Government to introduce Carbon Tax on new cars and used car imports

Beta Ray Bill

So we already have VRT, looks like we're getting another tax.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/budget-2020-charge-on-new-and-imported-petrol-and-diesel-cars-to-be-introduced-1.4038187

The new tax is going to be called "environmental health surcharge"

It going to replace the 1 per cent VRT surcharge on diesel vehicles and would be paid on top of VRT.

Basically a new Diesel car is going to cost between an extra €200 and €450
and a new Petrol car is going to cost between an extra €100 and €250
Electric cars are exempt.

For 2nd had imports the price is going to be substantially higher.

This bugs me.
It's a nothing change.

Basically a paper cut, which is irritating but not going to make people change.
And the revenue generated is going to end up in the HSE/Social Welfare Blackhole

Just another little tax on people...

If the government was SERIOUS about climate change they introduce better policies.
Where are all the wind farms?
Where are all the Solar farms?
Where are all these electric cars we've head so much about?

The incentives to go green are CRAP!
You install solar panels on your roof, during the day you're at work so you're contributing to the grid because you aren't using power at home. The ESB basically give you nothing for that.
And when you're at home it's dark so you're paying the Electricity supplier for your power.
Apart from hot water, where is the incentive there?

Electric Cars are still WAY to expensive, I use public transport, and only use my car on the weekend.
I'd like an electric car, but just cannot afford one/justify one for the amount of miles I do.
Maybe if they were being manufactured here they'd be cheaper (maybe). Again, where is the incentive from the government to make these cars cheaper instead of making petrol/diesel powered cars more expensive?

tjhook

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

For 2nd had imports the price is going to be substantially higher.

This bit surprises me. Would it even be legal? I thought the free movement of goods in Europe meant additional taxes can't be applied to imported goods coming from the EU. (I know, Brexit - but that's not done yet).


Isn't that why VRT was brought in to begin with? To prevent people from importing cars cheaper from other European countries, avoiding the higher Irish taxes on them?


It would be strange if Ireland can arbitrarily place higher taxes on an imported good, that don't apply to the same good being sold in used-car showrooms here.

is_that_so

tjhook wrote: »

This bit surprises me. Would it even be legal? I thought the free movement of goods in Europe meant additional taxes can't be applied to imported goods coming from the EU. (I know, Brexit - but that's not done yet).


Isn't that why VRT was brought in to begin with? To prevent people from importing cars cheaper from other European countries, avoiding the higher Irish taxes on them?


It would be strange if Ireland can arbitrarily place higher taxes on an imported good, that don't apply to the same good being sold in used-car showrooms here.

It's not the product that's being taxed, it's what it uses. Carbon taxes get a pass and higher taxes are almost welcome.

Beta Ray Bill

tjhook wrote: »

This bit surprises me. Would it even be legal? I thought the free movement of goods in Europe meant additional taxes can't be applied to imported goods coming from the EU. (I know, Brexit - but that's not done yet).

This is basically what VRT already is.
VRT is not illegal, but it is not in the "Spirit" of the EU

tjhook wrote: »

Isn't that why VRT was brought in to begin with? To prevent people from importing cars cheaper from other European countries, avoiding the higher Irish taxes on them?

VRT was brought in during the 80's I believe when everyone was broke, and each family had one car (an oul banger) on average.
It didn't generate much revenue then.
Roll forward a few years to the 90's boom and all of a sudden new car sales are WAY up, VRT is generating huge revenue, it's a rip off but who cares!!!?? It's the 90's boom and we're all rich.
So VRT goes from being something like a little stop gap/surcharge tax to being a major revenue generator, which our Tax System is now dependent on. (We'll never be able to get rid of it)

It's a classic example to everyone on poor planning/thinking ahead and making a stupid decision which ends up shackling future generations forever. (And I'm not just talking about Tax here!)

Del2005

tjhook wrote: »

This bit surprises me. Would it even be legal? I thought the free movement of goods in Europe meant additional taxes can't be applied to imported goods coming from the EU. (I know, Brexit - but that's not done yet).


Isn't that why VRT was brought in to begin with? To prevent people from importing cars cheaper from other European countries, avoiding the higher Irish taxes on them?


It would be strange if Ireland can arbitrarily place higher taxes on an imported good, that don't apply to the same good being sold in used-car showrooms here.

It's being done on emissions, mainly NOx, and older cars emit more NOx so that's how the charge will be more. You'll still save a load of money even with the higher charges.

VRT is a registration fee and numerous EU countries have similar, in the UK its £50 and in the Netherlands its more than ours.

tjhook

Del2005 wrote: »

It's being done on emissions, mainly NOx, and older cars emit more NOx so that's how the charge will be more. You'll still save a load of money even with the higher charges.

I may have read it wrong then - I saw this in the article:

"The charge would likely be significantly higher for used imports. "


And I assumed it means the taxes would be higher on a used car being imported than if that same car was on sale in an Irish showroom. Should it then say something like "The charge would likely be significantly higher for older, polluting cars"?

blanch152

tjhook wrote: »

I may have read it wrong then - I saw this in the article:

"The charge would likely be significantly higher for used imports. "


And I assumed it means the taxes would be higher on a used car being imported than if that same car was on sale in an Irish showroom. Should it then say something like "The charge would likely be significantly higher for older, polluting cars"?

If the environmental charge is being paid at point of import and is based on NOx emissions, then yes, it is highly likely that used imports will pay a higher charge than new imports.

Second-hand sales within the country would be exempt because it is only at point of first importation that the tax arises.

Clever, but probably legal.

Del2005

tjhook wrote: »

I may have read it wrong then - I saw this in the article:

"The charge would likely be significantly higher for used imports. "


And I assumed it means the taxes would be higher on a used car being imported than if that same car was on sale in an Irish showroom. Should it then say something like "The charge would likely be significantly higher for older, polluting cars"?

That click bait title is on purpose. It's a tax on NOx emissions so if you register an older vehicle which has high NOx emissions, and these are the official ones nobody can actually get in real life, then it will cost more than a new car with lower emissions. But you'll still save money by buying a cheaper car with Sterling likely to keep falling. So instead of saving say €5k if you import you'll now only save €4k.

marvin80

There's going to be a carbon tax on petrol and diesel as well.

"The carbon tax, which is currently set at €20 per tonne, has not increased since 2014.

The Government now intends to raise it by between €6 and €7 in the first of what will become annual increases for the next decade.

It will add around two cents to the price of a litre of petrol and diesel, which currently stands at an average of 144.7 cents and 134.4 cents respectively.

Industry experts predict that a motorist will end up paying an extra €1.20 per fill of their tank. A typical fill of kerosene home heating oil - 900 litres - could potentially rise by €15-€16 in such a scenario. A 12.5kg bale of briquettes may increase by around 15 cents, and a 40kg bag of coal could rise by in excess of 70 cents."

https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/drivers-face-instant-petrol-price-hike-from-budget-day-carbon-tax-38561734.html

jmayo

Del2005 wrote: »

...
VRT is a registration fee and numerous EU countries have similar, in the UK its £50 and in the Netherlands its more than ours.

It may be a registration fee in the likes of UK or Netherlands, but in Ireland and Finland it is basically just another tax or actually a tarrif on imports.

It was a way of continuing to gain revenue despite the abolition of tarrifs on imports.

VRT in Finland was once around 29/30% of the value of the car, but I think was dropped to around max 25%.

So please don't give us the shyte that it is the same as some country that has a very low flat rate.

73bc61lyohr0mu

Carbon tax on fuel is a scam. They tax the ****e out of us as they know we have no choice but to pay. Tax tax tax. That's all this country is..

Harry Palmr

Polluter pays principle. Which is obviously correct and logical to impose on imports - plenty of which will be motorway shagged and out of warranty.

s7ryf3925pivug

They're awful hypocrites.

This year....

They have cancelled the plan to ban smoky coal nationwide, which would have been such an easy and beneficial change.

They've renewed a licence to allow the controversial Irish Cement plant to be exempt from EU limits on NO2 emissions. It's in the middle of residential areas.

They are allowing imports of Brazilian beef. There's no point regulating an industry here only to import the same products being farmed where rainforests used to be.

Continued to ignore EU directives to stop destroying bogs, in order to harvest smoky fossil fuels.

...They aren't acting like they're addressing an emergency. They're using it to justify their actions when it suits and ignoring it otherwise. You can fly to London for a fiver, buy cheap imported beef and cheap smoky coal and turf. Fact is they are on the side of business interests and not interested in the common good, even when they agree there is an existential threat.