Ireland vs Russia, RWC pool A, Kobe, 11.15am Irish time

clsmooth

Niallof9 wrote: »

fun fact i played with Ireland's captain, jack mcgrath, toner...so whatever.

So has Dave Kearney who you don’t rate. Where did it all go wrong for you though?

D.Q

Niallof9 wrote: »

You sure about that yeah? fun fact i played with Ireland's captain, jack mcgrath, toner...so whatever. But yeah this is elite rugby miles above the AIL.
.

:pac::pac::pac:

Niallof9

clsmooth wrote: »

So has Dave Kearney. Where did it all go wrong for you though?

ok shared a field is a better more accurate description. I didn't imply that made it any way decent. the lad with the soccer handle questioned whether i played i didn't ask whether he had? I've played rugby for 28 years. Doesn't mean i know anything. We are all barstool pundits. I only said that if you hae tried it you'd know its a very hard way of playing and thats at amateur level...the level the Russians are basically at if the AIL was paid. I'm using it as a defence for the players. Not once have i criticized them apart from Kleyn. they are warriors and Schmidt beasts them.

I wasn't good enough i was a ruck inspector who would die in this type of gameplan.

Can anyway actually argue in favour of this way of playing. And not counting back the past. Currently...

I miss whiff of cordite...a Schmidt fan but was very balanced.

shootermacg

Niallof9 wrote: »

ok shared a field is a better more accurate description.

Pics or GTFO!

whatcanidonow

Joeball works well I think. It's like the Jack Charlton era in soccer. Boring stuff, was effective but seems to be lost now. Actually some of the reaction from the players reminds me of another era in soccer. Remember when Steve Staunton was our manager? I think it was when we beat San Marino 2-1 or maybe the 5-2 defeat to Cyprus but he was saying that San Marino/Cyprus were better than we all think and they'll cause other teams trouble in the group. The same thing is happening in this world cup. We're talking up Japan and Russia to try to save face.

Shefwedfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

exactly. Stuart Barnes was talking about it on Aussie tv. Saying it worked once upon a time. And joe just has to keep going with it the NZ wins means he won't ever change his methods.

Andy Dunne who uses the "stupid" term also saids we just have to double down now. No changing it.

Its infuriating for me but i realise some people like it fair enough.


Like i said we'll go out underdogs having pretended we were never number 1 or having beaten nz...lose (i dont wish for that) and then say we gave it our best shot...even though the only reason we got to NZ is cause we **** the bed against japan. Its a joke, its like the four year cycle talk. We never ever use the four year cycle to develop our playing styles and we get caught with not having given enough game time to people (carbery in this instance)

We'll move on to Europe, a new six nations. Next November we'll laud a big one off win and on we go. There has to be a stage where you go....no..enough.

This is it really. A loss in 1/4 along with Japan means 2019, on top of 2015 were disasters. Irreparable damage to Irish rugby imo if that transpires. Particularly as Farrell is our new head coach. He has a huge say in all of this.

Anyway we go again

Every post you seem to reference some sort of commentator or rugby player, you have no opinions of your own?

If you did play rugby would you not have some sort of understanding of the game? Regurgitated the stuff on radio/tv which is fired out to make people listen

Andy Dunne got on radio and was positive and they didn’t have back for ages, came back and was mr negative and now on every week.....just shows you

Riskymove

Gidea wrote: »

Humidity is generally 75% plus in Ireland at all times. We've played in wales with the roof closed in similar humidity. Don't get why it's such a big deal now just because it's a few degrees hotter.

And the camp in Portugal seems a bit weird in hindsight as they have a much lower average humidity.

lads this has been explained a number of times on the threads already

Riskymove

blackwhite wrote: »

No it doesn't.

yep

that dawned on me since alright

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

ok shared a field is a better more accurate description.

Pitch invader?

whatcanidonow

It seems the excuses are being lined up already. Yes it's humid, most countries are not used to this humidity.

whatawaster

Niallof9 wrote: »

Irreparable damage to Irish rugby imo if that transpires

That's way OTT in my view.

We have excellent young players coming through in all provinces, but particularly Leinster. All of the provinces play good rugby, it's just a matter of developing that at International level. We have very good structures in place, underachievement at another WC won't change that.

troyzer

The dream is dying.

It looks like we've once again made a balls of the world cup. And it hurts more this time.

The All Blacks similarly were chronic underachievers at the world cup. Whatever they did after 2007 is what we need to do. We just seem incapable of performing on the big stage.

partyguinness

troyzer wrote: »

The All Blacks similarly were chronic underachievers at the world cup. Whatever they did after 2007 is what we need to do. We just seem incapable of performing on the big stage.

A home WC in 2011 was a start.

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

The dream is dying.

It looks like we've once again made a balls of the world cup. And it hurts more this time.

The All Blacks similarly were chronic underachievers at the world cup. Whatever they did after 2007 is what we need to do. We just seem incapable of performing on the big stage.

With 3 games into a WC we have 2 bonus point wins and a bonus point loss


Very quick for people to call our demise.....

If we said that at the start of tournament without saying who results where against we would say it wasn't ideal but still in our hands to get out of group......

MadYaker

troyzer wrote: »

The dream is dying.

It looks like we've once again made a balls of the world cup. And it hurts more this time.

The All Blacks similarly were chronic underachievers at the world cup. Whatever they did after 2007 is what we need to do. We just seem incapable of performing on the big stage.

Can we save this talk until we’ve actually gone home?? Some serious misery junkies in this forum.

whatcanidonow

Shefwedfan wrote: »

With 3 games into a WC we have 2 bonus point wins and a bonus point loss


Very quick for people to call our demise.....

If we said that at the start of tournament without saying who results where against we would say it wasn't ideal but still in our hands to get out of group......

Let's not rewrite history. We got a really easy group. Most expected us to beat Scotland and Japan, rest players for Russia and Samoa and then go 100% at South Africa or New Zealand.

Shefwedfan

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Let's not rewrite history. We got a really easy group. Most expected us to beat Scotland and Japan, rest players for Russia and Samoa and then go 100% at South Africa or New Zealand.

How is it rewriting history?



Most expected Sout Africa to beat Japan


The point at the start of this tournament was to get to a semi and maybe further. When has that changed?

whatcanidonow

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is it rewriting history?



Most expected Sout Africa to beat Japan


The point at the start of this tournament was to get to a semi and maybe further. When has that changed?

It's changed from aiming to get to a semi final to aiming not to get thrashed in the quarter final. Obviously, the players have to still believe but the reality of our form is there for all to see.

Niallof9

whatcanidonow wrote: »

It's changed from aiming to get to a semi final to aiming not to get thrashed in the quarter final. Obviously, the players have to still believe but the reality of our form is there for all to see.

agreed, bit of a sea change. typical really. We slag other nations for it.

Although the players obviously don't think like that so are a bit removed from it. Could be a good thing that its far away etc less hype with no day matches here etc.

Everybodys hoping now. We are best at being underdogs its just the way it is.

Shefwedfan

whatcanidonow wrote: »

It's changed from aiming to get to a semi final to aiming not to get thrashed in the quarter final. Obviously, the players have to still believe but the reality of our form is there for all to see.

Sorry I dont understand....


the aim at the start is to get to a semi.....why would any of the players think they are going to get a "trashed" in the Qtr?


Form since start of WC session


W
L
W
W
W
L
W


What would suggest a thrashing in that form?

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

It's changed from aiming to get to a semi final to aiming not to get thrashed in the quarter final. Obviously, the players have to still believe but the reality of our form is there for all to see.

If we lose the quarter-final I couldn't really care less whether its by 1 point or 20.

I think we still have a very reasonable chance of beating South Africa, though a much smaller one of beating NZ.

Pauliedragon

At this rate us getting through the quarters would be as big a shock as Japan beating us.

tonycascarino

troyzer wrote: »

The dream is dying.

It looks like we've once again made a balls of the world cup. And it hurts more this time.

The All Blacks similarly were chronic underachievers at the world cup. Whatever they did after 2007 is what we need to do. We just seem incapable of performing on the big stage.

We never had a chance of winning this World Cup. It was always just hype á la the English football team and some people bought into it. An achievement for Ireland would have been getting past the quarter final stage, something which we never managed to do and clearly not going to do so at this World Cup either.

lawred2

tonycascarino wrote: »

We never had a chance of winning this World Cup. It was always just hype á la the English football team and some people bought into it. An achievement for Ireland would have been getting past the quarter final stage, something which we never managed to do and clearly not going to do so at this World Cup either.

Hmmm - false narrative that really - winning the WC was never truly on anyone's mind. Getting to a semi final for the first time ever was. And as far as I can tell, the QF is pretty much all that I've seen anyone focused on.

Podge_irl

Pauliedragon wrote: »

At this rate us getting through the quarters would be as big a shock as Japan beating us.

Doubt the bookies will agree but let's see.

Niallof9

W - poor Italy side - Joey looked good.
L - thrashed by a record margin - only a friendly
W - Wales B team - nothing game
W - good win - last game for joe and best
W - Scotland a poor side - clinical and impressive
L - to Japan - heat, humidity, underestimating
W - poorly enough to a team that is equivalent to an AIL side - a nothing game

Plenty of signs this year that we are faltering.

Reasons for a win. Wins in SA, Australia, NZ, Paris, the Grand Slam. Can we draw from that well? Yeah but it will take a monumental effort if its New Zealand.

whatcanidonow

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry I dont understand....


the aim at the start is to get to a semi.....why would any of the players think they are going to get a "trashed" in the Qtr?


Form since start of WC session


W
L
W
W
W
L
W


What would suggest a thrashing in that form?

I didn't say players.

Our form has been awful. Beaten by Japan and struggling to break down the worst team in the tournament.

FrancieBrady

tonycascarino wrote: »

We never had a chance of winning this World Cup. It was always just hype á la the English football team and some people bought into it. An achievement for Ireland would have been getting past the quarter final stage, something which we never managed to do and clearly not going to do so at this World Cup either.

Getting by SA or NZ (think about the pedigree at a WC of those teams) was always going to be a huge challenge. We have confidence that we can compete in a game like that and if we can fix things (that are in our gift to fix), I see no reason why we cannot compete again.

One game at a time, we have problems, today was much much better than Japan and a 35 - 0 Bonus point victory. Which is what was asked for.

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

If we lose the quarter-final I couldn't really care less whether its by 1 point or 20.

I think we still have a very reasonable chance of beating South Africa, though a much smaller one of beating NZ.

If we get destroyed, it will go down as one of our worst world cups and we've had many bad ones. Putting up a fight and losing narrowly might save face a bit. Has to be said, Joe's reputation is taking a battering at the moment. Like Kidney before, people remember how it ended and it's not ending well for Joe. Still, time to turn things around.

whatcanidonow

lawred2 wrote: »

Hmmm - false narrative that really - winning the WC was never truly on anyone's mind. Getting to a semi final for the first time ever was. And as far as I can tell, the QF is pretty much all that I've seen anyone focused on.

No, last year people were talking about winning the world cup.

Shefwedfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

W - poor Italy side
L - thrashed by a record margin
W - Wales B team
W - good win
W - Scotland a poor side
L - to Japan
W - poorly enough to a team that is equivalent to an AIL side

Plenty of signs this year that we are faltering.

Reasons for a win. Wins in SA, Australia, NZ, Paris, the Grand Slam. Can we draw from that well? Yeah but it will take a monumental effort if its New Zealand.

Any qtr final will take monumental effort...


It's funny how Ireland beats a team and then straight away afterwards they are a "poor" side......


I didn't see anyone say Scotland are a poor team prior to the game....can't change history just to suit a pessimistic arguement....

At the start of the competition, before a call was kicked if we said after 3 games we would have 2 bonus point wins and a bonus point loss I don't think anyone would be massively complaining....


But on here post about WC over, blah blah blah.....seriously some people need to get a grip

partyguinness

Podge_irl wrote: »

If we lose the quarter-final I couldn't really care less whether its by 1 point or 20.

I think we still have a very reasonable chance of beating South Africa, though a much smaller one of beating NZ.

The thing is for Ireland to beat say, NZ in a WC QF (who have not lost a WC game since France turned them over in 2007 in Paris with a performance for the ages), everything and I mean absolutely everything has to go 100% right for Ireland and everything has to go 100% wrong for NZ.

Just ain't happening.

shootermacg

Niallof9 wrote: »

W - poor Italy side - Joey looked good.
L - thrashed by a record margin - only a friendly
W - Wales B team - nothing game
W - good win - last game for joe and best
W - Scotland a poor side - clinical and impressive
L - to Japan - heat, humidity, underestimating
W - poorly enough to a team that is equivalent to an AIL side - a nothing game

Plenty of signs this year that we are faltering.

Reasons for a win. Wins in SA, Australia, NZ, Paris, the Grand Slam. Can we draw from that well? Yeah but it will take a monumental effort if its New Zealand.

We get it, you're pissed off. But really what is your goal here?

- To change the coach? Joe's leaving.
- To highlight inadequacies in the Irish game plan? We have eyes.
- To incessantly moan about your team? Mission accomplished.

Really...what is your goal here? Try to limit moaning posts to one or two please, not only will it be better for all around you, but you might find it also helps you in the long run.

partyguinness

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Any qtr final will take monumental effort...


It's funny how Ireland beats a team and then straight away afterwards they are a "poor" side......


I didn't see anyone say Scotland are a poor team prior to the game....can't change history just to suit a pessimistic arguement....

At the start of the competition, before a call was kicked if we said after 3 games we would have 2 bonus point wins and a bonus point loss I don't think anyone would be massively complaining....


But on here post about WC over, blah blah blah.....seriously some people need to get a grip

Difference is that Scotland are not a poor side- they played very poorly.


Russia are a poor side who played their best.

joseywhales

I still have hope, it has to be SA in the 1/4 I think though. I think SA are a little overated. Simple enough game plan.

lawrencesummers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The point of the game was to get 5 points.....that is done


The point is to get out of the group and that is still on track


Losing player to injury is the issue. Nordi was playing well up till injury.


We need to decide what to do with Carbery. I can see why he is keeping him out but he is a waste of spot if never fit

Your head is deep in the sand if you think our biggest issue is losing a player to injury or anything to do with Carbery. It’s debatable if he should have been there in the first place but completely irrelevant because our biggest problem isnt the current third choice OH. It’s the first choice 10 who can’t play 50 minutes of a game two weeks before a QF, and hasn’t played 80 minutes in a very very very long time.

lawrencesummers

joseywhales wrote: »

I still have hope, it has to be SA in the 1/4 I think though. I think SA are a little overated. Simple enough game plan.

You can be sure of one thing with Joe, it will be a simple game plan, one out runners and box kicks all day long.

FrancieBrady

whatcanidonow wrote: »

No, last year people were talking about winning the world cup.

The 'possibility' of Winning the World Cup. If you bought into that, that is really your problem to deal with.

If, we had our team making no mistakes, playing at the full of their ability, it was still going to be a huge huge achievement to win this.

whatcanidonow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'possibility' of Winning the World Cup. If you bought into that, that is really your problem to deal with.

If, we had our team making no mistakes, playing at the full of their ability, it was still going to be a huge huge achievement to win this.

Like I said, avoiding a quarter final whipping is now the wish amongst many fans.

reg114

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Getting by SA or NZ (think about the pedigree at a WC of those teams) was always going to be a huge challenge. We have confidence that we can compete in a game like that and if we can fix things (that are in our gift to fix), I see no reason why we cannot compete again.

One game at a time, we have problems, today was much much better than Japan and a 35 - 0 Bonus point victory. Which is what was asked for.

Sorry but the group stages of a world cup is not the time you should be fixing problems. This implosion in form by Ireland in 2019 is utterly unacceptable. The truth is that if Schmidt wasn't stepping down after this tournament he would deserve to be sacked. This tournament is 4 years of preparation, thats 4 years of fixing things for us to peak just at the right time. Unfortunately we peaked a year too early, but that still doesnt totally explain the abysmal form in recent months. This tournament is over for Ireland as far as our ambitions of getting to a semi final are concerned. If you think otherwise you are ignoring logic, our form and the strength of the opposition.

lawrencesummers

reg114 wrote: »

Sorry but the group stages of a world cup is not the time you should be fixing problems. This implosion in form by Ireland in 2019 is utterly unacceptable. The truth is that if Schmidt wasn't stepping down after this tournament he would deserve to be sacked. This tournament is 4 years of preparation, thats 4 years of fixing things for us to peak just at the right time. Unfortunately we peaked a year too early, but that still doesnt totally explain the abysmal form in recent months. This tournament is over for Ireland as far as our ambitions of getting to a semi final are concerned. If you think otherwise you are ignoring logic, our form and the strength of the opposition.

You can be criticizing joe like that. People around here won’t settle for such reality.

Niallof9

The script is being rewritten.

Hopefully the players stick to their guns. Thats the best thing we can cling to. They haven't changed their thoughts. I'd say there is concern but they are amazing pro's.

How many times did we think we had a chance in a World Cup. 07 and 2011, maybe but we never had the results to back it up. This group does. 2015 the french match was a big shadow looming on our hopes.

So please don't say nobody thought we could win the World Cup. The players think they can win the World Cup. And i applaud them for that mentality. Thats the best thing at least. No more give it a lash hope for the best ****e. Serial winners.

lawrencesummers

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'possibility' of Winning the World Cup. If you bought into that, that is really your problem to deal with.

If, we had our team making no mistakes, playing at the full of their ability, it was still going to be a huge huge achievement to win this.

Yea, because being the best team in the world the day the competition starts means you should Harbour zero ambition of living up to your scientific, results and form based ranking.

partyguinness

Niallof9 wrote: »

How many times did we think we had a chance in a World Cup. 07 and 2011, maybe but we never had the results to back it up. This group does. 2015 the french match was a big shadow looming on our hopes.

To be fair I don't recall much hype before the 2011 WC.

2007 was different alright- there was massive hype. Players doing adverts and all sorts. 2007 WC was certainly a chastising experience. It was also on the back of the 6N being played at Croke Park.

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

If we get destroyed, it will go down as one of our worst world cups and we've had many bad ones. Putting up a fight and losing narrowly might save face a bit. Has to be said, Joe's reputation is taking a battering at the moment. Like Kidney before, people remember how it ended and it's not ending well for Joe. Still, time to turn things around.

By people with a memory of about 3 years maybe or people who are simply incapable of judging these things properly. 2007 remains in a league of its own with no other recent campaign deserving of mentioning in the same breath to be honest.

Ultimately its a world cup. If you go out in the quarters it really doesn't matter what else happened in it.

reg114

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You can be criticizing joe like that. People around here won’t settle for such reality.

Joe has been a revelation.. up to this year. Our form has collapsed. Joe was given the credit for the huge improvement in recent years but with that comes heightened expectation. If England, SA , France , Australia or New zealand endured such a poor 2019 and dreadful world cup so far would their coach survive despite his previous success ? I dont believe so. Right now this is embarrassing.

Vinnie222

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is it rewriting history?



Most expected Sout Africa to beat Japan


The point at the start of this tournament was to get to a semi and maybe further. When has that changed?

We are playing poorly against poor sides, that what have changed.

FrancieBrady

reg114 wrote: »

Sorry but the group stages of a world cup is not the time you should be fixing problems.

We don't have any choice do we?
If we do it, well done.
If we don't, then it is back to the drawing board and find out what went wrong and try again next time.
Will I shout any less loud for them? No.

This implosion in form by Ireland in 2019 is utterly unacceptable.

Your 'contract' must be different to mine. Because if the team lose, then there is nothing I can do but accept it. I committed to hoping they can do better next time out though.

The truth is that if Schmidt wasn't stepping down after this tournament he would deserve to be sacked. This tournament is 4 years of preparation, thats 4 years of fixing things for us to peak just at the right time. Unfortunately we peaked a year too early, but that still doesnt totally explain the abysmal form in recent months. This tournament is over for Ireland as far as our ambitions of getting to a semi final are concerned. If you think otherwise you are ignoring logic, our form and the strength of the opposition.

I have seen 2 entirely different teams come out within a week of one another many times in rugby. (not just with Ireland either)

Joe was never going to be sacked before a tournament starts or during it. Fantasy stuff to think that would happen, whether he deserves it or not. (which remains to be seen)

Podge_irl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Your head is deep in the sand if you think our biggest issue is losing a player to injury or anything to do with Carbery. It’s debatable if he should have been there in the first place but completely irrelevant because our biggest problem isnt the current third choice OH. It’s the first choice 10 who can’t play 50 minutes of a game two weeks before a QF, and hasn’t played 80 minutes in a very very very long time.

He played 80 minutes against England in this years 6N. He also played 77 against Italy and 72 against Wales.

Podge_irl

partyguinness wrote: »

To be fair I don't recall much hype before the 2011 WC.

2007 was different alright- there was massive hype. Players doing adverts and all sorts. 2007 WC was certainly a chastising experience. It was also on the back of the 6N being played at Croke Park.

There wasn't really any in 2011 beforehand but there was (understandably) a lot after the group stages. All went tits up for various reasons of course.