Dirty cabin

Stovepipe

Once seen, the sight of a toilet where a citizen of not-Europe, who may be unfamiliar with Western toilets, has done a "dirty protest", is not forgotten. Friends, who had to strip out and deep-clean an aircraft that was handed back after a Summer in ME service, before they could even begin to carry out the C-Check, said that it was deeply corroded below the cabin, along it's full length, from human pee and essentially was only fit for scrap. To save face, the aircraft was rebuilt from the belly up to the windows.

Doop

Stovepipe wrote: »

.... and if the punters want a 25-minute turnaround, then you will get a barely cleaned aircraft, so if someone tips their sticky drink on the floor or soils a seat or leaves a toilet looking like an away day ..

To be fair as a punter I dont care about turn around times...they are not my concern they are the airlines. I only ask for a clean seat and my flight to hopefully leave on time. I will dispose of my rubbish and not leave the place in a mess but I dont expect to have to get onto a plane and start cleaning up myself before I can sit down!

Jack1985

Doop wrote: »

To be fair as a punter I dont care about turn around times...they are not my concern they are the airlines. I only ask for a clean seat and my flight to hopefully leave on time. I will dispose of my rubbish and not leave the place in a mess but I dont expect to have to get onto a plane and start cleaning up myself before I can sit down!

Yes but you the punter expect as certain fare and to be able to offer that fare the airlines need to be competitive which usually means an airframe (short-haul at least) needs to be operating at a minimum 6 sectors per day.

Crew go through the cabin multiple times but yet people fail to hand over rubbish. Landing transatlantics in our case (or long-haul in general) are the epitome of it.

Stovepipe

A good cleaning crew will clean a transatlantic A330 from "explosion in a haribo factory" to spotless in two hours. That's about 16 people working hard, to remove the impact of nearly 300 pax. When it gets to the far side, the same task will be repeated, as if it had been never done before. So, if a 330 does a typical JFK-DUB-AGP (malaga)-DUB-JFK in 24 hours, that's four total clean outs for the best part of a thousand people. Sometimes, that turnaround is done in 90 minutes or the flight is delayed because the clean-up is extra difficult. The ordinary punter doesnt grasp how much effort goes on behind the scenes, to remove their rubbish and make the aircraft fit for service inside 2 hours, not to mind maintenance and servicing tasks that are carried out. We often have to fix multiple cabin snags because the travelling public wear out the seats and other fittings and have been known to vandalise them out of boredom or just mindlessness. A320 arm rests are a particular favourite with the wreckers! So, airline punter, please tidy up your waste as you go, please do not break the seats / overhead bins / seat pockets / toilets, if at all possible and then ring up Liveline to gripe about it.

gman2k

kona wrote:

People are ****in animals. Ye pay to sit on a airplane. Throw yer **** in the bin when the crew go through the cabin.

And an unclean aircraft will only encourage even more dirty behaviour from passengers

PhilOssophy

Terrible isn't it, you'd think that somebody would clean up after the elite in our society as they jet around Europe, woe betide somebody might have to clean up after themselves.......

Stovepipe

Nothing to do with elitism; just ordinary poeple who simply think it's okay to drop food or fluids, bottles, cans, packaging and so on, precisely because airlines have cleaners. Like I said before, they wouldnt dare do it at home or in a restaurant but think doing so in an aircraft is acceptable.

faceman

kona wrote: »

Was she joking? Because that makes no sense on her part.

Definitely wasn’t joking

Jack1985

Jack1985 wrote: »

Yes but you the punter expect as certain fare and to be able to offer that fare the airlines need to be competitive which usually means an airframe (short-haul at least) needs to be operating at a minimum 6 sectors per day.

Crew go through the cabin multiple times but yet people fail to hand over rubbish. Landing transatlantics in our case (or long-haul in general) are the epitome of it.

Expecting a last-minute p[ass through of the cabin once it has been emptied is not exactly Hyacinth Bucket behaviour. I've been on planes where there were still empty crisp packets on the seats. Whatever about people not handing stuff over, and ignoring spills and stains for a second, the crew should do a walk through of the 15 or so rows that they're responsible for and grab any items that are just lying there. That's a minimum standard to be expected anywhere.

Jack1985

Deleted User wrote: »

Expecting a last-minute p[ass through of the cabin once it has been emptied is not exactly Hyacinth Bucket behaviour. I've been on planes where there were still empty crisp packets on the seats. Whatever about people not handing stuff over, and ignoring spills and stains for a second, the crew should do a walk through of the 15 or so rows that they're responsible for and grab any items that are just lying there. That's a minimum standard to be expected anywhere.

EI cabin crew are not required to clean on the ground and do not. That's not going to change. EI decided a few years ago to stop cleaning at outstations and perform quick walkthroughs by its cleaners in DUB on most short-haul aircraft, that's their decision and thus by feeding back to them is the only way that will change.

People leaving items are responsible for it, I'm beyond listening to the likes of ''grab any items'' if the general public are that inept of being able to dispose their own rubbish to crew during rubbish collections they can sit in it frankly.

That's the issue, though. I, as a paying customer, do not want to sit in someone else's filth. It has nothing to do with me. Lumping all passengers into the one category and saying "passengers made it, so passengers can sit in it" is farcical.

Imagine sitting down at a restaurant and the table was full of cutlery and dirty dishes and being expected to stack it and dispose of it yourself because management were of the opinion of "you made, you clean it".

PhilOssophy

Would people be shocked if they got on a bus and saw this?

I would if I was asked to pay €250 for a ticket and expected to sit in the seat for 3hrs

Jack1985

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the issue, though. I, as a paying customer, do not want to sit in someone else's filth. It has nothing to do with me. Lumping all passengers into the one category and saying "passengers made it, so passengers can sit in it" is farcical.

Imagine sitting down at a restaurant and the table was full of cutlery and dirty dishes and being expected to stack it and dispose of it yourself because management were of the opinion of "you made, you clean it".

I'm not disagreeing with you, the issue here is the members of the travelling public who think it's acceptable in the first instance to discard of waste on to the floor, in seat pockets etc on aircraft and believe they have the divine right for someone to clean up after them.

If I take a bus and bring a sandwich etc on with me it leaves with me, if there's someone who passes through on a bus with a bin and asks for waste I will hand it over. Not just throw it flippantly on to the floor.

PhilOssophy

Deleted User wrote: »

I would if I was asked to pay €250 for a ticket and expected to sit in the seat for 3hrs

Does the €250 mean somebody should clean up after people?
Imagine the outrage if Ryanair added a "cleaning up after scummy people" charge.

Jack1985

Jack1985 wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you, the issue here is the members of the travelling public who think it's acceptable in the first instance to discard of waste on to the floor, in seat pockets etc on aircraft and believe they have the divine right for someone to clean up after them.

Yes, they shouldn't do that. But people are scumbags and plenty of people do wreck the place and leave crap everywhere. Expecting the next paying customer to clean up after them instead of putting measures in place to mitigate against the issue is a one way ticket to going out of business.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Does the €250 mean somebody should clean up after people?

Frankly, yes, but to put it another way........paying €250 means that I shouldn't have to clean up before I sit down.

Dante7

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Does the €250 mean somebody should clean up after people?
Imagine the outrage if Ryanair added a "cleaning up after scummy people" charge.

Ryanair do add a "cleaning up after scummy people charge". It is factored into the airfare and is used to pay the staff who clean the aircraft.

PhilOssophy

Does €250 mean you don't have to clean up after yourself? What is the threshold above which you don't have to clean up?
Look at the cinema the next time you leave and tell me cost matters 1 bit, the problem is the attitude of people. "Somebody else will clean up after me".

Jack1985

Deleted User wrote: »

Expecting the next paying customer to clean up after them instead of putting measures in place to mitigate against the issue is a one way ticket to going out of business.

Unfortunately though that synopsis doesn't hold up, because its been the norm at EI since 2015 and financial results have gone in one direction.

elperello

Some posters seem to be advocating a kind of Clean Seat Lottery where the lucky passengers get to sit in a clean seat if the person before them was responsible and tidy.

The lottery losers get to sit in a dirty seat.

billy few mates

Stovepipe wrote: »

For info, EI's aircraft get a deep clean inside and out about every six to eight weeks; that's carpet changes....

Carpet changes every six weeks...?
I doubt that.

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Does €250 mean you don't have to clean up after yourself? What is the threshold above which you don't have to clean up?
Look at the cinema the next time you leave and tell me cost matters 1 bit, the problem is the attitude of people. "Somebody else will clean up after me".

You're missing the point, whether that's on purpose or not is unclear.

I'm a paying customer, I'm handing over hundreds of euro to use your service. I don't give a monkeys what the filthy fecker who sat in the seat earlier did or did not do.......not only do I expect a clean plane, but I demand a clean seat. Telling your customers that they're sh1t outta luck because the last guy didn't pick up after them is farcical. I genuinely cannot believe people are saying that's ok.

Mebuntu

We went a bit off topic for a while. I think everyone already knows that, everywhere not just on planes, some people will always leave their rubbish behind them for others to clean up and that includes the so-called Green-Clean wise youth who assemble for all sorts of activities and who leave mountains of it behind them.

It is interesting to read the Skytrax ratings that Aer Lingus Short Haul received in 2016 to warrant a 4-Star award. The Cabin/Seat cleanliness and Washroom Cleanliness only got 3.5 out of 5 which seems low-ish to me for an essential requirement.

https://skytraxratings.com/airlines/aer-lingus-rating

wagtail99

A couple of years ago Joe Duffy ran for a few days a story about difficult it was was to use/redeem Aer Lingus Gift Vouchers. It seemed that Aer Lingus were making lots of money through people not being able to use their vouchers that then became invalid after a year, with no refund. The story was then suddenly dropped with no followi-up.

Also, I see that the original post was about a longish flight to a holiday/resort destination, I wonder if that is part of the problem, lots of younger children with snacks etc

Locker10a

wagtail99 wrote: »

A couple of years ago Joe Duffy ran for a few days a story about difficult it was was to use/redeem Aer Lingus Gift Vouchers. It seemed that Aer Lingus were making lots of money through people not being able to use their vouchers that then became invalid after a year, with no refund. The story was then suddenly dropped with no followi-up.

Also, I see that the original post was about a longish flight to a holiday/resort destination, I wonder if that is part of the problem, lots of younger children with snacks etc

I think they should re instate cleaning on selected routes like holiday ones with lots of families

Stovepipe

billy few mates wrote: »

Carpet changes every six weeks...?
I doubt that.

the carpet gets changed if it has worn through or is too stained to clean, especially if someone has puked on it. Sometimes, it's merely a section about 10 feet long, other times, it's the whole aisle or underseat. I've done it myself on A checks as well as on the deep clean.

billy few mates

Stovepipe wrote: »

the carpet gets changed if it has worn through or is too stained to clean, especially if someone has puked on it. Sometimes, it's merely a section about 10 feet long, other times, it's the whole aisle or underseat. I've done it myself on A checks as well as on the deep clean.

So not every six weeks then.

Strumms

From what I recall, Aer Lingus cabin crew will go around the cabin asking for rubbish and waste prior to the descent, so it’s a very simple task of grasping the waste you are responsible for with your hands and handing it back to the cabin crew.. not difficult... if you can’t manage that ‘you’ are the problem not Aer Lingus or their cabin crew or cleaners... they are actively approaching you in your seat asking for the rubbish.

Mebuntu

Strumms wrote: »

From what I recall, Aer Lingus cabin crew will go around the cabin asking for rubbish and waste prior to the descent, so it’s a very simple task of grasping the waste you are responsible for with your hands and handing it back to the cabin crew.. not difficult... if you can’t manage that ‘you’ are the problem not Aer Lingus or their cabin crew or cleaners... they are actively approaching you in your seat asking for the rubbish.

This thread began with mention of a complaint about the poor state of the cabin and toilets on a flight and progressed further in that we have now had it confirmed here that the policy of the airline was changed to the effect that the cabins are not cleaned between flights like they used to. (as told by CC onboard to the original complainant).

Nobody is disputing that the cause of the problem is the previous passengers who didn't hand over their rubbish and/or threw it in the pocket or on the floor or left it on the seat but this thread is not about that. It's about whether or not the airline should just leave it there to upset the next set of passengers or have it cleaned before they arrive on board and all the more because they are a 4 Star airline.

tototoe

Laughable to put the onus on the passenger to keep an aircraft clean, so the airline can have a quick turn around or get there on time.

It's a.complete copout and says more about aerlingus than any passenger