Ireland vs Russia, RWC pool A, Kobe, 11.15am Irish time

Podge_irl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Paddy Jackson???
That’s two years ago, and he wasn’t exactly pushing out Sexton for the 10’jersey anyway, he was a good OH, but not great.

No one would be pushing Sexton for the jersey but Jackson was better than any fly half not named Sexton who has worn the Irish jersey since ROG. He was the undisputed back up who was getting piles of gametime. Had he not had his unforeseen problems, depth at 10 would not be a problem.

Then we had to find a replacement backup 10 2 years before the world cup and the options at provincial level were not encouraging. Ultimately a player was moved from Leinster to Munster to get him more game time and all our resources were invested in them.

In the last year or so a third choice has been identified and what limited time could be given to them was.

There is simply no point arguing that the situation at 10 was handled incorrectly - it was handled as well as it could be.

aloooof

blinding wrote: »

A manager announcing he is going at a certain date in the future hardly if ever works to the good .

It seems to be working ok for Warren Gatland.

blinding wrote: »

Andy Farrell was strongly involved with England in a disastrous World Cup . Is he on the same track with Ireland this time ?

Has Ireland performance dis-improved since Farrell became involved ?

He's also been strongly involved with Ireland in some incredibly good performances, not to mention the Lions also. So no, Ireland's performance hasn't disimproved since Farrell became involved.

Podge_irl

blinding wrote: »

A manager announcing he is going at a certain date in the future hardly if ever works to the good .

There was literally no other choice so its a phenomenally pointless thing for people to keep bringing up. We couldn't go into the world cup not knowing who would be coaching the team in 1 month's time.

blinding wrote: »

Has Ireland performance dis-improved since Farrell became involved ?.

Unless you think Farrell joined at the start of this calendar year that seems like a slightly bizarre question

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

The actual man of the match...

O'Mahony offers something different to Ruddock alright. But we are desperately missing the strength in contact that Ruddock brought today.

I just said that the opposition was so poor that you can't take much from performances today. O'Mahony offers more overall.

troyzer

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Podge_irl wrote: »

The actual man of the match...

O'Mahony offers something different to Ruddock alright. But we are desperately missing the strength in contact that Ruddock brought today.

I just said that the opposition was so poor that you can't take much from performances today. O'Mahony offers more overall.

O'Mahony has been poor for a while now. What's the point of selecting a specialist poacher and lineout operator when our lineout is **** and he's not stealing ball? He's not a good carrier or tackler.

Ruddock should have the 6 shirt by now

aloooof

Podge_irl wrote: »

The actual man of the match...

O'Mahony offers something different to Ruddock alright. But we are desperately missing the strength in contact that Ruddock brought today.

POM obviously doesn't offer as much of a carrying threat as Ruddock but I'd worry we lose too much in the lineout (especially defensively) and with turnover threat without him.

My thinking is that Joe is going with Henderson and Ryan in the 2nd row to bring that carrying threat (along with Stander, Healy etc.) and still being able to get POM into the team.

whatcanidonow

troyzer wrote: »

O'Mahony has been poor for a while now. What's the point of selecting a specialist poacher and lineout operator when our lineout is **** and he's not stealing ball? He's not a good carrier or tackler.

Ruddock should have the 6 shirt by now

Ruddock is far behind O'Mahony in the lineout and at poaching. O'Mahony's numbers are good in this area. Ruddocks a better carrier but not enough to push him ahead of O'Mahony.

prawnsambo

troyzer wrote: »

O'Mahony has been poor for a while now. What's the point of selecting a specialist poacher and lineout operator when our lineout is **** and he's not stealing ball? He's not a good carrier or tackler.

Ruddock should have the 6 shirt by now

Or it could have been Stander if Conan hadn't got injured. Or both. We always think we've got huge depth in the back row until we get a few injuries and then we suddenly don't.

AbusesToilets

whatcanidonow wrote: »

I just said that the opposition was so poor that you can't take much from performances today. O'Mahony offers more overall.

He doesn't, simple as. He's excellent as a defensive jumper, arguably world class in that aspect. He's good at getting turn overs, abeit with a very illegal technique that seems to be getting picked up more often by refs

Ruddock is more physical. He makes more tackles, and more dominant ones at that. He carries more often and much more effectively. He has better attacking instincts, and better passing. He is an effective jumper in the lineout, and has played in the 2nd row.

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

I just said that the opposition was so poor that you can't take much from performances today. O'Mahony offers more overall.

They were playing the same opposition but fair enough.

So what more does he offer?

AbusesToilets

aloooof wrote: »

POM obviously doesn't offer as much of a carrying threat as Ruddock but I'd worry we lose too much in the lineout (especially defensively) and with turnover threat without him.

My thinking is that Joe is going with Henderson and Ryan in the 2nd row to bring that carrying threat (along with Stander, Healy etc.) and still being able to get POM into the team.

How many times a match do we even look to contest? Certainly not often inside the 22 I'd wager. Is the potential for a steal or disruption worth more than tackles and carries throughout the match? For me, they're not.

aloooof

prawnsambo wrote: »

Or it could have been Stander if Conan hadn't got injured. Or both. We always think we've got huge depth in the back row until we get a few injuries and then we suddenly don't.

I think Leavy is a bigger loss than some anticipated (myself included). He combines the hard carrying and physicality of Ruddock along and the breakdown threat of O'Mahony (if not the lineout work).

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Ruddock is far behind O'Mahony in the lineout and at poaching. O'Mahony's numbers are good in this area. Ruddocks a better carrier but not enough to push him ahead of O'Mahony.

O'Mahony has also been penalised 3 times and warned by the ref in one game, and penalised 3 times in another.

whatcanidonow

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He doesn't, simple as. He's excellent as a defensive jumper, arguably world class in that aspect. He's good at getting turn overs, abeit with a very illegal technique that seems to be getting picked up more often by refs

Ruddock is more physical. He makes more tackles, and more dominant ones at that. He carries more often and much more effectively. He has better attacking instincts, and better passing. He is an effective jumper in the lineout, and has played in the 2nd row.

Your opinion is that Ruddock is better, mine is that O'Mahony is better. Don't think we'll change each others views. Joe clearly thinks O'Mahony is the superior player.

c.p.w.g.w

Podge_irl wrote: »

O'Mahony has also been penalised 3 times and warned by the ref in one game, and penalised 3 times in another.

But weren't a few of those incorrect class that world rugby acknowledged

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Beating a welsh team that is disinterested in a warm up and a terrible Scottish team does not constitute 2018 form.

We haven’t played a game this year that suggests we are anywhere near the level of 2018.

What made the Welsh team disinterested?

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

They were playing the same opposition but fair enough.

So what more does he offer?

Read my post again.

Lineouts and steals, pretty obvious.

One More Toy

What a boring match, rather watch paint dry. We're not getting past any quarter final, number one in the world my ass

Podge_irl

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

But weren't a few of those incorrect class that world rugby acknowledged

Not sure, can't remember the details. One of them may have been an offside alright.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

What made the Welsh team disinterested?

The fact we beat them I think.

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

O'Mahony has also been penalised 3 times and warned by the ref in one game, and penalised 3 times in another.

And also stole ball, carried well, scored a try and worked well in the lineout.

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Read my post again.

Lineouts and steals, pretty obvious.

You mean read a different post you put up later on.

What are his lineout and poaching stats like in the world cup so far?

aloooof

Podge_irl wrote: »

O'Mahony has also been penalised 3 times and warned by the ref in one game, and penalised 3 times in another.

Which games? I've seen someone else claim he gave away 3 penalties against Japan, but that's inaccurate; he only gave away one. Today, I believe he gave away 2.

prawnsambo

Podge_irl wrote: »

Not sure, can't remember the details. One of them may have been an offside alright.

He was pinged for hands/forearms on the deck before going for the ball in one ruck that I remember.

Shefwedfan

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

But weren't a few of those incorrect class that world rugby acknowledged

No....Pom was given penalties away for trying to win ball in Rick while lying on ground

Niallof9

I'd go with Ruddock. O'Mahony has been poor recently. Living off reputation at this stage. If you were give World Class status for leadership and body language etc he'd be undisputed.

We'd lose something in the lineout but the team is carrying too many passengers lately.

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

You mean read a different post you put up later on.

What are his lineout and poaching stats like in the world cup so far?

No, read the post you misunderstood.

Look up espn stats, they're very good.

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

And also stole ball, carried well, scored a try and worked well in the lineout.

Carried well? He has made 23m, 18 of which came in the Russian game.

blinding

One More Toy wrote: »

What a boring match, rather watch paint dry. We're not getting past any quarter final, number one in the world my ass

This pick and go and one or two yard passes will kill Rugby if the authorities do not do something to spread the game about the pitch .

I love sport but there is only so much of this stuff i can watch !:eek::eek:

aloooof

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He doesn't, simple as. He's excellent as a defensive jumper, arguably world class in that aspect. He's good at getting turn overs, abeit with a very illegal technique that seems to be getting picked up more often by refs

Ruddock is more physical. He makes more tackles, and more dominant ones at that. He carries more often and much more effectively. He has better attacking instincts, and better passing. He is an effective jumper in the lineout, and has played in the 2nd row.

I think the issue is that the things that Ruddock would bring to the team could be said of a number of other players who are likely to start e.g. Stander, Henderson, James Ryan etc.

The things that POM brings to the team, we don't really have anyone else who performs them as well. The obvious ones are lineout and turnover threat.

(I'd also question whether Ruddocks passing is better tbh).

Podge_irl

aloooof wrote: »

Which games? I've seen someone else claim he gave away 3 penalties against Japan, but that's inaccurate; he only gave away one. Today, I believe he gave away 2.

He gave away 3, but two of them were advantages that were over-ridden for one reason or another. The Ref specifically mentioned Number 6 having committed 3 fouls and he needing to watch out - POM was promptly subbed.

He gave away 3 today, though at one of the penalties the ref highlighted both him and Kilcoyne so not sure where that has gone in the stats.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No....Pom was given penalties away for trying to win ball in Rick while lying on ground

He only gave away one penalty in the Japan game which was early on. Within 5 minutes of it, he actually won a jackal turnover and the ref specifically said to him "that's the picture I need to see".

There was another penalty later on that, because of hte camera angle, some people seem to be attributing to POM, but it was actually against Stander.

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

Carried well? He has made 23m, 18 of which came in the Russian game.

So you do have espn stats? Yes, for the way Joe likes to play, he carried well.

AbusesToilets

aloooof wrote: »

I think the issue is that the things that Ruddock would bring to the team could be said of a number of other players who are likely to start e.g. Stander, Henderson, James Ryan etc.

The things that POM brings to the team, we don't really have anyone else who performs them as well. The obvious ones are lineout and turnover threat.

(I'd also question whether Ruddocks passing is better tbh).

Can we afford to carry a player who does so little else on the pitch, I mean look at his stats in terms of tackles carries etc. They're atrocious, and frankly embarrassing for a supposed world class player.

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Paddy Jackson???
That’s two years ago, and he wasn’t exactly pushing out Sexton for the 10’jersey anyway, he was a good OH, but not great.

Jackson was after coming back from a hugely successful tour of SA.....first win over SA and really should of won the tour, Jackson had a great tour



Loads of people suggesting he would take Sexton spot in the AI's

whatcanidonow

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Can we afford to carry a player who does so little else on the pitch, I mean look at his stats in terms of tackles carries etc. They're atrocious, and frankly embarrassing for a supposed world class player.

7 passes, 18 metres from just 5 runs, 9 tackles. Not very embarrassing.

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

What made the Welsh team disinterested?

Nothing at stake.
Squad already announced.
Players not wanting to get injured.
Away from home.


You can’t seriously think Wales gave that game a lot
Of effort???

troyzer

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Podge_irl wrote: »

You mean read a different post you put up later on.

What are his lineout and poaching stats like in the world cup so far?

No, read the post you misunderstood.

Look up espn stats, they're very good.

He's had 3 turnovers in 160 minutes. Hardly mind blowing stats.

He's also given away loads of penalties.

AbusesToilets

whatcanidonow wrote: »

7 passes, 18 metres from just 5 runs, 9 tackles. Not very embarrassing.

His stats from the 6ns and warm ups were shocking

Podge_irl

whatcanidonow wrote: »

7 passes, 18 metres from just 5 runs, 9 tackles. Not very embarrassing.

I thought we couldn't read anything into a game against Russia?

yerrahbah

Cant remember the last time POM wasn't selected for Ireland in a crucial game, I'd imagine Heaslip was still playing

teednab-el

Raisins wrote: »

Maybe you can't see the big picture...what do you mean these performances "aren't acceptable"? They're doing their best. That's a bit arrogant coming from a country which has never progressed past a QF. At best they have the fourth best squad at the world cup - they can beat anyone on their day and lose to any of the tier 1 nations (or japan) on a bad day.

You are just a dreamer and not a realist unfortunately

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Loads of people suggesting he would take Sexton spot in the AI's

To be fair here, there were people suggesting Madigan might overtake Sexton during Leinster's run to the Amlin Challenge. While they were even more wrong than people suggesting Jackson would take Sexton's spot, they were all still incredibly wrong. Getting over-exuberant about the new kid is way too common.

Vinnie222

AbusesToilets wrote: »

His stats from the 6ns and warm ups were shocking

What matters is his stats now

whatcanidonow

troyzer wrote: »

He's had 3 turnovers in 160 minutes. Hardly mind blowing stats.

He's also given away loads of penalties.

I said espn stats are very good, great resource. No one's been that impressive for Ireland, we've had a poor world cup.

whatcanidonow

AbusesToilets wrote: »

His stats from the 6ns and warm ups were shocking

He's hitting form then?

aloooof

troyzer wrote: »

He's had 3 turnovers in 160 minutes. Hardly mind blowing stats.

I'll refer you back to this post and these stats. That turnover rate would put him well up near the top of the list, second only to Pocock.

https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/1160950075364958208

Honest question, do you think Ruddock would get the same turnover stats?

whatcanidonow

Podge_irl wrote: »

I thought we couldn't read anything into a game against Russia?

No, I already said that. Just saying those stats are not embarrassing.

troyzer

whatcanidonow wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

He's had 3 turnovers in 160 minutes. Hardly mind blowing stats.

He's also given away loads of penalties.

I said espn stats are very good, great resource. No one's been that impressive for Ireland, we've had a poor world cup.

He's the best poacher on a team which doesn't poach much. But his poaching is probably a liability at this point. He seems to be giving away more ruck penalties than the turnovers he gets.

Podge_irl

yerrahbah wrote: »

Cant remember the last time POM wasn't selected for Ireland in a crucial game, I'd imagine Heaslip was still playing

Pretty sure the last time was Heaslip's last game that he never made the pitch for.

He is selected consistently by people who know far more than me so fair enough. I just don't really get it. The odd performance such as NZ in Aviva seems like too high a price to pay for some pretty consistent anonymous performances to me.