Ireland vs Russia, RWC pool A, Kobe, 11.15am Irish time

AbusesToilets · 03-10-2019 6:38pm

Vinnie222 wrote: »

What matters is his stats now

I'm not expecting him to suddenly change the way he performs, and if all that matters are stats from now, then surely Ruddock's would be more significant anyway

prawnsambo · 03-10-2019 6:38pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

I said espn stats are very good, great resource. No one's been that impressive for Ireland, we've had a poor world cup.

Garry Ringrose. Played three matches so far and to a very high standard in all three.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 6:40pm

troyzer wrote: »

He's the best poacher on a team which doesn't poach much. But his poaching is probably a liability at this point. He seems to be giving away more ruck penalties than the turnovers he gets.

Read the stats posted above.

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 6:42pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

No, I already said that. Just saying those stats are not embarrassing.

And 7 carries for 5m, 13 tackles 2 missed over the other 2 games is what?

POM is clearly selected to play a certain role. He is great in the lineout and "niggly" around the breakdown. But he is getting picked out by the refs so far this tournament and doesn't seem to be really delivering that much.

yerrahbah · 03-10-2019 6:43pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Pretty sure the last time was Heaslip's last game that he never made the pitch for.

He is selected consistently by people who know far more than me so fair enough. I just don't really get it. The odd performance such as NZ in Aviva seems like too high a price to pay for some pretty consistent anonymous performances to me.

If the coaching staff thought he was putting in consistent anonymous performances then he wouldn't be selected

They're obviously content with his performances or else they think very little of the likes Conan and Ruddock

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 6:44pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Garry Ringrose. Played three matches so far and to a very high standard in all three.

He was average against Scotland actually and he's been missing a lot of tackles.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 6:48pm

Ruddock and POM are two completely different players.

I said before the competition started our back row with POM and VDF is not balanced as Stander is the only ball carrier and team line him up all day long. So we have no go-forward ball. If we have two ball carriers it keeps team guessing.

My preference was Conan at 8, Stander at 6 and then either VDF/POM at 7.

Going forward I would be looking at Stander at 8, Ruddock at 6 and again POM/VDF at 7.....

For SA if we start with both VDF and POM I think we will struggle to keep their back row in check

prawnsambo · 03-10-2019 6:52pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

He was average against Scotland actually and he's been missing a lot of tackles.

He always misses tackles. Because as a shooter in defence, making a tackle isn't always necessary. You're there to cut off the outside pass option first and foremost and that allows the inside defenders to mop up if necessary.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 6:52pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

And 7 carries for 5m, 13 tackles 2 missed over the other 2 games is what?

POM is clearly selected to play a certain role. He is great in the lineout and "niggly" around the breakdown. But he is getting picked out by the refs so far this tournament and doesn't seem to be really delivering that much.

Like I said, no one's had a good world cup. Ruddock's numbers weren't any better when he replaced O'Mahony v Japan.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 6:54pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

He always misses tackles. Because as a shooter in defence, making a tackle isn't always necessary. You're there to cut off the outside pass option first and foremost and that allows the inside defenders to mop up if necessary.

O'Mahony doesn't make as many tackles because he's always stuck in the rucks trying to steal ball.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:00pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

O'Mahony doesn't make as many tackles because he's always stuck in the rucks trying to steal ball.

Not really...

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:03pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not really...

Yes, he's trying to steal ball so is always making his way from ruck to ruck. Van Der Flier is not as effective on the ground so his tackle numbers are higher as he's not held up in as many rucks.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:05pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Yes, he's trying to steal ball so is always making his way from ruck to ruck. Van Der Flier is not as effective on the ground so his tackle numbers are higher as he's not held up in as many rucks.

No he doesn’t and if he did then he should be dropped

He should wait like Pocock etc and pick the ruck he can win the ball, running around like a headless chicken from one ruck to another he would be out on feet in first 40

prawnsambo · 03-10-2019 7:06pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

O'Mahony doesn't make as many tackles because he's always stuck in the rucks trying to steal ball.

What's O'Mahony got to do with it? We were talking about Ringrose.

Also not sure what you meant by him having a poor game against Scotland. He was absolutely essential in closng Hogg down on a number of occasions and also swept in behind the defence when Russell tried the dink over the top. Didn't have his usual highlight reel of clean breaks, but didn't get a lot of ball either.

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 7:06pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Like I said, no one's had a good world cup. Ruddock's numbers weren't any better when he replaced O'Mahony v Japan.

He was 4 carries for 6m against 4 carries for 3m and 6/0 tackles against 10/2. In 25 min against 55.

So yeah, they were better.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:07pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No he doesn’t and if he did then he should be dropped

He should wait like Pocock etc and pick the ruck he can win the ball, running around like a headless chicken from one ruck to another he would be out on feet in first 40

It's not just about winning turnovers, it's also about slowing opposition ball down. He's not in every ruck obviously but it explains the tackle numbers.

CMcsporty · 03-10-2019 7:07pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

O'Mahony doesn't make as many tackles because he's always stuck in the rucks trying to steal ball.

PO'M role is to stand a few yards behind the defensive line and poach on soak tackles.
hes usually has high "ruck involvements" because hes right there at the tackle every time.

troyzer · 03-10-2019 7:08pm

CMcsporty wrote: »

whatcanidonow wrote: »

O'Mahony doesn't make as many tackles because he's always stuck in the rucks trying to steal ball.

PO'M role is to stand a few yards behind the defensive line and poach on soak tackles.
hes usually has high "ruck involvements" because hes right there at the tackle every time.

Which is fine when you're successfully poaching.

He's not.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:09pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

What's O'Mahony got to do with it? We were talking about Ringrose.

Also not sure what you meant by him having a poor game against Scotland. He was absolutely essential in closng Hogg down on a number of occasions and also swept in behind the defence when Russell tried the dink over the top. Didn't have his usual highlight reel of clean breaks, but didn't get a lot of ball either.

I said he was average, he only made 9 metres off his carries which is quite poor. Did ok in other areas.

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 7:09pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Yes, he's trying to steal ball so is always making his way from ruck to ruck. Van Der Flier is not as effective on the ground so his tackle numbers are higher as he's not held up in as many rucks.

This would suggest otherwise:

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-ruck-scotland-world-cup-4824538-Sep2019/

Ireland ruck leaderboard vs. Scotland:

57 points Josh van der Flier

52 Rory Best

34 James Ryan

32 Jack Conan

27 CJ Stander

22 Tadhg Furlong

21 Tadhg Beirne

19 Iain Henderson

18 Dave Kilcoyne

18 Andrew Porter

17 Garry Ringrose

17 Cian Healy

14 Jordan Larmour

11 Jacob Stockdale

11 Chris Farrell

11 Peter O’Mahony

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:10pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

It's not just about winning turnovers, it's also about slowing opposition ball down. He's not in every ruck obviously but it explains the tackle numbers.

No it doesn’t....

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:11pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

He was 4 carries for 6m against 4 carries for 3m and 6/0 tackles against 10/2. In 25 min against 55.

So yeah, they were better.

Similar numbers and O'Mahony was shooting out for the missed tackles.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:12pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

This would suggest otherwise:

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-ruck-scotland-world-cup-4824538-Sep2019/

Ireland ruck leaderboard vs. Scotland:

57 points Josh van der Flier

52 Rory Best

34 James Ryan

32 Jack Conan

27 CJ Stander

22 Tadhg Furlong

21 Tadhg Beirne

19 Iain Henderson

18 Dave Kilcoyne

18 Andrew Porter

17 Garry Ringrose

17 Cian Healy

14 Jordan Larmour

11 Jacob Stockdale

11 Chris Farrell

11 Peter O’Mahony

To be fair POM was only on 20 mins in that match

But the poster explanations of what POM does or doesn’t do is incorrect

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:13pm

CMcsporty wrote: »

PO'M role is to stand a few yards behind the defensive line and poach on soak tackles.
hes usually has high "ruck involvements" because hes right there at the tackle every time.

Yes, it's clearly his role. Some people don't understand the intricacies and just depend on stats.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:14pm

troyzer wrote: »

Which is fine when you're successfully poaching.

He's not.

Someone posted the stats of this. He's high up the leaderboard.

prawnsambo · 03-10-2019 7:14pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

I said he was average, he only made 9 metres off his carries which is quite poor. Did ok in other areas.

Meh. You said it just there now

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:14pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Yes, it's clearly his role. Some people don't understand the intricacies and just depend on stats.

You haven’t explained any of these intricacies

You said he ran from one ruck to another to slow ball down.....Now your saying he doesn’t do that?

So explain the intricacies you are referring to?

You also complain about people using stats and then post saying his stats are good? Again which is it?

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 7:15pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

To be fair POM was only on 20 mins in that match

But the poster explanations of what POM does or doesn’t do is incorrect

Whoooooops. 27 actually but yeah I forgot that. Nonetheless, it doesn't exactly tie in with VDF making lots of tackles cause he is not in rucks.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:16pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Whoooooops. 27 actually but yeah I forgot that. Nonetheless, it doesn't exactly tie in with VDF making lots of tackles cause he is not in rucks.

I don’t think any player in the world would like to be compared to tackle and ruck count from VDF, he is a machine

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:16pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

This would suggest otherwise:

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-ruck-scotland-world-cup-4824538-Sep2019/

Ireland ruck leaderboard vs. Scotland:

57 points Josh van der Flier

52 Rory Best

34 James Ryan

32 Jack Conan

27 CJ Stander

22 Tadhg Furlong

21 Tadhg Beirne

19 Iain Henderson

18 Dave Kilcoyne

18 Andrew Porter

17 Garry Ringrose

17 Cian Healy

14 Jordan Larmour

11 Jacob Stockdale

11 Chris Farrell

11 Peter O’Mahony

You should read the article, that's a ruck leaderboard, different to what we were discussing.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:17pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No it doesn’t....

Yes it does.

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 7:18pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Yes, it's clearly his role. Some people don't understand the intricacies and just depend on stats.

whatcanidonow wrote: »

I said espn stats are very good, great resource. No one's been that impressive for Ireland, we've had a poor world cup.

whatcanidonow wrote: »

7 passes, 18 metres from just 5 runs, 9 tackles. Not very embarrassing.

whatcanidonow wrote: »

No, read the post you misunderstood.

Look up espn stats, they're very good.

Anyway...

I understand that POM has a role that doesn't reflect well in stats. But he also doesn't appear to be doing well in that area at the moment considering he is getting penalised a lot and we're not exactly racking in the turnovers.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:18pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Meh. You said it just there now

No I didn't. That makes you wrong twice in a row!

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:19pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You haven’t explained any of these intricacies

You said he ran from one ruck to another to slow ball down.....Now your saying he doesn’t do that?

So explain the intricacies you are referring to?

You also complain about people using stats and then post saying his stats are good? Again which is it?

Both. He's looking to steal and slow down ball. It's one of his main roles in the team. Some just look at stats and don't understand this.

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 7:20pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

You should read the article, that's a ruck leaderboard, different to what we were discussing.

You said he wasn't held up in rucks so could tackle more. He is, at the very least, hitting an absolute ****load of rucks on top of tackling.

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:21pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Anyway...

I understand that POM has a role that doesn't reflect well in stats. But he also doesn't appear to be doing well in that area at the moment considering he is getting penalised a lot and we're not exactly racking in the turnovers.

Harshly penalised you mean? He's a key part to the team. That's why he gets selected a lot and Rudock doesn't.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:22pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Both. He's looking to steal and slow down ball. It's one of his main roles in the team. Some just look at stats and don't understand this.

Your making absolutely zero sense

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:23pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

You said he wasn't held up in rucks so could tackle more. He is, at the very least, hitting an absolute ****load of rucks on top of tackling.

Again, it's a different role. The stats don't tell you everything.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:24pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

Harshly penalised you mean? He's a key part to the team. That's why he gets selected a lot and Rudock doesn't.

Not harsh, watch the Japan game and they where stupid penalties you could see a mile off

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:26pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not harsh, watch the Japan game and they where stupid penalties you could see a mile off

He lives on the edge. You need someone like that. Again, it's why he's selected. More often than not his involvement is hugely beneficial.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:32pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

He lives on the edge. You need someone like that. Again, it's why he's selected. More often than not his involvement is hugely beneficial.

So far you have said he
Doesn’t tackle
Doesn’t hit that many rucks
Lives on the edge

Jesus if you are a fan of POM I would hate to see what you would say if you hate him.....

He had a decent game today, first in a long time for ireland....

FrancieBrady · 03-10-2019 7:34pm

Was there any news on Jordi Murphy since the end of the game?

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:34pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So far you have said he
Doesn’t tackle
Doesn’t hit that many rucks
Lives on the edge

Jesus if you are a fan of POM I would hate to see what you would say if you hate him.....

He had a decent game today, first in a long time for ireland....

I didn't say that at all. You just made it up.

Podge_irl · 03-10-2019 7:40pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Was there any news on Jordi Murphy since the end of the game?

Nah, he's going for a scan for a possibly "popped rib". Doesn't sound great tbh but imagine we'll know more tomorrow.

Shefwedfan · 03-10-2019 7:41pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

I didn't say that at all. You just made it up.

Read your posts....

whatcanidonow · 03-10-2019 7:43pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Read your posts....

That's what I was just going to tell you.

prawnsambo · 03-10-2019 8:18pm

whatcanidonow wrote: »

No I didn't. That makes you wrong twice in a row!

I put it in bold and all.

Cypher_sounds · 03-10-2019 8:20pm

This was Ireland’s 38th Rugby World Cup game and the first time they have prevented the opposition from scoring; it was the first time Russia have failed to score a point in a RWC match.

Paul Smeenus · 03-10-2019 8:24pm

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

This was Ireland’s 38th Rugby World Cup game and the first time they have prevented the opposition from scoring; it was the first time Russia have failed to score a point in a RWC match.

Defence wins games...

prawnsambo · 03-10-2019 8:31pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Defence wins games...

Is it not attack wins game, defence wins tournaments?

Ireland vs Russia, RWC pool A, Kobe, 11.15am Irish time

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