Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

DM_7

adox wrote: »

Is anyone actually not blaming Woodward and the hierarchy? Sounds like pure deflection to me.

The manager also has to take responsibility for what he does. Ole has been abysmal.

I find it utterly bizarre that some people are spinning the line that because it is ultimately the owners and Woodward’s fault that the club is in such a mess that there is no point in sacking the manager.
Coming to this conclusion looking back on previous post Fergie sackings and where they have got us.
Coming to this conclusion now when we have a man in charge who has little to no experience in top flight football management. A man who has one of the worst records in living memory as Utd manager. A man who has overseen the shrinking of a squad that already needed additions. A man who hasn’t progressed the team in any way.

Sacking managers doesn’t seem to be working so let’s stop and stick with a guy who is the least qualified post Fergie appointment with the worst record?

I mean it is utter madness.

What did I miss, I don't think anyone said what your arguing against.

But did then did I agree with you.

FatherTed

xtal191 wrote: »

Not having a go at you but the whole Pep and Klopp argument is ridiculous, they're 100 times better managers than Ole will ever be.

Do people honestly think they would've went into this season with such a poor/thin squad if they had a full window to improve it?

But do we know if the current squad makeup is Ole's fault or Woodward's? My question how much better would we be with Klopp or Pep with this squad?

adox

DM_7 wrote: »

What did I miss, I don't think anyone said what your arguing against.

But did then did I agree with you.

Liam has said a few times that there is no point in sacking Ole as the problems are higher up. I was referring to his posts(maybe I should have quoted him but wanted to make a general point and I’ve heard the same argument elsewhere).

Hococop

I want ole gone as I think he is out of his depth, it would be a good move to have him moved to dof and get a new manager like poch in

But as others have said owners are the problem, look at the Tampa Bay bucs, 12 seasons straight of no playoffs, only team worse are the browns ( and I believe they are cursed more that anything ha)

It's crazy they have not made it once in that time considering the way the draft should help them, just shows how poor it's run

DM_7

adox wrote: »

Liam has said a few times that there is no point in sacking Ole as the problems are higher up. I was referring to his posts(maybe I should have quoted him but wanted to make a general point and I’ve heard the same argument elsewhere).

Oh right, I thought he was blaming the players.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Is there actually no way the supporters can affect change? Everyone seems so accepting of it.

malinheader

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is there actually no way the supporters can affect change? Everyone seems so accepting of it.

Should follow the arsenal approach. Lindguard was that bad Last night the arsenal fans booed him when walking off.totally agree with them.

Whatsisname

Lindguard ffs :pac:

Liam O

Linderguaard

malinheader

Lingard. There yous go. Just incase you want it printed on a shirt.

Headshot

Lingaard :-D

Drumpot

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is there actually no way the supporters can affect change? Everyone seems so accepting of it.

There is, Liverpool fans were very acting getting rid of Gillette and Hicks as far as I know. I also heard that fan intervention is usually the only thing that budged American football owners over in the US (not sure how factual that is to be fair).

I think a disastrous season with Ole is more likely to signal change and possibly a fan uprising, then if Poch comes in and gets us top 4. This club has no excuse for not being challanging for top honors every other year. It has the financial clout to outdo every club bar maybe one in England. They are easily in the top 5 clubs in the world capable of building a savage squad. And yet we are here arguing over whether Poch can come in and maybe get us into the top 4 after the club has spent the last few months offloading some of our most senior players.

I actually do see some signs that things may actually be significantly better if Ole gets a few breaks. He hasn’t exactly been fortunate with injuries or Pogba (a club issue) or the club getting in required players. In many regards his tenure has been about “draining the swamp” (if that’s what you think) so he’s been in kind of a weird period for the club. Whatever manager takes over that squad won’t be doing much without some serious additions.

As I’ve said before I see the argument for Ole being sacked and don’t have an issue with people wanting him replaced.. Any other club would have him gone by now but this isn’t a normal run club so maybe a radical departure from common precise is required. We aren’t a title challenging team right now, we have at best a Europa league squad that may make the semis if the draw is kind. While I don’t want to miss out on Poch (if he’s actually interested) there is a part of me that wants to see how a full season of Ole works out. I can do some mental gymnastics to see a scenario where there is a potentially decent strategy at play that will take time. Problem is unfortunately that Woodwards record is as unproven at Oles so as always a wait and see approach is required.

Giruilla

Ole been extremely unfortunate with Scott McTominay injury. Could well be his sole undoing.
Pogba should never have been bought, and gonna be delighted when he finally leaves.

StringerBell

Of all the things could point to that would go into the sole undoing category, young midfielder getting injured isn't going to be one

GSPfan

Is he gone yet?

I swear to you I’m praying for the day the club is sold. Absolutely no one could be as pathetic an owner as the Glazers. Bring on the bloody Saudi’s if that’s what it takes.

The_Kew_Tour

The takeover talk has died down a lot recently.

I have sadly given up on Ole getting the sack. I fear it's going be horrid 5 months in store to come before anything is done.

As mad as what it sounds I love see Ole stay and just turn it around(I know I know) but lost all hope and its fairytale stuff now

Cantona's Collars

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The takeover talk has died down a lot recently.

I have sadly given up on Ole getting the sack. I fear it's going be horrid 5 months in store to come before anything is done.

As mad as what it sounds I love see Ole stay and just turn it around(I know I know) but lost all hope and its fairytale stuff now

I've a feeling that Woodward won't pull the trigger until top 4 is mathematically out of the club's reach.
Within the next few weeks we could be out of 2 cup competitions as there's zero consistency in our performance and no guarantee that we can beat anyone.

malinheader

Have to agree with GSP,change of ownership is only thing that is going to bring change. Woodward getting rid of ole or ole stepping down is only going round in circles. Woodward and the glaziers are the problem and until they are gone nothing will change. We can no longer attract big name players and have to pay silly money for mediocre players and no manager with pedigree is going to want to come and get their reputation destroyed. The question is now is how much further is the club going to be destroyed before they leave.

This time last season after 21 games, a team would have needed 44 points to sit in 4th place. This season after 21 games, it only takes 36 points. I reckon as long as Top 4 is within that kind of reach, Ole remains at United.

The failures of Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal this season are keeping Ole in the job as much as anything he is doing himself.

beno619

At this stage Olé could survive an 10th place finish 40pts off Liverpool.

Everyone else is doing so poorly that he'll get away with it and a large section of the fanbase are somehow content with what's going on.

Only a relegation scare pushes him over the edge imo.

hetuzozaho

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Is there actually no way the supporters can affect change? .

A strongly worded email from the Untied fans on boards.ie

mcgragger

He won't get sacked. 17 matches left in the PL.
2 cups but in all likelihood we'll be out of them before we go to Anfield for a hiding.

Its going to be grim.
Forget top 4.
9 points to earn to guarantee safety. That's the goal.

Dark times.

malinheader

Does anyone really think honestly. If ole goes and a new manager comes in,say pochettino. That were not going to be in the same situation this time next year. The problem at United is far Deeper than the manager.

Rayne Wooney

If Chelsea were 10 points better off the people backing Ole would be up in arms, it doesn’t make sense.

8 wins in 21 is more than a sackable offence, it doesn’t matter what any other team is doing.

I don’t understand how people are so shortsighted, it appears as though Ole still has the majority behind him which is startling.

I understand the majority of these fans are afraid to be bitten again because they wanted the last 3 managers sacked ie the Mourinho blamers, but at some point you need to call a spade a spade and accept reality.

StringerBell

malinheader wrote: »

Does anyone really think honestly. If ole goes and a new manager comes in,say pochettino. That were not going to be in the same situation this time next year. The problem at United is far Deeper than the manager.

I think it should probably be stickied at some point.

No, nobody, there is not one single person, in the entire Man United fan base who thinks the problem at United does not go deeper than the manager.

That the problem goes deeper than the manager is not an excuse for a clearly failing manager to be kept on.

Liam O

beno619 wrote: »

At this stage Olé could survive an 10th place finish 40pts off Liverpool.

Everyone else is doing so poorly that he'll get away with it and a large section of the fanbase are somehow content with what's going on.

Only a relegation scare pushes him over the edge imo.

This month is the big one for me really. I said I'd take a 10th place finish if it meant that the club started to move in the right direction. If they sit idly by when there's players who can improve the team out there in every position then I'll lose faith that there is a plan to actually build something and believe the rigmarole will start again with a new manager coming in with his own ideas and the same lads survive another year.

Why would you move to United though and risk your own fans turning you into a laughing stock? The allure is possibly gone but the likes of Milinkovic-Savic should still be attainable surely? At a smaller club and can blow the wages out of the water. These are signings that can and should be pushed for this month.

malinheader

United are like a car leaking oil and ready to seize. The owners will probably end up changing the tyres and just hoping that the leak stops.

malinheader

StringerBell wrote: »

I think it should probably be stickied at some point.

No, nobody, there is not one single person, in the entire Man United fab base who thinks the problem at United does not go deeper than the manager.

That the problem goes deeper than the manager is not an excuse for a clearly failing manager to be kept on.

Excepted. Only problem here is. What manager pep,Rodgers whoever could be successful under Woodward and co. Starting at the end of a problem never works.

Cantona's Collars

malinheader wrote: »

Excepted. Only problem here is. What manager pep,Rodgers whoever could be successful under Woodward and co. Starting at the end of a problem never works.

Yes, Woodward and the Glazers are a massive problem but they don't set the team up and consistently pick out of form players or stand on the touchline as things go awry on the pitch and whisper in Michael Carrick's ear instead of trying to improve the on field situation.
The fans in general feel sorry for Ole, Woodward yet again made another misstep by appointing Ole as full time manager when he did, results were on the slide and instead of waiting to see if that was a blip or the norm he gave him a contract while everyone looked on baffled by the timing of it.
Ole looks clearly out of his depth and doesn't look like turning things around,of course there are rumours of the players not trusting him,they like him but they don't have any faith in his methods seems to be the whispers coming from the squad. That's the stuff that gets management sacked at clubs.
He's too pally with certain players who aren't putting in the performance to deserve that. Instead of showing them the door,he's offered them new contacts. In any other line of work they'd be let go long ago but United reward mediocrity these days.
If Woodward had any sense he'd say no if the contracts of certain players were put on his desk for renewal,for all his boasting of doing things other clubs can only dream of he's every bit as complicit as Ole for allowing this attitude of "sure it'll do" fester at the club.
How could he have sat and watched his manager smile and laugh after being out fought by bloody Arsenal of all teams and think "yeah, he's doing a decent job"?
The whole club needs root and branch reform but unfortunately as nice a guy as Ole is, he'll have to go first,we can't just keep meandering around and being that team who raise their game every now and then,we used to laugh at Liverpool for that but now the shoe is on the other foot yet the club seem to think that's okay.

malinheader

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Yes, Woodward and the Glazers are a massive problem but they don't set the team up and consistently pick out of form players or stand on the touchline as things go awry on the pitch and whisper in Michael Carrick's ear instead of trying to improve the on field situation.
The fans in general feel sorry for Ole, Woodward yet again made another misstep by appointing Ole as full time manager when he did, results were on the slide and instead of waiting to see if that was a blip or the norm he gave him a contract while everyone looked on baffled by the timing of it.
Ole looks clearly out of his depth and doesn't look like turning things around,of course there are rumours of the players not trusting him,they like him but they don't have any faith in his methods seems to be the whispers coming from the squad. That's the stuff that gets management sacked at clubs.
He's too pally with certain players who aren't putting in the performance to deserve that. Instead of showing them the door,he's offered them new contacts. In any other line of work they'd be let go long ago but United reward mediocrity these days.
If Woodward had any sense he'd say no if the contracts of certain players were put on his desk for renewal,for all his boasting of doing things other clubs can only dream of he's every bit as complicit as Ole for allowing this attitude of "sure it'll do" fester at the club.
How could he have sat and watched his manager smile and laugh after being out fought by bloody Arsenal of all teams and think "yeah, he's doing a decent job"?
The whole club needs root and branch reform but unfortunately as nice a guy as Ole is, he'll have to go first,we can't just keep meandering around and being that team who raise their game every now and then,we used to laugh at Liverpool for that but now the shoe is on the other foot yet the club seem to think that's okay.

Hey I agree 100%with everything you said. But unless there is a change at the top I feel we will be shouting the same thing next year about a different manager. We will soon be at the stage of not being able to attract a suitable manager if we're not already there. Don't take me wrong ole hasn't a clue and should be gone.

Whatsisname

:pac:

https://twitter.com/MUFC_Aman7/status/1212955554332712968?s=20

ollkiller

GSPfan wrote: »

Is he gone yet?

I swear to you I’m praying for the day the club is sold. Absolutely no one could be as pathetic an owner as the Glazers. Bring on the bloody Saudi’s if that’s what it takes.

Well at least it would be interesting. Dosen't get top four, ends up in an acid bath after being dismembered. Never a dull moment.

These problems are not all Ole's fault. The frankly diabolical recruitment over the last 6 years since Alex's retirement (and in the last few years of his rule the recruitment wasn't that great either) has led us to where we are now.

So what recruitment has Ole done. 3 signings and 3 good ones. At times the team is playing better than i've seen them play in years. So i'm willing to give Ole this transfer window and the next one and see can he build a team. Or we can just keep sacking managers over and over again. Because that has worked so well over the last 6 years.

bucketybuck

malinheader wrote: »

Hey I agree 100%with everything you said. But unless there is a change at the top I feel we will be shouting the same thing next year about a different manager.

No, not necessarily. Depending on what you mean by a change at the top.

Take Jose for example. If 18 months ago the decision was made to buy him a few players he wanted, get rid of the players he didn't want and generally make it clear to all and sundry that he was the man in charge then it is quite possible that we would now be comfortable in top 4 and finally seeing a change in culture at the club.

No regime change needed, no Glazers out, no Woodward out, just a decision to sell a player here and buy a player there and things could be very different right now.

There is no real reason why it couldn't be different again under a better manager. No real reason why a competent manager can't replicate Jose's feat of bringing that squad to 2nd place or even improve if he gets lucky on some new signings.

The owners are not good for the club but they are also not the reason why Ole continually loses to the likes of Watford. They are not good owners but the club can be successful with them as owners, we know that because it already happened.

I hear people say that there is no point changing manager again unless things change at boardroom level as well. I don't subscribe to that way of thinking, its like saying there is no point replacing Shaw at left back unless Woodward goes first. Can we improve in a position? Then improve there, regardless of what else is needed in other areas.

Quandary

Sacking the failing manager needs to happen. Its the only realistic positive change the fans can hope for. The owners and Woodward are not going anywhere and short of mass protests and mass boycotting of home games at OT that is not going to change any time soon.

bucketybuck

ollkiller wrote: »

So what recruitment has Ole done. 3 signings and 3 good ones.

So its Ole's recruitment again? Hard to tell some times, he seems to avoid criticism for the bad parts of it.

Regardless, I have a question. These 3 good signings, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James, are any of them better players today than they were 12 months ago?

Have they improved at United?

Fitz*

Yep Ole, the FA are using heated balls in order to fix the FA Cup against Man United. First VAR is bending the rules to give Liverpool the PL title, and now this :pac:

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/1213043319732932609

limnam

wi

bucketybuck wrote: »

So its Ole's recruitment again? Hard to tell some times, he seems to avoid criticism for the bad parts of it.

Regardless, I have a question. These 3 good signings, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James, are any of them better players today than they were 12 months ago?

Have they improved at United?

Without going to all thier stats

with the naked eye it looks like at least two of them have gone backwards.

Whatsisname

bucketybuck wrote: »

So its Ole's recruitment again? Hard to tell some times, he seems to avoid criticism for the bad parts of it.

Regardless, I have a question. These 3 good signings, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James, are any of them better players today than they were 12 months ago?

Have they improved at United?

I'd almost make the case that James was the only good signing.

While I really rate AWB, we probably needed a better attacking RB. Think he'd be a monster in a back 3 personally. Maguire, I'm failing to see how he's that much better than Smalling, especially unsure of why we bought a player so exposed if we're trying to play a higher line.

malinheader

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, not necessarily. Depending on what you mean by a change at the top.

Take Jose for example. If 18 months ago the decision was made to buy him a few players he wanted, get rid of the players he didn't want and generally make it clear to all and sundry that he was the man in charge then it is quite possible that we would now be comfortable in top 4 and finally seeing a change in culture at the club.

No regime change needed, no Glazers out, no Woodward out, just a decision to sell a player here and buy a player there and things could be very different right now.

There is no real reason why it couldn't be different again under a better manager. No real reason why a competent manager can't replicate Jose's feat of bringing that squad to 2nd place or even improve if he gets lucky on some new signings.

The owners are not good for the club but they are also not the reason why Ole continually loses to the likes of Watford. They are not good owners but the club can be successful with them as owners, we know that because it already happened.

I hear people say that there is no point changing manager again unless things change at boardroom level as well. I don't subscribe to that way of thinking, its like saying there is no point replacing Shaw at left back unless Woodward goes first. Can we improve in a position? Then improve there, regardless of what else is needed in other areas.

Woodward is brilliant at making money.What the Glaziers are interested in. Totally incompetent when it comes to signings and the football side of things both these he has proven.
But we won't have long now to see who is right I think.
How many more managers will we need to go through before the penny drops.
Bigger question who will want to come to us.

Drumpot

So Poch comes in, works with the same failed people and the same failed club and what then? Do we want the next manager of the moment or do we then finally turn on the owners?

I’d rather fans collectively just turned on the owners online and at the ground. I think things would change very quickly. Liverpool haven’t gotten to where they are by just changing managers, they changed owners and how they run the club. Klopp was like their final piece. The last 7 league winners had all the pieces in place to help their managers succeed, we keep turning to managers to fix what we know is really wrong.

We are placing way too much of our hope on a golden goose manager coming in and somehow fixing the mess. It’s possible but very unlikely as far as I’m concerned. The current owners have a club that’s consistently in the top 3 richest clubs in the world and they can’t even manage the club into the top 4 in England. It’s deplorable, negligent and borderline abuse at this stage. Until fans rise agaisnt the owners I’m gonna try and just go along with whatever half baked sh*te they give us cause we are getting everything we deserve if we can’t even stage a few protests.

I’m guessing once Pogba is sold, Maybe 200-250 will be spent next summer which will sound impressive. But once expensive players purged are factored in it will of been a net spend near a fraction of that figure for the last three years. Creative accounting by our bean counter at his tricks again. Maybe there will be a Sancho so fans will be too busy enjoying our shiny new star to care. I really am sick of this club, so predictably run by horrible muppets. They keep treating us fans like mushrooms, dumping sh*t on us and keeping us in the dark.

malinheader

Quandary wrote: »

Sacking the failing manager needs to happen. Its the only realistic positive change the fans can hope for. The owners and Woodward are not going anywhere and short of mass protests and mass boycotting of home games at OT that is not going to change any time soon.

Yes. You really have to ask yourself what has happened to this club when the supporters are not already boycotting and protesting.

Cantona's Collars

bucketybuck wrote: »

So its Ole's recruitment again? Hard to tell some times, he seems to avoid criticism for the bad parts of it.

Regardless, I have a question. These 3 good signings, Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James, are any of them better players today than they were 12 months ago?

Have they improved at United?

One was wanted by Jose for £30 million less than what we ended up paying,the other was one of the best full backs in the league last season and the other was recommended by Giggs.
Hardly genius scouting and recruitment there.

The_Kew_Tour

Every player at best of times makes mistakes but those Clips of Maguire from game other night is grim viewing.

Drumpot

malinheader wrote: »

Yes. You really have to ask yourself what has happened to this club when the supporters are not already boycotting and protesting.

We really are way too passive a fanbase unless it’s Wayne Rooney possibly leaving and then some of our fans will lynch his house! :rolleyes:

As I said , Liverpool fans put us to shame under Hicks and Gillette. I used to find Madrid fans petulant response to even small drops in performances annoying, Like spoilt children. But do you know what, they have standards they refuse to accept and demand to be at the level where they feel their club should be at consistantly.

Cantona's Collars

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Every player at best of times makes mistakes but those Clips of Maguire from game other night is grim viewing.

It seems the mediocrity virus is contagious. I've seen it asked elsewhere as to how long would it take for the new signings to be dragged down to the level of others in the team.

bucketybuck

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

It seems the mediocrity virus is contagious. I've seen it asked elsewhere as to how long would it take for the new signings to be dragged down to the level of others in the team.

Its a very real problem. We have three "good" signings that have come in and make absolutely **** all difference to the side, and despite new blood being desperately required the likelihood is that whoever we buy next is not going to be the sort of world beater that improves everybody around him, but instead be yet another player of potential who will regress because he is now surrounded by and coached by dross.

Father Hernandez

Drumpot wrote: »

So Poch comes in, works with the same failed people and the same failed club and what then? Do we want the next manager of the moment or do we then finally turn on the owners?

I’d rather fans collectively just turned on the owners online and at the ground. I think things would change very quickly. Liverpool haven’t gotten to where they are by just changing managers, they changed owners and how they run the club. Klopp was like their final piece. The last 7 league winners had all the pieces in place to help their managers succeed, we keep turning to managers to fix what we know is really wrong.

We are placing way too much of our hope on a golden goose manager coming in and somehow fixing the mess. It’s possible but very unlikely as far as I’m concerned. The current owners have a club that’s consistently in the top 3 richest clubs in the world and they can’t even manage the club into the top 4 in England. It’s deplorable, negligent and borderline abuse at this stage. Until fans rise agaisnt the owners I’m gonna try and just go along with whatever half baked sh*te they give us cause we are getting everything we deserve if we can’t even stage a few protests.

I’m guessing once Pogba is sold, Maybe 200-250 will be spent next summer which will sound impressive. But once expensive players purged are factored in it will of been a net spend near a fraction of that figure for the last three years. Creative accounting by our bean counter at his tricks again. Maybe there will be a Sancho so fans will be too busy enjoying our shiny new star to care. I really am sick of this club, so predictably run by horrible muppets. They keep treating us fans like mushrooms, dumping sh*t on us and keeping us in the dark.

This was working for a while I remember certainly on Twitter when they were getting Glazers Out to trend, etc. Not ground breaking but a start.

At the ground is where it should really be happening, more TV camera's to vent anger, signs (undoubtedly taken away prob), a walkout, etc. I don't think by not going will change anything as seats will be filled.

Arsenal fans at the Frankfurt game vented against Emery, surely can happen at OT v Glazers.

Then again, maybe this forum is not indicative of others opinions as mentioned before. Going over next week so will get more of the general opinion amongst game going fans week in, week out.

VW 1

malinheader wrote: »

Yes. You really have to ask yourself what has happened to this club when the supporters are not already boycotting and protesting.

How does protest and boycotting go for fans of Newcastle trying to get Ashley to sell?

Or are British owners immune to protests and they only work on US owners?

It may have been a good suggestion 20+ years ago or before sky, but so much of the revenue comes from streams other than match day revenue it doesn't matter. All the Glazers care for is money in pockets and that isn't delivered by match going fans, not in any number that would be affected by a boycott due to the fact that most taking part will have already paid for their ticket as a season ticket holder.

Zico !

utd dont need to be winning for the glazers to make a shed load of money from the brand thats the problem -their mistake is leaving woodward make football decisions -as i always say regarding utd a director of football is needed aswell as a new manager-woodward should be put back in the commercial division
should be noted that utd have the biggest wage bill in the league

malinheader

VW 1 wrote: »

How does protest and boycotting go for fans of Newcastle trying to get Ashley to sell?

Or are British owners immune to protests and they only work on US owners?

It may have been a good suggestion 20+ years ago or before sky, but so much of the revenue comes from streams other than match day revenue it doesn't matter. All the Glazers care for is money in pockets and that isn't delivered by match going fans, not in any number that would be affected by a boycott due to the fact that most taking part will have already paid for their ticket as a season ticket holder.

So what should we do,just sit and smile and hope for the best..At least it would show me there are still some supporters passionate about the club and might get the message across that we don't want them and will not put up with being taken for fools anymore.

How do you think we should show our disapproval and let them know what a shower of. Can't say what I really want to.they are.