see them making a comeback.

It really made us look bad as a country when others agree to let us have some of their wildlife and we end up killing them.

Have a look at the reality of wolves in everyday life in Lithuania from a poster in F&F.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108532032#post108532032

Galwayguy35

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Have a look at the reality of wolves in everyday life in Lithuania from a poster in F&F.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108532032#post108532032

Not sure why you're quoting me, I've never said they should be re introduced back.

begsbyOnaTrain

The Brits have us beat again by re-introducing bears - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/16/bears-and-wolves-to-coexist-in-uk-woods-in-conservation-project

Bears might be a better option here? They won't need as much ground as wolves and aren't as fast plus they can exist on their own.

whisky_galore

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

The Brits have us beat again by re-introducing bears - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/16/bears-and-wolves-to-coexist-in-uk-woods-in-conservation-project

Bears might be a better option here? They won't need as much ground as wolves and aren't as fast plus they can exist on their own.

I wouldn't be copying anything the British are doing right now.

Wanderer78

Us humans tend to fcuk up playing God a lot, so I'm not sure it's a good idea

ohnonotgmail

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

The Brits have us beat again by re-introducing bears - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/16/bears-and-wolves-to-coexist-in-uk-woods-in-conservation-project

Bears might be a better option here? They won't need as much ground as wolves and aren't as fast plus they can exist on their own.

a 300KG animal that can reach 30MPH is not something i would want to meet on a walk in the woods.

is_that_so

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

The Brits have us beat again by re-introducing bears - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/16/bears-and-wolves-to-coexist-in-uk-woods-in-conservation-project

Bears might be a better option here? They won't need as much ground as wolves and aren't as fast plus they can exist on their own.

We haven't had bears since the Ice Age. As others have said you need to look at how much potential wilderness is available to any species. Apart from that the country is just too small for such large predators.

paulbok

glasso wrote: »

maybe, but there should be a focus on improving the quality of the cougars in Ireland first and foremost.

Agreed, have you been to Barry's hotel lately?

begsbyOnaTrain

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a 300KG animal that can reach 30MPH is not something i would want to meet on a walk in the woods.

Just stand your ground. Other countries manage it, why not us?

If you do encounter a bear, remain calm and remember that the bear is likely more scared of you than you are of him. Attacks by black bears on people are very rare and most black bears can be easily scared away with the following approach:

Stand and face the bear directly. Never run away from or approach him.

Make yourself look as big as possible by spreading your arms or, better yet, a coat.

Make as much noise as possible by yelling, banging pots and pans or using other noisemaking devices.

If the bear approaches and you have bear spray, spray the bear as he approaches.

In the very rare case that a black bear does attack you, fight back (don’t play dead).

https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/what-do-about-black-bears

pgj2015

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Just stand your ground. Other countries manage it, why not us?



https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/what-do-about-black-bears

a lot of people are afraid of spiders, mice, rats etc you can imagine how they would be when faced with a bear. :rolleyes:

ohnonotgmail

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Just stand your ground. Other countries manage it, why not us?



https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/what-do-about-black-bears

The guardian article referred to brown bears not black bears. Black bears are smaller and less aggressive than brown bears. and i always love when they say something like this

remember that the bear is likely more scared of you than you are of him

jmayo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a 300KG animal that can reach 30MPH is not something i would want to meet on a walk in the woods.

Speaking of a walk in the woods ...
God bless Bill Bryson...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZsqoC3prs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The guardian article referred to brown bears not black bears. Black bears are smaller and less aggressive than brown bears. and i always love when they say something like this

You mean grizzlys :eek:
Beware black bears are the ones that climb.

ohnonotgmail

jmayo wrote: »

Speaking of a walk in the woods ...
God bless Bill Bryson...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZsqoC3prs

You mean grizzlys :eek:
Beware black bears are the ones that climb.

all grizzlies are brown bears but not all brown bears are grizzlies.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Just stand your ground. Other countries manage it, why not us?



https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/what-do-about-black-bears

There's a big difference between countries that have always lived alongside these animals and a country reintroducing them after hundreds of years.

The benefit of generations of people growing up in an environment that includes the likes of bears and wolves and the experience that goes along with that.

Here we have none of that, none of us or our grandparent or our great grandparents will have ever lived alongside a wolf/bear. We wouldn't have a clue!

paulbok

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Snakes and scorps??? Not in our plan, man. Has to be native Irish species

Like rats are native?

begsbyOnaTrain

Zayd Pitiful Beech wrote: »

There's a big difference between countries that have always lived alongside these animals and a country reintroducing them after hundreds of years.

The benefit of generations of people growing up in an environment that includes the likes of bears and wolves and the experience that goes along with that.

Here we have none of that, none of us or our grandparent or our great grandparents will have ever lived alongside a wolf/bear. We wouldn't have a clue!

Fair point. We seem crap at nature and natural outdoorsy-ness.

Buford T. Justice XIX

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Just stand your ground. Other countries manage it, why not us?



https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/what-do-about-black-bears

I'm curious as to how you would spread your arms wide while banging pots and pans together:D

Melodeon

Looks like it's time to post this old favourite:

cnocbui

Don't worry, when the next ice-age arrives, there'l be plenty of large white bears and wolves to go around.

jmayo

Melodeon wrote: »

Looks like it's time to post this old favourite:

I remember walking on my own in area of Canadian Provincial Park with loads of warnings about grizzlys. You could actually see claw marks up reasonably high on trees along path.

So to let the nearest grizzly know I was coming I decided to make noise as advised in all the books, etc.
And the only thing I could think think of was to sing The Fields of Athenry.

I always wondered if you are just advertising to a possible cranky desperately hungry bear that you are available to eat?

I also found out on that trip that whistling does indeed attract Caribou out of the trees towards you, but does not work with black bears.

Oh and bison are fooking sh** big up real close. :eek:

whisky_galore

begsbyOnaTrain wrote: »

Fair point. We seem crap at nature and natural outdoorsy-ness.

Not a month goes by that some weekend warrior has to be rescued off our glorified hills who shouldn't be up there in the first place.
People here can't cope with a spider in the bathtub let alone a fricking bear.

jmayo

whisky_galore wrote: »

Not a month goes by that some weekend warrior has to be rescued off our glorified hills who shouldn't be up there in the first place.
People here can't cope with a spider in the bathtub let alone a fricking bear.

Ah now look at plus points.
In a few years the snow tourists from Dublin stuck up in the Wicklow mountains will provide a nice tasty meal for all those wolves.

whisky_galore

jmayo wrote: »

Ah now look at plus points.
In a few years the snow tourists from Dublin stuck up in the Wicklow mountains will provide a nice tasty meal for all those wolves.

Meals on wheels.

Say my name

The Nal wrote: »

The Greens are really bored aren't they?

Should we introduce large bears and Siberian Tigers to Ireland?

My guess is the Green party have just received a large donation from corporate hi tech types probably who own or work for U.S.companies.
Pity cause they were just beginning to curry favour with the rural farmers who actually produce food for a living not bytes or gigabytes.

They've totally ****ed that up now!!


Go on now and eat your gigabytes Greens in your fantasy land.

Feisar

38% of us think we should? Lads, Game of Thrones is over.

machaseh

Ireland does not have enough forests to sustain a wolf population. Wolves belong in the forests, not in boring rolling hilly green grassland landscapes as you would find in most of Ireland. What is going to happen if yous introduce wolves here is they are just going to attack sheep and farmers are going to take matters into their own hands and shoot them.

In my country the Netherlands the wolves recently re-introduced themselves, they walked over from Germany and there's now a very small wolf population in the Netherlands. Unfortunately, we also don't really have enough forests to sustain them and many get killed by road traffic. So I don't think we'll have a big wolf population again as we had historically, we'll have only the odd wolf pack walking in from Germany and Belgium where there are more forests.

jmayo

machaseh wrote: »

...
In my country the Netherlands the wolves recently re-introduced themselves, they walked over from Germany and there's now a very small wolf population in the Netherlands. Unfortunately, we also don't really have enough forests to sustain them and many get killed by road traffic. ...

Fecking Germans at it again, always with the invading shyte ...

first it is the wolves, next thing you know it's panzers.

You see this is why the Brits voted for Brexit.:D

pgj2015

machaseh wrote: »

Ireland does not have enough forests to sustain a wolf population. Wolves belong in the forests, not in boring rolling hilly green grassland landscapes as you would find in most of Ireland. What is going to happen if yous introduce wolves here is they are just going to attack sheep and farmers are going to take matters into their own hands and shoot them.

In my country the Netherlands the wolves recently re-introduced themselves, they walked over from Germany and there's now a very small wolf population in the Netherlands. Unfortunately, we also don't really have enough forests to sustain them and many get killed by road traffic. So I don't think we'll have a big wolf population again as we had historically, we'll have only the odd wolf pack walking in from Germany and Belgium where there are more forests.

what is so exciting about a forest?

malinheader

NaFirinne wrote: »

Surely this is a joke?

The joke is called Eamonn Ryan. God help us if this idiot was ever to become the leader of this country. Were bad enough as it is.

whisky_galore

machaseh wrote: »

boring rolling hilly green grassland landscapes as you would find in most of Ireland.

Holland is even more boring and flat.

Feisar

pgj2015 wrote: »

what is so exciting about a forest?

It just is, not planted evergreen crap but there is just something about a natural deciduous forest.

Feisar

whisky_galore wrote: »

Holland is even more boring and flat.

Yea but the Dutch are the soundest bunch going.