Ireland vs Russia, RWC pool A, Kobe, 11.15am Irish time

Riskymove

MJohnston wrote: »

You've contradicted this sentence with your last two sentences...

no he hasn't

he is talking about finishing at least second

the last two sentences are about coming first


however he overlooks the possibility of a three way tie

of we get a bonus point against samoa we are definitely through at least second


the problem is that means Scotland are out and may be less motivated against Japan

TheCitizen

tonycascarino wrote: »

New Zealand will be licking their lips in the quarters...if we get there. We are in for a hammering.

We're guaranteed to get there with a win over Samoa. We'll avoid New Zealand if Scotland beat Japan, I'd say New Zealand would prefer that outcome

Salary Negotiator

It would be very Scottish for them to play the game of their life against Japan, win and still not qualify.

prawnsambo

Joe with a bit of humour. I think...

lawred2

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Kleyn according to ESPN

4 carries for 0m
6 tackles and 1 missed

so an inanimate carbon rod then?

Podge_irl

TheCitizen wrote: »

We're guaranteed to get there with a win over Samoa.

Almost but not quite guaranteed.

Niallof9

OK two piss poor performances back to back. Who knows maybe we're **** in the group but win a quarter. Would be a typical Irish sports story.

In the last 2 World Cups we've had a big performance in the pools against big sides. I'm not counting Scotland who are poor.

5 points move on to Samoa. I'd never want to rematch that match.

partyguinness

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Didn't we beat Russia by 50 points in 2011?

Besides that one time obviously.

lleti

The excuses are being made already, the humidity while Wales go out and win v Australia.

Portsalon

partyguinness wrote: »

When have Ireland ever gone out in a competitive game and trashed minnows in rugby or football? Never.

55 - 11 V Zimbabwe in 1991 RWC

50 - 28 V Japan 1995 RWC

53 - 8 V USA 1999 RWC

64 - 7 V Namibia 2003 RWC

But, other than that ......................................

jones

I actually think Scotland will beat Japan i know based on what we've seen that seems mad but reckon they will. Be an open game and high scoring too i'd imagine.

Ireland were muck today but got the job done, they were always on a hiding to nothing even if they won by 50/60 points doesn't make any difference really. I think the Samoa match will be the real indicator of where they are at. What is it in the Irish psyche about being underdogs? As someone said above i think we'll perform against NZ/SA but ultimately lose unless theres some turn around

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would have expected Japan to beat them by a lot more than 20 as well. And for Samoa to beat them by more considering they were playing a game 4 days after looking visibly shattered for 20 min against Japan. But neither of those things happened so I dunno.

But Japan and Samoa weren't ranked number 1 in the world. Doesn't look good for challenging the big teams.

Deaf student

Need Marmion and Toner back all is forgiven.

It seems to me that schmidt got his selections wrong re final 31. Russia made kleyn look very ordinary club player not an international. Toner not picked cos of his previous injuries or fitness????
POM a penalty machine, take him off if he continue like that not worth it cos that's a weakness that any team would take an advantage of that with a good kicker would put a dent in points.

I think Japan are a much fitter side than Scotland or Ireland as they used rest periods Ave 8 days between games and also their familiarity with home climate such as humidity.

Niallof9

Fair enough Joe pointing to hellish conditions.

whatawaster

Riskymove wrote: »

however he overlooks the possibility of a three way tie

In that case is it points difference?

thebaz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who gives a s**t about a group match against Russia, we needed 5 points, we got 5 points.....end of story

Move on and get to next match....


All that matters is Ireland get out of group.....the only performance worth talking about is in the Qtr's.....


Playing great in the group like we have done before means f**k all at the end of the day when we get knocked out in Qtr's

I fail to see how a team can lift performace to the level required to beat probably NZ - even if we were playing at our 2018 level winning that quater was going to be really hard, right now just cant see how we can win it

tonycascarino

Niallof9 wrote: »

OK two piss poor performances back to back. Who knows maybe we're **** in the group but win a quarter. Would be a typical Irish sports story.

I have absolutely know idea where some people's optimism comes from. We have never ever got passed a quarter final of a World Cup and it is definitely not going to happen this time either. We will be obliterated by New Zealand. Any other thought is unrealistic.

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't seen the relevance of the form of the Irish football team

It highlights form and a general inability to run up high scores against perceived minnows.

Weepsie

prawnsambo wrote: »

I'm struggling to come up with other players we could have brought other than perhaps Marmion and Toner.

Missing henshaw too so far, and we are most definitely missing Leavy.

D.Q

We will beat SA or NZ.

partyguinness

Portsalon wrote: »

55 - 11 V Zimbabwe in 1991 RWC

50 - 28 V Japan 1995 RWC

53 - 8 V USA 1999 RWC

64 - 7 V Namibia 2003 RWC

But, other than that ......................................

Oh come on. The first three are in the last century and two in the amateur era.


Leaving out those wins and 2011 against Russia NEVER I tell ya...

tonycascarino

D.Q wrote: »

We will beat SA or NZ.

Maybe if we played them in hurling or gaelic football. Haven't a notion of beating either at the RWC though.

is_that_so

D.Q wrote: »

We will beat SA or NZ.

We might if we play well enough!

Riskymove

whatawaster wrote: »

In that case is it points difference?

I know

I mean that a win against Samoa may not actually be enough if it ends up a three way tie


only a BP win ensures we go through

Scotland would have to beat Japan to come second. if not then we'd be second to japan

Weepsie

lleti wrote: »

The excuses are being made already, the humidity while Wales go out and win v Australia.

Humidity is close to 90% in Kobe while was closer to 70 in Tokyo.

Riskymove

Weepsie wrote: »

Humidity is close to 90% in Kobe while was closer to 70 in Tokyo.

and the fecking roof was closed too

Niallof9

tonycascarino wrote: »

I have absolutely know idea where some people's optimism comes from. We have never ever got passed a quarter final of a World Cup and it is definitely not going to happen this time either. We will be obliterated by New Zealand. Any other thought is unrealistic.

No i'm negative niall just clutching at straws. Joeball is over. The well is dry. Just pure hope now. Passion maybe...seems to have been lost a little in such robotic tactics.

Who knows the conditions play a part. Will be cooler come the quarters.

Sexton looked in good nick. Ringrose motoring along.

phog

We were fair poor there, played a game with two sinbinnings and never really looked in control. We took a few chances and butchered more. I'm not seeing an improvement as we progress.

How unlucky is Murphy, late call up and injured within 20 minutes of play - poor sod.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

i gave my prediction already on the irish thread.. ireland will win in a scrappy 48 - 8 type win.... lots of handling errors.
we will finish with something like 60% possession and even more territory.

Russia will be made to make substantial tackling stats because of this possession, but will still miss something like 25 tackles in the game.
TBP is the aim here. Once its achieved id expect sexton to be brought off (hopefully with more than 20 to go).

the breakdown will be an absolute mess as usual when garces refs.

happy enough with that prediction.

I wasnt expecting any much more than what we got out there, but not grabbing at least one more try was a bit disappointing seeing as we were playing against 14 for 20 minutes.

Weepsie

Weepsie wrote: »

Humidity is close to 90% in Kobe while was closer to 70 in Tokyo.

The Ireland players looked wrecked in both matches. More so against Japan.

Japan targeted being the fittest team in the WC and to use that as a weapon by running back instead of kicking and bringing fierce intensity, forcing the opponents to work more.

Whatever it was, the body language of the Irish team in the Japan game was shocking.

When you so James Ryan, a 23 year-old looking to be in pieces going off at 1/2 time, it was not good.

Riskymove

Niallof9 wrote: »

Who knows the conditions play a part. Will be cooler come the quarters.

still likely 25 or so - the humidity is question

forecast is currently for rain for QF weekend

our QFs if we get there are the first each day so around 1600 rather than the later one unfortunately

reg114

Niallof9 wrote: »

No i'm negative niall just clutching at straws. Joeball is over. The well is dry. Just pure hope now. Passion maybe...seems to have been lost a little in such robotic tactics.

Who knows the conditions play a part. Will be cooler come the quarters.

Sexton looked in good nick. Ringrose motoring along.

Sexton went off with a thigh strain.

prawnsambo

Weepsie wrote: »

Missing henshaw too so far, and we are most definitely missing Leavy.

Yeah, but we brought Henshaw and we couldn't bring Leavy, so that's why I'm struggling with the OP saying there were players we should have brought.

WeleaseWoderick

Second half really wasn't enjoyable to watch at all. Thankfully we got the 4th try relatively early as we just look panicked when we try forcing the game at all.

Conditions did look pretty appalling for handling and I felt in the first half, we controlled the game smartly in terms of pinning Russia in their half.

Jack Carty had some nice touches but the calmness that Sexton brings to the backline doesn't seem to be there when anyone else plays 10.

I've been hoping for Rhys Ruddock to get an opportunity for a while and he was by far the stand out player. Thought Ringrose and Conway had decent enough games too.

On the down side though, Aki, Kleyn, Ryan and Henderson when he came on, all had really poor games.

Gutted for Jordi Murphy if he has to go home after just 25 mins of the World Cup too.

Shefwedfan

thebaz wrote: »

I fail to see how a team can lift performace to the level required to beat probably NZ - even if we were playing at our 2018 level winning that quater was going to be really hard, right now just cant see how we can win it

Let go back to 2013....


Ireland played Somoa and won 40 - 9 (not a great game)
Lost to Australia 15-32(got hammered in reality)
Ireland v NZ ( 22 - 24)


No form going into that game and we should have beat them.....


They won today, they beat Scotland, they will most probably win next week.

Gidea

Weepsie wrote: »

Humidity is close to 90% in Kobe while was closer to 70 in Tokyo.

Humidity is generally 75% plus in Ireland at all times. We've played in wales with the roof closed in similar humidity. Don't get why it's such a big deal now just because it's a few degrees hotter.

And the camp in Portugal seems a bit weird in hindsight as they have a much lower average humidity.

Shefwedfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

No i'm negative niall just clutching at straws. Joeball is over. The well is dry. Just pure hope now. Passion maybe...seems to have been lost a little in such robotic tactics.

Who knows the conditions play a part. Will be cooler come the quarters.

Sexton looked in good nick. Ringrose motoring along.

Give up with the Joeball s**t

it was stupid when used for Gatland and it is f**king idiotic to use in reference to Ireland.

Podge_irl

Gidea wrote: »

Humidity is generally 75% plus in Ireland at all times. We've played in wales with the roof closed in similar humidity. Don't get why it's such a big deal now just because it's a few degrees hotter.

And the camp in Portugal seems a bit weird in hindsight as they have a much lower average humidity.

The same humidity at higher temperatures means a lot more moisture content in the air. It is more than a "few" degrees warmer as well - a 6N game is probably unlikely to get above mid-teens in temperature. Also the humidity there was over 90%.

evil_seed

evil_seed wrote: »

Connacht put 42 points on Russia. If Ireland can't better that then there's no hope.
I'm expecting Ireland to start slow and grind out the win. The scoreboard will look lopsided but the game won't represent that.

:cool:

Shefwedfan

Gidea wrote: »

Humidity is generally 75% plus in Ireland at all times. We've played in wales with the roof closed in similar humidity. Don't get why it's such a big deal now just because it's a few degrees hotter.

And the camp in Portugal seems a bit weird in hindsight as they have a much lower average humidity.

Have you ever gone or travelled in Asia?

Deaf student

Asia was far more in terms of humidity way beyond Ireland or Portugal temp. Was in Portugal before with 39 degrees heat and little humidity. Asia counts far more re humidity temps as it snaps the energy. New York was bit similar too in certain season.

Niallof9

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Give up with the Joeball s**t

it was stupid when used for Gatland and it is f**king idiotic to use in reference to Ireland.

its shorthand to describe our tactics. Yeah i never agreed with the warrenball term since we played such fugly ball ourselves.

And if one's played rugby at any level you'd know that carry, ruck, carry, ruck is one of the hardest ways to play for any forward at any level. At this elite level it must be so so hard in those conditions. So no I won't stop using it unless you stop defending **** performances that are a result from using this tactic.

In this humidity it could be seen as sadistic really.

MJohnston

Gidea wrote: »

Humidity is generally 75% plus in Ireland at all times. We've played in wales with the roof closed in similar humidity. Don't get why it's such a big deal now just because it's a few degrees hotter.

And the camp in Portugal seems a bit weird in hindsight as they have a much lower average humidity.

Humidity is a percentage because it’s related to the air temperature- so 75% humidity at 15 degrees is much lower air-moisture content than 75% humidity at 25 degrees.

Shefwedfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

Nah i won't its shorthand to describe our tactics.

And if one's played rugby at any level you'd know that carry, ruck, carry, ruck is one of the hardest ways to play for any forward at any level. At this elite level it must be so so hard in those conditions. So no I won't stop using it unless you stop defending **** performances.

In this humidity it could be seen as sadistic really.

What do SA do? remind me how many WC they have won

You havent touched a rugby ball in your life, it is clear from every post on here......

You miss the cross field kicks from Sexton? the tries when they ran up the wing?

As I posted, this is a group game.....who cares about it.....they wanted a bonus point and got it. End of story.

As I said Joeball is idiotic.....Warrenball was idiotic and used by peopel who had no understanding of the game of rugby.....continue to use it all you want....says more about you than anything about Ireland or Joe

blackwhite

Riskymove wrote: »

no he hasn't

he is talking about finishing at least second

the last two sentences are about coming first


however he overlooks the possibility of a three way tie

of we get a bonus point against samoa we are definitely through at least second


the problem is that means Scotland are out and may be less motivated against Japan

No it doesn't.

If Scotland get a BP against Russia, then beating Japan with a BP, or beating Japan by more than 7 would leave Scotland, at worst, level on points with Japan - and Scotland would then hold the head-to-head over the Nippon

lawrencesummers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You just moan, whats the point in watching rugby if you just moan the whole time?

Its very hard to take positives from a game like that. We came into the comp first in the world and made hard work of a team of part timers ranked 20th.

Thats a team worse than Spain, Samoa, USA FFS.

That was a brutal performance. We should be capable of putting 80 points on a team like that.

Niallof9

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What do SA do? remind me how many WC they have won


You havent touched a rugby ball in your life, it is clear from every post on here......



You miss the cross field kicks from Sexton? the tries when they ran up the wing?



As I posted, this is a group game.....who cares about it.....they wanted a bonus point and got it. End of story.

What do cross field kicks have to do with shape etc. They were brilliant from Sexton but its not really a solid game plan kicking on advantages. That was a good try but i didn't see much of it for about 25 minutes against 14 men. Its probably all a ruse.

You sure about that yeah? fun fact i played with Ireland's captain, jack mcgrath, toner...so whatever. But yeah this is elite rugby miles above the AIL. The players do a magnificent job.So yeah look if you wanna put your money where your mouth is i'll pm you my club and if you play for one of the clubs we can see who's not touched a rugby ball.

anywho...

Who cares about form right?


We can just stroll into the quarters showing no form.

And we'll all share a chuckle after the loss. Talk of a new four year cycle, learnings, getting back on the horse and turn our thoughts to the European games and Six Nations having wasted another 4 years.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Give up with the Joeball s**t

it was stupid when used for Gatland and it is f**king idiotic to use in reference to Ireland.

it's not really. you just don't like it.

even the commentators use the terms "clinical style", "conservative" etc which is just a euphemism for the same thing.

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Its very hard to take positives from a game like that. We came into the comp first in the world and made hard work of a team of part timers ranked 20th.

Thats a team worse than Spain, Samoa, USA FFS.

That was a brutal performance. We should be capable of putting 80 points on a team like that.

The point of the game was to get 5 points.....that is done


The point is to get out of the group and that is still on track


Losing player to injury is the issue. Nordi was playing well up till injury.


We need to decide what to do with Carbery. I can see why he is keeping him out but he is a waste of spot if never fit

Niallof9

glasso wrote: »

it's not really. you just don't like it.

even the commentators use the terms "clinical style", "conservative" etc which is just a euphemism for the same thing.

exactly. Stuart Barnes was talking about it on Aussie tv. Saying it worked once upon a time. And joe just has to keep going with it the NZ wins means he won't ever change his methods.

Andy Dunne who uses the "stupid" term also saids we just have to double down now. No changing it.

Its infuriating for me but i realise some people like it fair enough.


Like i said we'll go out underdogs having pretended we were never number 1 or having beaten nz...lose (i dont wish for that) and then say we gave it our best shot...even though the only reason we got to NZ is cause we **** the bed against japan. Its a joke, its like the four year cycle talk. We never ever use the four year cycle to develop our playing styles and we get caught with not having given enough game time to people (carbery in this instance)

We'll move on to Europe, a new six nations. Next November we'll laud a big one off win and on we go. There has to be a stage where you go....no..enough.

This is it really. A loss in 1/4 along with Japan means 2019, on top of 2015 were disasters. Irreparable damage to Irish rugby imo if that transpires. Particularly as Farrell is our new head coach. He has a huge say in all of this.

Anyway we go again