Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

stesaurus

stesaurus wrote: »

Not sure what you were expecting? This is a typical Utd away European performance going back probably the last 20 years

Missed this..

Typical performance? I expect 1 shot on target at the very least against a Serbian team currently placed 5th in their crap league

Name one game in Europe in the last 20 years where we had no shots on target. I doubt there are many if any

Fitz*

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Missed this..

Typical performance? I expect 1 shot on target at the very least against a Serbian team currently placed 5th in their crap league

Name one game in Europe in the last 20 years where we had no shots on target. I doubt there are many if any

......the game previous to this one.

Drumpot

I actually thought there were some encouraging signs in play. Very young team and they looked in control for long spells.

Chuck Noland

Missed the match tonight. Had training with my own team. I assume we were poor as allways?

PARlance

Chuck Noland wrote: »

Missed the match tonight. Had training with my own team. I assume we were poor as allways?

Yip, ye were terrible. Last time I'm going to one of your training sessions.

Chuck Noland

PARlance wrote: »

Yip, ye were terrible. Last time I'm going to one of your training sessions.

The stats don’t make great reading so was wondering if they tell the full story?

adox

Liam O wrote: »

You think Maguire played well?

It was a reaction to the fact that you enjoyed the game and thought the opposition were decent.

Plus your constant hard on for Jones.

Headshot

adox wrote: »

It was a reaction to the fact that you enjoyed the game and thought the opposition were decent.

Plus your constant hard on for Jones.

Who would blame him tbh

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/babb/11612394/Phil-Jones-The-best-bits-ever.html

The man has an expression for every day of the week

PARlance

Chuck Noland wrote: »

The stats don’t make great reading so was wondering if they tell the full story?

Really depends on your disposition. I went into the game knowing that we need a no. 9 and 10 in our first team let alone a second string team that would be play. We were ok but lacking up top.

Positives:
Williams looks a very good player, Shaw needs competition there.
My 5 year old got to see United win, his highlight being that the penalty was converted by a guy with the same name as a Paw Patrol character, kinda.
Rojo is never boring. It didn't always pay off but he looks for the dangerous ball forward. I also like seeing a left footed player playing LCB.
Garner got minutes, it'll stand to him.
Rashford came on wide left putting Ole's fairytale of him become an out and out striker completely to bed imo.

It's a Thursday night, it'll do. Some may say it's the end of the world though.

Chuck Noland

PARlance wrote: »

Really depends on your disposition. I went into the game knowing that we need a no. 9 and 10 in our first team let alone a second string team that would be play. We were ok but lacking up top.

Positives:
Williams looks a very good player, Shaw needs competition there.
My 5 year old got to see United win, his highlight being that the penalty was converted by a guy with the same name as a Paw Patrol character, kinda.
Rojo is never boring. It didn't always pay off but he looks for the dangerous ball forward. I also like seeing a left footed player playing LCB.
Garner got minutes, it'll stand to him.
Rashford came on wide left putting Ole's fairytale of him become an out and out striker completely to bed imo.

It's a Thursday night, it'll do. Some may say it's the end of the world though.

You sound like LVG with the left footed cb. Ha ha
I like Rojo he’s a crazy man! Unless Martial can stay fit we will have to get used to Rash uptop as dont have anyone else!

Liam O

adox wrote: »

It was a reaction to the fact that you enjoyed the game and thought the opposition were decent.

Plus your constant hard on for Jones.

They were I thought, some good pressing and they seemed decent with the ball at times. I like good defending which I think United showed a good bit of. Bar Maguire getting turned inside out but I suppose no mark attackers could do that to an 80m player?

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to believe Jones is a decent player. As I said earlier, it's like people watch him waiting to put the knife in so even when he plays well, as he did tonight, they just criticise every minor thing. He was England's 3rd choice CB at the last World Cup and has a lot of the attributes required to be good defender, just can't stay fit generally. But sure, people used to laugh at Evans in a similar way. He's probably better than anything United have at CB now, 80m Harry and all.

PARlance

Chuck Noland wrote: »

You sound like LVG with the left footed cb. Ha ha
I like Rojo he’s a crazy man! Unless Martial can stay fit we will have to get used to Rash uptop as dont have anyone else!

I'm fairly sure Ole has completely binned the idea of Rashford central now, thankfully. We've seen Greenwood playing ahead of him there, when both on the pitch. We saw Pereira playing as a kinda false 9 vs Liverpool. Rashford came on for Martial tonight and Ole switched to 4-2-3-1 with Rashford left and Lingard 9... So I think it's safe to assume the penny has dropped.

Two big positives in that for me.
1. Rashford is miles better wide left.
2. We'll almost certainly be getting a striker in Jan.

Williams got MOTM, fair play

stesaurus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Missed this..

Typical performance? I expect 1 shot on target at the very least against a Serbian team currently placed 5th in their crap league

Name one game in Europe in the last 20 years where we had no shots on target. I doubt there are many if any

Missed it but what re-read the thread later that night? Anyway, my comment was at half-time. First half was a typical Utd away euro performance going back to Fergie's successful period. Solksjaer was schooled in that so not like he's going to year up the blueprint.

Second half was a different story. There was no control or comfort. We were abject and if they were any use at all in the final third would have probably lost.

I don't know if it's a mental issue or something else but we've been like this for a while going back into José's reign. Take a lead, look ok but then sit further and further back while inviting on pressure.

bucketybuck

PARlance wrote: »

So I think it's safe to assume the penny has dropped.

Consider it though. The manager earmarked Rashford as his guy right from the start, clearly prioritising him over Lukaku last season which in turn led to that departure in the summer.

From 1st Feb until the end of the season Rashford scored 2 PL goals but more than that, his performances were ****ing shocking in that period. Thats not hindsight, go back and read what was said at the time.

The manager had 4 months of terrible performance and a poor goal return but in the summer still decided to persist with this player, to approve the sale of the alternative striker and not to push for any replacement whatsoever. That was his decision.

Now we are what, a dozen games into the season and the manager has finally twigged what everybody else could see 8 months ago?

I'm sorry but that is piss poor from the manager. Poor judgement of players, poor recognition of what was happening in front of him, poor decision making, just a poor handling of things in every way.

limnam

Liam O wrote: »

They were I thought, some good pressing and they seemed decent with the ball at times. I like good defending which I think United showed a good bit of. Bar Maguire getting turned inside out but I suppose no mark attackers could do that to an 80m player?

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to believe Jones is a decent player. As I said earlier, it's like people watch him waiting to put the knife in so even when he plays well, as he did tonight, they just criticise every minor thing. He was England's 3rd choice CB at the last World Cup and has a lot of the attributes required to be good defender, just can't stay fit generally. But sure, people used to laugh at Evans in a similar way. He's probably better than anything United have at CB now, 80m Harry and all.

Jones is a good defender.

Last night he was bloody rubbish.

dave_o_brien

bucketybuck wrote: »

The manager ... decided to persist with this player, to approve the sale of the alternative striker and not to push for any replacement whatsoever. That was his decision.

You don't know that.

The Nal

The real issue here is can we hang on to Lingard in January?

bucketybuck

dave_o_brien wrote: »

You don't know that.

Yes we do, Ole unequivocally said that it was his decision.

ETA: To save anybody searching:

‘I’m 100 per cent sure from my time here that the structure is right because it is always the manager who has the final say. ‘Myself and Mick [Mike Phelan] are the ones who make the decisions on the players that we want to have.

dave_o_brien

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes we do, Ole unequivocally said that it was his decision.

ETA: To save anybody searching:

And he has gone on the record about only wanting to acquire the "right" players, not just the players who were available at the time. You cannot possibly know that Ole did not want an additional striker or attacking players with certainty. He may have been saying that to control the message about who is in control at United.

I think it's obvious that he wanted extra players but could not get them for whatever reason. Again, I don't know that, but that's my opinion. You can have a different one so long as you recognise it's an opinion and not a fact.

bucketybuck

You are replying to what you think I said, not what I actually said.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are replying to what you think I said, not what I actually said.

You said he did not push for a replacement at all. Regardless of what is said in public none of us know exactly what happens behind the scenes and whether Ole was pushing for United to sign a attacking player before the window ended.

dave_o_brien

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are replying to what you think I said, not what I actually said.

No, I'm replying to what you said. The issue is that you have taken Ole's words at face value and I do not.

To repeat it, and for the avoidance of doubt, my only issue with what you have said is this bit:

"The manager ... still decided...not to push for any replacement whatsoever".

The bit in bold is not something you can say with authority. Quoting Ole's "I'm the gaffer" statement does not add authority.

You can be annoyed with me for calling you out on this if you like (I have a reputation for being extremely pedantic in most aspects of my life, there was even an Asperger's test at one point) but it doesn't change any fact about this.

EDIT: I also do not appreciate being condescended to with a faux intellectual statement like yours above. It might sound smart but it was nonsense. You are generally a far better poster than that, one who I generally enjoy reading. That was beneath you.

Plasandrunt

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Rookie mistake, don't place bets at the stadium.
I'll find out how lads that did the same got their winnings.

Yeah I know that now, i thought it was via Bedfred and it's not. All Kiosk's close at the start of the 2nd half too. Tried getting in contact with BD Stadia but they don't even have a contact number.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

So Rashford, Martial/Greenwood, James is our best front 3 now?

adox

Liam O wrote: »

They were I thought, some good pressing and they seemed decent with the ball at times. I like good defending which I think United showed a good bit of. Bar Maguire getting turned inside out but I suppose no mark attackers could do that to an 80m player?

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to believe Jones is a decent player. As I said earlier, it's like people watch him waiting to put the knife in so even when he plays well, as he did tonight, they just criticise every minor thing. He was England's 3rd choice CB at the last World Cup and has a lot of the attributes required to be good defender, just can't stay fit generally. But sure, people used to laugh at Evans in a similar way. He's probably better than anything United have at CB now, 80m Harry and all.

Wasting time on Jones is a distraction the club could do without. He has proven time and time again unable to stay fit. That in itself is case enough for him not to be at the club, nevermind the merits of his talents or lack of.

Maguire is the best central defender at the club. He wasn't my choice and I was against signing him but to suggest that Evans is a better defender, I mean come on?

I thought the match last night was awful. No quality from UTD and very little from the opposition. I didn't think they had to defend well.

I just can't see how any UTD fan enjoyed that game last night. It was awful imo.

bucketybuck

dave_o_brien wrote: »

You can be annoyed with me for calling you out on this if you like

Annoyed? No. But it is true that there is now absolutely no discussion about whether the manager has handled the whole Rashford situation correctly, which was the point of the original post in the first place.

As for taking Ole's words at face value, he said those words so he needs to own them. That is always my opinion.

And yes, it is an opinion that he did not push for another striker, though it would have been more accurate to say that he did not push "hard" for another striker. I don't quite get why this is debatable, is it not well known that Ole didn't want to just buy somebody for the sake of it? Has he not said that?

To me that clearly signifies that he could have gotten somebody in as cover but decided not to. He decided not to get an attacker when it was clear to everybody else that one was needed. And that was a horrible decision, which brings us back to the original point, an assessment of the manager and the decisions he is making.

DM_7

dave_o_brien wrote: »

You don't know that.

We do know Martial is the preferred CF but that does not seem to get much mention.

The whole Rashford over Lukaku thing is tedious, especially when so many reasons for Lukaku to go existed.

United needed another striker regardless of the Lukaku transfer. Club will regret that they failed to get one in the short term.

limnam

adox wrote: »

Maguire is the best central defender at the club. He wasn't my choice and I was against signing him but to suggest that Evans is a better defender, I mean come on?

Not to argue this point too much. I thought I had heard/read during the summer that statistically Evans was the better defender last year in many areas.

So it's not that far off

Father Hernandez

He probably won't but I think Williams deserves to start on Sunday.

Decent game, won the chance for the penalty and a bright spark in a relatively disappointing night performance wise.

dave_o_brien

bucketybuck wrote: »

Annoyed? No. But it is true that there is now absolutely no discussion about whether the manager has handled the whole Rashford situation correctly, which was the point of the original post in the first place.

As for taking Ole's words at face value, he said those words so he needs to own them. That is always my opinion.

And yes, it is an opinion that he did not push for another striker, though it would have been more accurate to say that he did not push "hard" for another striker. I don't quite get why this is debatable, is it not well known that Ole didn't want to just buy somebody for the sake of it? Has he not said that?

To me that clearly signifies that he could have gotten somebody in as cover but decided not to. He decided not to get an attacker when it was clear to everybody else that one was needed. And that was a horrible decision, which brings us back to the original point, an assessment of the manager and the decisions he is making.

Oh, agreed, he decided not to get someone in for the sake of it. He decided to let Rom and Sanchez go (both of which I support). Those decisions left the squad thin, particularly in attack. We just don't know the degree to which he pushed for a player. You said he didn't push "whatsoever". I'm just saying you can't know that, which you seem to be agreeing with now, having changed to "whatsoever" to "hard".

On most other points, we seem to be in agreement. I know I have a tendency to be persnickety, so I hope you don't take me the wrong way and thing I'm having a go; I'm just saying that we don't know the degree to which Ole recognised the possibility for our attack to be so badly affected by a few injuries during the summer nor do we know the measures he did or did not take to have the club address them.

DM_7 wrote: »

We do know Martial is the preferred CF but that does not seem to get much mention.

The whole Rashford over Lukaku thing is tedious, especially when so many reasons for Lukaku to go existed.

United needed another striker regardless of the Lukaku transfer. Club will regret that they failed to get one in the short term.

Yeah, we still need another striker and additional midfield players. But I think we all already knew that, and I think Ole has said enough to suggest he knows it too.

Liam O

Father Hernandez wrote: »

He probably won't but I think Williams deserves to start on Sunday.

Decent game, won the chance for the penalty and a bright spark in a relatively disappointing night performance wise.

His pace is a worry at times though I think in getting back. But if the option is playing him or Young, I'd take him.

Father Hernandez

Liam O wrote: »

His pace is a worry at times though I think in getting back. But if the option is playing him or Young, I'd take him.

Agreed. Enjoyed this which I think was perhaps overlooked from last night.

https://twitter.com/ndiema002_/status/1187625976517287937?s=20

sky88

He really really inspires confidence doesn't he

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1187657453896232961?s=20

Mitch Connor

Ah, getting back to the days of Moyes.

The club is truly pathetic on every level.
Poor owners, poor executives, poor manangers, poor coaches, poor players.

Its a laughable mess, and every day it continues I lose a bit of respect and admiration for Ole, his status as a legendary player and good guy is being eroded, in my eyes, by the utter failure of his time in charge. I just don't want to hear him talk anymore, everything he says is infuriating.

Shanotheslayer

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ah, getting back to the days of Moyes.

The club is truly pathetic on every level.
Poor owners, poor executives, poor manangers, poor coaches, poor players.

Its a laughable mess

I got to as far as here and I genuinely thought I was in the Everton thread until I read further and saw Ole.

Adamcp898

His choice of words when communicating with the press is just so odd. Take this for example from that SkySports piece on his press conference this morning:

Ole via SkySports.com wrote:

"We are ready for it now, we've been to Belgrade here and got some players back. I managed to take off Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Anthony Martial off after 60 minutes because they've been out for a long time.

"So hopefully we'll have a fresh team because we'll need to be at our best to have a chance."

He talks as if it isn't his job to manage his players' fitness and to make a decision on who should play and for how many minutes. It's almost as if he feels it's purely down to chance whether he'll have a fit set of players to select on Sunday or not and that he has no control or influence over it.

None of that is terribly surprising given how woeful our fitness has been and how the squad has been managed this year though I suppose.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11844536/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-boss-wary-of-norwich-threat

Chuck Noland

That’s really poor from OGS. He came in banging his chest like Leo in the Wolfe Of Wall Street. He’s more akin to Mary’s little lamb now.

Unfortunately tho, under the current regime we will plod along until 4th isn’t an option mathematically, then sack him for the next manager who catches Ed’s eye. I feel dirty thinking back to when Moyes went and we got LVG and a few big name players that Ed was competent.

Liam O

Ah more misery, great.

Mitrovic should have been signed in the summer. Given Sessegnon went for 25m he probably could have been picked up for around 35-40m. Proven goalscorer and does a lot of the things they wanted Lukaku to do even in bad teams.

sReq | uTeK

sky88 wrote: »

He really really inspires confidence doesn't he

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1187657453896232961?s=20

Jesus if that correlates to who he is as a person no wonder the team are bereft of confidence.

sReq | uTeK

Adamcp898 wrote: »

His choice of words when communicating with the press is just so odd. Take this for example from that SkySports piece on his press conference this morning:



He talks as if it isn't his job to manage his players' fitness and to make a decision on who should play and for how many minutes. It's almost as if he feels it's purely down to chance whether he'll have a fit set of players to select on Sunday or not and that he has no control or influence over it.

None of that is terribly surprising given how woeful our fitness has been and how the squad has been managed this year though I suppose.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11844536/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-boss-wary-of-norwich-threat

It's unreal, even playing social astro the lads on the team will say right im back from an injury I'll only do 20 minutes in the 2nd half.

Father Hernandez

Fairly grim

https://twitter.com/vintage_utd/status/1187713555614879744?s=21

Rayne Wooney

There isn’t much Ole can say, I think he realises the “we are united” crap doesn’t fly with the fans anymore, “we’ll try our best” against Norwich is the reality we are at right now.

xtal191

He hopes we'll be able stop Norwich

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11844536/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-boss-wary-of-norwich-threat

Father Hernandez

xtal191 wrote: »

He hopes we'll be able stop Norwich

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11844536/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-boss-wary-of-norwich-threat

They bet Man City 3-2 at Carrow Road to be fair.

It's the way he's saying it though doesn't fill me or seemingly any of us with confidence.

Cookiemunster

In fairness the way we're playing, I hope we can stop them too!

damowill

dave_o_brien wrote: »

And he has gone on the record about only wanting to acquire the "right" players, not just the players who were available at the time.

Waiting for the right players:
Its a case of damned if we do and damned if we dont. We are damned now, because we didnt get a striker in for one reason or another. We dont know how much money had to spend on a striker last summer and we dont know which players they tried to get. Mandzukic and Dybala were probably not the right fit, both demanding huge wages, and question marks about their attitudes & whether they would fit into the dressing room. Getting a striker in last summer, that wasnt the right fit, may have helped in the short term. But Mandzukic is 33, and if you buy him you would have to give him a 2-3 year contract so are stuck with him for a few years.

Essentially Ole is sacrificing his managerial reputation for the long-term benefit of the club. In my eyes anyway. But football doesnt stand still. Results are needed at the end of the day and the right players need to be sought after in January or next summer, no matter the cost!!

DM_7

damowill wrote: »

Waiting for the right players:
Its a case of damned if we do and damned if we dont. We are damned now, because we didnt get a striker in for one reason or another. We dont know how much money had to spend on a striker last summer and we dont know which players they tried to get. Mandzukic and Dybala were probably not the right fit, both demanding huge wages, and question marks about their attitudes & whether they would fit into the dressing room. Getting a striker in last summer, that wasnt the right fit, may have helped in the short term. But Mandzukic is 33, and if you buy him you would have to give him a 2-3 year contract so are stuck with him for a few years.

Essentially Ole is sacrificing his managerial reputation for the long-term benefit of the club. In my eyes anyway. But football doesnt stand still. Results are needed at the end of the day and the right players need to be sought after in January or next summer, no matter the cost!!

Just to add that the Club also needed to stop short term thinking for temporary gains that see what looks like revovery but quickly crash.

PARlance

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Fairly grim

https://twitter.com/vintage_utd/status/1187713555614879744?s=21

Would that make AZ European Champs? Could you imagine the cricket score they would put up against Chelsea.

It's only as grim as you want it to be!

Bleating Lamb

Liam O wrote: »

His pace is a worry at times though I think in getting back. But if the option is playing him or Young, I'd take him.

Why is Williams pace a worry.......is he slow?