This Kitesurfer?

ted1

GarIT wrote: »

Should be stripped of them and banned from future competitions. That argument is like saying McGregor can punch whoever he likes because he is a professional.

Daft. This place is hilarious, so many uneducated comments.
The local conditions were perfect for kitesurfing. The accident happened because a trick went badly , nothing to do with weather warnings.

ted1

railer201 wrote: »

A wind warning was issued for the whole country including lakes. How professional is to ignore such advice ?

A yellow warning , do you know what that is ?
The local conditions were perfect.

Brendan Bendar

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Sure if that's the case then no one would ever do anything...


Even on the R117 page linked earlier on, the vast majority of people were saying this incident could've happened anywhere and at anytime, it was just unfotunate. Of course, there were a few detractors, and some of the great unwashed and ill informed were reading from your hymnsheet

Sorry now Bren, but i think you are talking total twaddle.

You are still missing the point.

Of course the incident could have happened anywhere any time.

It could have happened any day where there were no impending extreme weather forecasts.

Yesterday was not one of those days, there were warnings of impending extreme weather and that one should take certain precautions.

That doesn’t happen every day, it happens rarely.

Folk should take heed of these warnings and not put rescue services and ground personnel at risk by ignoring them and carrying on as if yesterday was no different than other day.

Forecasts are in this geographical area at best are good guesses, however to disregard the advice of the emergency services, the very people who will have to risk their lives to save you, to me is disrespecting them, and no amount of pseudo Facebook camaraderie will co er up that.

Bugger all use joshing with the emergency services personally if you ignore their basic advice.

Disrespect in my book.

railer201

ted1 wrote: »

A yellow warning , do you know what that is ?
The local conditions were perfect.

I've quoted it up above - winds up to 100km/hr - the same old story ' It was perfect when I went out ' - well things changed and no one can say they weren't adequately warned about Lorenzo.

DaraDali

Stovepipe wrote: »

Examples of the death or injury of rescue personnel are usually posted on the Roll of Honour at every lifeboat station or coastguard station, SAR heli base and Naval base and rescue divers base.

So you dont have any examples of rescue staff being injured helping Kitesurfers?

You could have just said. :cool:

Raconteuse

I just don't get what the naysayers are getting so defensive about.

There were severe weather conditions forecasted. Now, we know forecast doesn't mean guarantee, but it does mean high likelihood. And is usually correct.

Absolutely nobody said that people shouldn't merely go outside in a little bit of wind and rain. Weather warnings are not issued if a little bit of wind and rain is forecasted.

Weather warnings in and of themselves imply "Don't engage in unnecessary outdoor activities, particularly high risk ones."

But, this guy did, despite the warnings. And even though the conditions didn't turn out so severe, well, that's moot seeing as he still needed help from the emergency services didn't he?!

Brendan Bendar

DaraDali wrote: »

So you dont have any examples of rescue staff being injured helping Kitesurfers?

You could have just said. :cool:

What has that to do with this thread?

Scarse and valuable resources were used up to attend an incident which if emergency services advice were followed, shouldn’t have happened.

This is disrespecting these people’s advice and expertise, as I see it.

knucklehead6

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You are still missing the point.

Of course the incident could have happened anywhere any time.

It could have happened any day where there were no impending extreme weather forecasts.

Yesterday was not one of those days, there were warnings of impending extreme weather and that one should take certain precautions.

That doesn’t happen every day, it happens rarely.

Folk should take heed of these warnings and not put rescue services and ground personnel at risk by ignoring them and carrying on as if yesterday was no different than other day.

Forecasts are in this geographical area at best are good guesses, however to disregard the advice of the emergency services, the very people who will have to risk their lives to save you, to me is disrespecting them, and no amount of pseudo Facebook camaraderie will co er up that.

Bugger all use joshing with the emergency services personally if you ignore their basic advice.

Disrespect in my book.

Your very first post in this thread invoked lifeboats, yet there were no lifeboats involved.

The helicopter was sitting in Waterford, less than 50km away. Cruising speed of an S-92 is about 280kph, about 20 minutes flying time. The pictures in the RTE link show an ambulance at the scene. The helicopter was called in for the lad and more than likely it was not out of necessity, but out of patient comfort and care. He'd be more comfortable in a helicopter zipping along rather than being driven in an ambulance back over towards the road.

You can be damn sure that if there was a 'proper' emergency the coast guard lads who called in R117 would have waved him off to take care of that.

Brendan Bendar

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Your very first post in this thread invoked lifeboats, yet there were no lifeboats involved.

The helicopter was sitting in Waterford, less than 50km away. Cruising speed of an S-92 is about 280kph, about 20 minutes flying time. The pictures in the RTE link show an ambulance at the scene. The helicopter was called in for the lad and more than likely it was not out of necessity, but out of patient comfort and care. He'd be more comfortable in a helicopter zipping along rather than being driven in an ambulance back over towards the road.

You can be damn sure that if there was a 'proper' emergency the coast guard lads who called in R117 would have waved him off to take care of that.

The reports mention that the Coastguard were involved and I would suggest there was some lifeboat contact initially, it was they who called in the heli.

With respect you seem to imply that a helicopter is sitting in Base just waiting to dig out a bunch of lads who ignore emergency service warnings.

Who pays for this.?

Is it fine to rock out given the warnings and use taxpayers money if things go wrong, as they did yesterday, despite all the warnings?

You are painting yourself into a corner, dude, much better to come out with your hands up and say soz man, made a bad decision there, we all do it.

You would gain much more respect for that rather than trying to weasel out of what is disrespect for emergency service advice.

Mickeroo

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The reports mention that the Coastguard were involved and I would suggest there was some lifeboat contact initially, it was they who called in the heli.

Lifeboat contact is pretty unlikely, it happened on a lake (technically a lagoon but it's not linked to the sea).

knucklehead6

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The reports mention that the Coastguard were involved and I would suggest there was some lifeboat contact initially, it was they who called in the heli.

With respect you seem to imply that a helicopter is sitting in Base just waiting to dig out a bunch of lads who ignore emergency service warnings.

Who pays for this.?

Is it fine to rock out given the warnings and use taxpayers money if things go wrong, as they did yesterday, despite all the warnings?

You are painting yourself into a corner, dude, much better to come out with your hands up and say soz man, made a bad decision there, we all do it.

You would gain much more respect for that rather than trying to weasel out of what is disrespect for emergency service advice.

The Ambulance crew were there first, they called the coast guard. Now considering the Ambulance crew were already there, it's safe to assume the coast guard lads knew that they didn't need to task one of the RNLI Lifeboats. Considering they're two separate organisations and all that... Anyway, why would a sea going lifeboat be tasked to a lake??



As for the helicopter sitting at base, where else do you think it'd be... Flying a patrol?? :pac:

No tax payers money was used yesterday, R117 costs the same amount of money whether its flying or not.

jmayo

ted1 wrote: »

I stopped reading there, no he or no one would be carrying a flare when kiting or sailing on a small lake.
As you generally don't kite in offshore winds, you don't need flare while in the sea either..

He also wasn't the only one kiting there yesterday. so he had plenty of support from fellow kiters.

Ahh FFS we all know that a kitesurfer, windsurfer, surfer etc aren;t going to have a flare stuffed down their wet suit or tied to their back.

That was my fecking point about knowing if someone is really in trouble or not when they go out when there are warnings not to.

ted1 wrote: »

Seafarer? He was in a lake, he wasn’t at Sean. And he is actually a professional.

But, but I thought he was a national and international title holder.

How could such benign conditions, in a lake not even the sea, result in such serious injury to such a seasoned pro. :rolleyes:

knucklehead6 wrote: »

...
The helicopter was sitting in Waterford, less than 50km away. Cruising speed of an S-92 is about 280kph, about 20 minutes flying time. The pictures in the RTE link show an ambulance at the scene. The helicopter was called in for the lad and more than likely it was not out of necessity, but out of patient comfort and care. He'd be more comfortable in a helicopter zipping along rather than being driven in an ambulance back over towards the road.

You can be damn sure that if there was a 'proper' emergency the coast guard lads who called in R117 would have waved him off to take care of that.

Care to tell us how much it costs to start up an S-92, taxi it out, fly it for 20 minutes to a casualty, land/hover overhead, take the casualty to nearest hospital or dropoff point and fly back to base ?
The whole thing took longer than 20 mins and used more fuel than 20 mins straight flying would use.

Slap him with a bill and maybe next time the expert professionals with the national titles won't go out in conditions, that it seems after all they aren't capable of handling, resulting in the waste of resources and time of the emergency services.

And slap a massive bill on that English fooker that wasted people's time and resources down in Kerry.

Brendan Bendar

knucklehead6 wrote: »

The Ambulance crew were there first, they called the coast guard. Now considering the Ambulance crew were already there, it's safe to assume the coast guard lads knew that they didn't need to task one of the RNLI Lifeboats. Considering they're two separate organisations and all that... Anyway, why would a sea going lifeboat be tasked to a lake??



As for the helicopter sitting at base, where else do you think it'd be... Flying a patrol?? :pac:

No tax payers money was used yesterday, R117 costs the same amount of money whether its flying or not.

Where else would the helicopter be, maybe standing by to help out someone who didn’t ignore the emergency services advice, bro.


Lookit, all this reacts very badly on a group who should take more responsibility, you are disrespecting the emergency services if you ignore their genuine advice and think you above their experience and skills.

It smacks of arrogance to suggest that a helicopter paid for by the taxpayer should be used by folk who ignore advice of the emergency services and possibly deprive genuine folk in trouble of immediate help.

This doesn’t reflect well on a bunch of folk, smacks of arrogance.

Would be better if a less confrontational and defensive attitude was used.

ted1

jmayo wrote: »

But, but I thought he was a national and international title holder.

You can be both. What makes you think you can’t?he also runs a popular kite school

jmayo

ted1 wrote: »

You can be both. What makes you think you can’t?he also runs a popular kite school

Well it seems whatever titles he holds he wasn't good enough to handle the conditions on a lake yesterday.

Or maybe he is just arrogant and thought he was more capable than he actually is.

I know aviation is another area where you have a fair share of arrogance.
And sometimes people get away with it, but other times these people bite off more than they can chew and they land or more precisely crash in the sh*t.

Maybe he, some of his buddies and a few other know it alls might learn a valuable lesson from this.

Bruthal

Raconteuse wrote: »

There were weather warnings, so no, you don't get to tell people they're being hysterical. Turned out not to be that severe but the forecast was for possible severity.

And... he DID need rescuing.

Did he need rescuing due to severe weather, or predicted severe weather?

Brendan Bendar

Nothing personal against the lad, but surely given the advice of the emergency services, one would think one shouldn’t ignore the advice, if only for example purposes.

I would certainly question the ‘ ethics’ of a school which would have the ‘trainers’ ignore safety warnings and not instill,it would appear, the importance of safety and following the rules,both by teaching and by example.


Not a good scenario here.

ted1

jmayo wrote: »

Well it seems whatever titles he holds he wasn't good enough to handle the conditions on a lake yesterday.

Or maybe he is just arrogant and thought he was more capable than he actually is.

You really have no idea. If you don’t push yourself, you’ll never progress.

The conditions weren’t the issue.

ted1

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nothing personal against the lad, but surely given the advice of the emergency services, one would think one shouldn’t ignore the advice, if only for example purposes.

I would certainly question the ‘ ethics’ of a school which would have the ‘trainers’ ignore safety warnings and not instill,it would appear, the importance of safety and following the rules,both by teaching and by example.


Not a good scenario here.

Such an ignorant comment.


And there was no warning
A status yellow is actual a weather alert , warnings start at orange.
https://www.met.ie/met-eireann-warning-system-explained

Bruthal

jmayo wrote: »

Well it seems whatever titles he holds he wasn't good enough to handle the conditions on a lake yesterday.

Why, what exactly happened? Describe in detail.

I mean, I flipped over a catamaran on a lake in 15 knots in the summer, yet no trouble in over 20 knots last time out. That cant be possible with your logic can it?

jmayo

ted1 wrote: »

You really have no idea. If you don’t push yourself, you’ll never progress.

The conditions weren’t the issue.

So was/were the issues ?

Sure why not really push yourself and fook off to the Caribbean and go out in a hurricane. :rolleyes:

Or be a little bit more sane and head off to Los Canos de Meca or Tarifa in Spain.

ted1 wrote: »

Such an ignorant comment.

There is such a thing as bad advertising and bad optics.
A lot of parents for something like watersports will want their kids somewhere that is well run and safe.

How does it make his surfschool look when he is plastered on national media having to be rescued because he was out around the time of a major storm warning.

Oh yeah the lads in the know will be going how great he is challenging himself and how he was just unlucky.

Whereas prospective customers could be just going I don't want to go to an arrogant reckless guy that got found out.

Bruthal

Raconteuse wrote: »

And even though the conditions didn't turn out so severe, well, that's moot seeing as he still needed help from the emergency services didn't he?!

So if he was in a certain wind condition, and has a mishap, he had that mishap because the weather forecast said the wind would be stronger?

Bruthal

jmayo wrote: »

So was/were the issues ?

Sure why not really push yourself and fook off to the Caribbean and go out in a hurricane. :rolleyes:

Or be a little bit more sane and head off to Los Canos de Meca or Tarifa in Spain.



There is such a thing as bad advertising and bad optics.
A lot of parents for something like watersports will want their kids somewhere that is well run and safe.

How does it make his surfschool look when he is plastered on national media having to be rescued because he was out around the time of a major storm warning.

Oh yeah the lads in the know will be going how great he is challenging himself and how he was just unlucky.

Whereas prospective customers could be just going I don't want to go to an arrogant reckless guy that got found out.

Well tell us exactly what happened him, to clear it up.

ted1

jmayo wrote: »

So was/were the issues ?

Sure why not really push yourself and fook off to the Caribbean and go out in a hurricane. :rolleyes:

Or be a little bit more sane and head off to Los Canos de Meca or Tarifa in Spain.



There is such a thing as bad advertising and bad optics.
A lot of parents for something like watersports will want their kids somewhere that is well run and safe.

How does it make his surfschool look when he is plastered on national media having to be rescued because he was out around the time of a major storm warning.

Oh yeah the lads in the know will be going how great he is challenging himself and how he was just unlucky.

Whereas prospective customers could be just going I don't want to go to an arrogant reckless guy that got found out.

You are just displaying more ignorance.

knucklehead6

Brendan, read the last sentence in my recent post again

The helicopter costs the same amount of money to the taxpayer sitting in its hanger as it does flying.

It is NOT operated by a state run service. It is operated by a private contractor.

Bruthal

ted1 wrote: »

You are just displaying more ignorance.

When you see "Well it seems whatever titles he holds he wasn't good enough to handle the conditions on a lake yesterday", you know its ignorance.

Clueless, or pretend clueless, as its hard to imagine someone who thinks highly skilled means immune from accidents forever.

AudreyHepburn

If Met Eireann/the Gardai etc are giving weather warnings and people deliberately and in full knowledge of the risks disobey them then of course they should be made to carry costs.

Our emergency services are there to help those genuinely in need not risk their lives rescuing those who can’t or won’t listen to warnings or think it’s ok to ignore them and put others at risks.

ted1

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If Met Eireann/the Gardai etc are giving weather warnings and people deliberately and in full knowledge of the risks disobey them then of course they should be made to carry costs.

Our emergency services are there to help those genuinely in need not risk their lives rescuing those who can’t or won’t listen to warnings or think it’s ok to ignore them and put others at risks.

Met Éireann have a weather alert not a warning

So people who crash cars while in exceeding the limit, or with alcohol should be left at the side of a road ?

AulWan

ted1 wrote: »

So people who crash cars while in exceeding the limit, or with alcohol should be left at the side of a road ?

Oh would you ever grow up.

knucklehead6

AulWan wrote: »

Oh would you ever grow up.

For what? Pointing out the fallacy of a stupid straw man argument?

AulWan

For continuing to defend idiots who take unnecessary risks and waste the emergency services time during known times of unpredictable weather.

I couldn't be arsed reading any more of this rubbish.

Bruthal

AulWan wrote: »

For continuing to defend idiots who take unnecessary risks and waste the emergency services time during known times of unpredictable weather.

I couldn't be arsed reading any more of this rubbish.

Just about everything involves risk. The day you never take any, is the day you separate yourself from the "idiots" that do.

Brendan Bendar

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Brendan, read the last sentence in my recent post again

The helicopter costs the same amount of money to the taxpayer sitting in its hanger as it does flying.

It is NOT operated by a state run service. It is operated by a private contractor.

Again you try to shift the scenario.

This gentleman went against all the advice of the emergency services.

He got into trouble and a helicopter and crew with ground backup had to be activated to rescue him.

I am pleased that the lad is all right but..... this guy used up valuable time and resources against emergency services advice, I’ll repeat that,against emergency services advice,possibly impacting on a real emergency in another area.

Are you disputing those facts, my friend.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

If I’d been surfing all my life and a storm like that one brought in the best waves there’s no way I’d been letting a “red flag” or some life guards telling me I can’t surf them.

Obviously, it’s my call and if anything happens it’s on me. Wouldn’t be looking for any RNLI or Coast Guard rescue.

Not sure who should foot the bill really, until the state puts in provisions to deal, more strictly, with reckless behaviour and alcohol related injuries then we’ll be paying, B.

But they will rescue you if they spot you. Or try to anyway. They’re hardly going to go away if you say “No thanks!”.

ted1

AulWan wrote: »

Oh would you ever grow up.

It’s the exact same as you suggested.

ted1

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Again you try to shift the scenario.

This gentleman went against all the advice of the emergency services.

He got into trouble and a helicopter and crew with ground backup had to be activated to rescue him.

I am pleased that the lad is all right but..... this guy used up valuable time and resources against emergency services advice, I’ll repeat that,against emergency services advice,possibly impacting on a real emergency in another area.

Are you disputing those facts, my friend.

The helicopter was back up to the ground crew. It wasn’t used to rescue him. It was used to transport.

knucklehead6

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Again you try to shift the scenario.

This gentleman went against all the advice of the emergency services.

He got into trouble and a helicopter and crew with ground backup had to be activated to rescue him.

I am pleased that the lad is all right but..... this guy used up valuable time and resources against emergency services advice, I’ll repeat that,against emergency services advice,possibly impacting on a real emergency in another area.

Are you disputing those facts, my friend.

Your VERY FIRST POST in this thread was on inquiring whether this chap (and any others) should bear the cost.

I’ve pointed out there was no cost incurred to the state of the helicopter. You’re the one trying to shift the scenario. My friend.

Brendan Bendar

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Your VERY FIRST POST in this thread was on inquiring whether this chap (and any others) should bear the cost.

I’ve pointed out there was no cost incurred to the state of the helicopter. You’re the one trying to shift the scenario. My friend.

So it’s a free service then is it.

The Canadian company who run it do it for nothing?

There is no cost in paying the aircrew, maintenance, hangarage, training, fuel, and stuff.

Listen apologies, I must have gotten that wrong.

However back to the main issue.

Surely it’s disrespecting the emergency services, those brave men and women tasked to try and protect us in difficult situations, to ignore their advice and carry on regardless.

Then expect them to risk their lives to dig you out of a hole you dug yourself by ignoring their advice.

Surely you can’t justify that.

GarIT

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Brendan, read the last sentence in my recent post again

The helicopter costs the same amount of money to the taxpayer sitting in its hanger as it does flying.

It is NOT operated by a state run service. It is operated by a private contractor.

The more it's used this year the higher the quote is next year then. Unless the private contractor is a charity.

I'm all for people engaging in all sorts of risky sports and using our natural environment to its full potential but not during weather warnings.

Blanc von lobster

ted1 wrote: »

It was only 25 knots at the lake. The kite surfer has won both the Irish and British national titles.
The previous week the weather didn’t have a name and was blown 35 knots and no one cared

It was also only a yellow warning= Yellow Not unusual weather. Localised danger.

Was he on the east coast and the storm still a couple of hundred miles off the west coast?

Bruthal

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Then expect them to risk their lives to dig you out of a hole you dug yourself by ignoring their advice.

Surely you can’t justify that.

It was 25 knots on the lake in question. Is that too dangerous for kite surfing?

If there is a weather warning in Kerry, is the said 25 knots now more dangerous in Wexford?

GarIT

Bruthal wrote: »

It was 25 knots on the lake in question. Is that too dangerous for kite surfing?

Probably not but that's has nothing to do with the point. You shouldn't engage in outdoor sports during a weather warning.

Brendan Bendar

Bruthal wrote: »

It was 25 knots on the lake in question. Is that too dangerous for kite surfing?

Again you folk try to evade the issue.

The lad ignored advice from the emergency services, and had to be rescued.

Apparently runs a school, so what example is that giving to those learning there.

Lads, like I said you are digging a hole for yourselves here big time.

Doing yourselves and your hobby no good at all here.

Raconteuse

Ignore weather warnings to do completely unnecessary stuff and waste emergency services' time and resources because... lots of necessary things involve risk.

Not great argument really.

Bruthal

GarIT wrote: »

Probably not but that's has nothing to do with the point. You shouldn't engage in outdoor sports during a weather warning.

So, he got injured due to conditions being too dangerous?

GarIT

Bruthal wrote: »

So, he got injured due to conditions being too dangerous?

No, he got injured around the time of a weather warning which may or may not have been related to the conditions.

I have no interest in whether the weather was a factor or not. Just that services were wasted around a time they could have been needed elsewhere. When you're told stay indoors and don't take risks by the experts you follow that.

Bruthal

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Again you folk try to evade the issue.

The lad ignored advice from the emergency services, and had to be rescued.

Rescued in 25 knot winds. Not unusual to kite surf in 25 knot winds.

Apparently runs a school, so what example is that giving to those learning there.

That you can get injured in 25 knot winds. Or 10 knot winds. Or riding a bicycle.

Lads, like I said you are digging a hole for yourselves here big time.

No, sitting on a couch. But I have sailed in 25 knot winds. Have you?

Doing yourselves and your hobby no good at all here.

I dont do kite surfing. Do you?

Bruthal

GarIT wrote: »

No, he got injured around the time of a weather warning which may or may not have been related to the conditions.

I have no interest in whether the weather was a factor or not. Just that services were wasted around a time they could have been needed elsewhere. When you're told stay indoors and don't take risks by the experts you follow that.

So a weather warning in Cork, dont go out in Wexford in case someone needs rescuing in Cork, is that it?

Did you take any risks today?

GarIT

Bruthal wrote: »

So a weather warning in cork, dont go out in wexford in case someone needs rescuing in cork, is that it?

Did you take any risks today?

No, if the weather warning is in one place it's fine to engage in sports in places where the warning wasn't present. But that wasn't the case here.

Brendan Bendar

Bruthal wrote: »

Rescued in 25 knot winds. Not unusual to kite surf in 25 knot winds.


That you can get injured in 25 knot winds. Or 10 knot winds. Or riding a bicycle.


No, sitting on a couch. But I have sailed in 25 knot winds. Have you?


I dont do kite surfing. Do you?

Again evading the issue.

Went against the advice of the emergency services, ended up being rescued, using resources which the emergency services could have needed to assist people elsewhere.

Making it worse, apparently running a school training kitesurfers.

I would suggest that safety training and respect for the advice of the emergency services would be on the curriculum.

Maybe leading by example could be reinforced.