Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

Rayne Wooney

I find it impossible to believe that Quagliatella or Piatek would get near 20 goals in the PL but that’s just me

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/Malachians/status/1191513130322427905?s=20

King Spoofer

damowill

Regards the Saudis, United dont need their money. We dont get any money from the Glazers and yet have spent £900m in the last 6 years. Its money we have generated ourselves. But the Glazers have failed miserably at running the club especially football matters at the club. The structures havent been in place to be successful. So whos to say the Saudis will be any different.

Lord TSC

damowill wrote: »

The structures havent been in place to be successful. So whos to say the Saudis will be any different.

We KNOW the structure won't change under the Glaziers. If they were going to change it, they would have by now. The only way you'll see a change is if there's a change in owner.

Secondly, the Saudis wouldn't be coming in to just make money. They'd be buying the club for the positive PR that comes with winning. And any blind man can see in order to shift from "money makers" to "trophy winners", there'll have to be a radical change in the club's structure.

Mitch Connor

damowill wrote: »

Regards the Saudis, United dont need their money. We dont get any money from the Glazers and yet have spent £900m in the last 6 years. Its money we have generated ourselves. But the Glazers have failed miserably at running the club especially football matters at the club. The structures havent been in place to be successful. So whos to say the Saudis will be any different.

It could come down to intent?

Personally, I think Glazers just want United to make them money - finishing top 4 and sponsorship deals are their main goal. I don't think they actually care about winning the league, as evidenced by our performance in the league of the last 6 years and th elack of reform or accountability for that.

If the Saudi's bought United (and I reckon I'll be done with United if they do) I don't think money will be of any real concern for them. They would buy united as a piece of sportswashing, like City and PSG are. Tools to control a narrative, and in order to achieve that they will need a succesful United that brings them glory and plaudits. A continuing failure will draw attention to poor ownership and scrutiny on them and their practices.

They would demand United become the the best, quickly.

I think it would be obvious they would put money in - but money in doesn't equal success. Their intention of United being the best doesn't equal success - they would need to have concern and demand accountability for failure, and act to correct the wrongs within the club. Whether they would have the knowledge to get that right is the question.

But at the heart of it - I think the requirements of United and what constitutes success or failure woul be very different under Saudi ownership than under the Glazers who clearly don't care at all.

Backstreet Moyes

Lukaku matches Ronaldos record of 9 goals in the first 11 games for Inter

Good start to the season for Lukaku and Conte

MeMen2_MoRi_

There should be no doubts about the intent of the Saudis if they end up owning Utd. They'll be wanting to see the plaudits being lavished on their new shiny thing and everything that comes from that.
If things aren't going as planned I don't think they'll hesitate to act quickly in making it right.
There's huge benefits for the club if they buy it, there'll be no money going out of the club, money generated will be used for everything football related the only thing I think the Saudis would need to put money into is a new stadium. So 4 billion plus the cost of a new stadium and the club ends up running itself.

damowill

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If the Saudi's bought United (and I reckon I'll be done with United if they do) I don't think money will be of any real concern for them. They would buy united as a piece of sportswashing, like City and PSG are. Tools to control a narrative, and in order to achieve that they will need a succesful United that brings them glory and plaudits. A continuing failure will draw attention to poor ownership and scrutiny on them and their practices.

They would demand United become the the best, quickly.

I think it would be obvious they would put money in - but money in doesn't equal success. Their intention of United being the best doesn't equal success - they would need to have concern and demand accountability for failure, and act to correct the wrongs within the club. Whether they would have the knowledge to get that right is the question.

But at the heart of it - I think the requirements of United and what constitutes success or failure woul be very different under Saudi ownership than under the Glazers who clearly don't care at all.

Its disheartening for sure. We all want a change of ownership but is it a case of the devil you know?

We support a football club for many reasons, not just for the Glory. As supporters of the biggest club in the world, the running of the club has been nothing short of shambolic, and the supporters deserve better. Madrid, Bayern, Juve and Barcelona are nearly as big if not bigger, but there is no way they would find themselves in our position. Yet, i'm torn on the possibility of the Saudi's taking over... If they stump up £4billion, the club is theirs but United wont be guaranteed success under them

Lord TSC

damowill wrote: »

If they stump up £4billion, the club is theirs but United wont be guaranteed success under them

Genuine question here, is there an oil rich team that hasn't been successful under such ownerships? Pretty much all the ones i can think of have won a lot of trophies.

VW 1

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It could come down to intent?

Personally, I think Glazers just want United to make them money - finishing top 4 and sponsorship deals are their main goal. I don't think they actually care about winning the league, as evidenced by our performance in the league of the last 6 years and th elack of reform or accountability for that.

If the Saudi's bought United (and I reckon I'll be done with United if they do) I don't think money will be of any real concern for them. They would buy united as a piece of sportswashing, like City and PSG are. Tools to control a narrative, and in order to achieve that they will need a succesful United that brings them glory and plaudits. A continuing failure will draw attention to poor ownership and scrutiny on them and their practices.

They would demand United become the the best, quickly.

I think it would be obvious they would put money in - but money in doesn't equal success. Their intention of United being the best doesn't equal success - they would need to have concern and demand accountability for failure, and act to correct the wrongs within the club. Whether they would have the knowledge to get that right is the question.

But at the heart of it - I think the requirements of United and what constitutes success or failure woul be very different under Saudi ownership than under the Glazers who clearly don't care at all.

I understand the objection to their ways and policies and rights abuses etc etc, but stopping supporting the club is not something I'd contemplate, regardless of the results, manage or owners. Boycotting the club won't change the ownership now or the Saudis if they take over.

Do you buy petrol and support them in that way? I mean, at the end of the day, what does it ultimately matter?

Cantona's Collars

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/apr/07/rivals-grand-designs-put-glazers-neglect-of-old-trafford-in-spotlight

The last investment into the stadium was 2005 and no signs of any plans to do any more with it.

If anyone here has been to Manchester lately they'd see parallels with Dublin,tower cranes and sleek new buildings springing up all over the city centre while what should be the jewel in the crown in the area falling into disrepair while the owners leech money out of the club.

kona

Lord TSC wrote: »

Genuine question here, is there an oil rich team that hasn't been successful under such ownerships? Pretty much all the ones i can think of have won a lot of trophies.

P.S.G ? , give me the current united anyday over those bunch of whinging professional mercenary bottlers.

Will I Am Not

kona wrote: »

P.S.G ? , give me the current united anyday over those bunch of whinging professional mercenary bottlers.

Call me old fashioned but I’d much rather be winning leagues and bottling CL knockout stages with the Neymars and Mbappes of this world than flirting with the relegation zone and pissing about in Kazakhstan on a Thursday night sighing at the likes of Lingard and Pereira struggling to break down a bunch of part time shepherds.

BazBox

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I’d much rather be winning leagues and bottling CL knockout stages with the Neymars and Mbappes of this world than flirting with the relegation zone and pissing about in Kazakhstan on a Thursday night sighing at the likes of Lingard and Pereira struggling to break down a bunch of part time shepherds.

Love it

IITYWYBMAD

VW 1 wrote: »

...
Do you buy petrol and support them in that way? I mean, at the end of the day, what does it ultimately matter?

Most of the Oil imported into Ireland comes from Europe. In fact, I don't think we import any from the Middle East.

With regards to the vilification of the Saudi's, while I find most of the stuff you read about their ways and means repugnant, you have to admire the fact that they are quite open about their prejudices and human rights violations, outside of the murder of a journalist or two. I'd say they are in the halfpenny place when compared against the Americans/Russians and their appalling record on torture and murder. I get the Glazers/Fenway are not political behemoths also.

Mitch Connor

VW 1 wrote: »

I understand the objection to their ways and policies and rights abuses etc etc, but stopping supporting the club is not something I'd contemplate, regardless of the results, manage or owners. Boycotting the club won't change the ownership now or the Saudis if they take over.

Do you buy petrol and support them in that way? I mean, at the end of the day, what does it ultimately matter?

I take your point re. petrol etc.

However, I do see it as different. The Saudi government is HORRIBLE. They would be buying United due to its global reach and clout, of which I am a part (as are you, every fan). They would be buying United to be a tool or weapon against mainstream media, in the same way Qatar and Abu Dhabi use PSG and City. Look at City being all progressive on LGBT inclusion and championing Pep and his human rights views - while stoning gay people to death. They use the football club and its fans around the world to pressure media organizations (who make a lot of money off sports fans) into not looking deep or reporting wide on their human rights attrocities.

If Saudi buy United, they are looking to buy my (and your) defence of them in total, to be an outspoken critic of anyone who is an outspoken critic of them.

I would find it difficult to step away from United, but how can I cheer the success of a team achieved as a means to turn a blind eye to murder and genocide?

Cantona's Collars

You don't have to look as far as The Middle East for murder.

Cantona's Collars

I said before,dig deep enough and there's links to dodgy regimes everywhere.
Will you stop eating Irish beef because it's now being exported to China?

Trigger

Each to their own I suppose and I'm not going to criticise anyone decision on either side..


I for one welcome our new Saudi overlords!*

*if a takeover happens

Or maybe some couldn't give a **** what the Saudis do as long as they pump money into the Utd the football club

brinty

Trigger wrote:

I for one welcome our new Saudi overlords!*

Imagine the chaos that will ensue "when" it happens....

Cantona's Collars

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or maybe some couldn't give a **** what the Saudis do as long as they pump money into the Utd the football club

Derka derka..derka derka.

Mitch Connor

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You don't have to look as far as The Middle East for murder.

No, obviously not.

But are the Glazers using United to help hide murders or commit genocide?

Cause if they aren't.... I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? That all goverments are murderous? Yeah, probably, I wouldn't want any other government buying United to breed global good will in the face of murder, genocide and human rights abuses.

PARlance

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

You don't have to look as far as The Middle East for murder.

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Will you stop eating Irish beef because it's now being exported to China?

Meat is Murder?

Mitch Connor

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I said before,dig deep enough and there's links to dodgy regimes everywhere.
Will you stop eating Irish beef because it's now being exported to China?

Is Irish Beef exporting to China so that RTE and China state news don't look to much into the genocide of a country?

If it was just links, I'd have been gone long ago. Rightly or wrongly I look past links (we already have links to Saudi - training camps, friendlies).

Ownership goes beyond mere links, and turns United into a vehicle to sportswash away genocide and human rights abuses.

Lord TSC

PARlance wrote: »

Meat is Murder?

Yes.

Trigger

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

Or maybe some couldn't give a **** what the Saudis do as long as they pump money into the Utd the football club

And that is what they will bank on.
And that when anyone mentions the genocide they commit that United fans will rally to their defence cause who gives "*** what the Saudi's do as long as they pump money into the Utd the football club".

brinty

PARlance wrote:

Meat is Murder?

Great album, Morrissey and Johnny Marr are big United supporters too I believe

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No, obviously not.

But are the Glazers using United to help hide murders or commit genocide?

Cause if they aren't.... I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? That all goverments are murderous? Yeah, probably, I wouldn't want any other government buying United to breed global good will in the face of murder, genocide and human rights abuses.

The merch you buy is made in countries with dodgy human rights issues, clubs have sponsorship deals with companies from countries with horrible issues too.
Look at Arsenal with Visit Rwanda on their shirts,a country where genocide was an every day occurrence.
Stop all interaction and investment from these places and the league will be a different and poorer place. The likes of The Happy Pear are hardly going to stump up £4 billion to buy United just so people's consciences are clear.

Best stop using iPhones lads

It's a human rights violation you are buying into

LiamoSail

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I said before,dig deep enough and there's links to dodgy regimes everywhere.
Will you stop eating Irish beef because it's now being exported to China?

You’re trying to trivialize the crimes of the Saudi regime, presumably because they’re linked to your club. People like you are exactly why people like them want to buy football clubs

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And that is what they will bank on.
And that when anyone mentions the genocide they commit that United fans will rally to their defence cause who gives "*** what the Saudi's do as long as they pump money into the Utd the football club".

I wont defend them.

I just dont think me supporting United will make any difference.

And I think theres a difference. I can't imagine any United fans will suddenly start advocating for beheading and such just cause they buy United

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

Best stop using iPhones lads

It's a human rights violation you are buying into

So there is no line, in your world, where ownership of United would make you even pause for thought?

Apple do not behead people. Apple do not have critics bruttally murdered. Apple do not commit genocide.

The Saudi government do.

adox

brinty wrote: »

Great album, Morrissey and Johnny Marr are big United supporters too I believe

Off topic: if thre is one individual and one band I cant stand on this planet its Morrissey and The Smiths.

Youve gone down in my estimation man!

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

I wont defend them.

I just dont think me supporting United will make any difference.

And I think theres a difference. I can't imagine any United fans will suddenly start advocating for beheading and such just cause they buy United

Look at the way Abu Dhabi are defended from criticism by a vocal cohort of City fans. Claims of bias and misinfirmation. Agendas and bitterness. Do you think United will be any different?

Maybe YOU won't defend them, but can you celebrate their success without doing so?

"Like whatever about Yemen, we just won the League boys! U N I T E D!"

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Look at the way Abu Dhabi are defended from criticism by a vocal cohort of City fans. Claims of bias and misinfirmation. Agendas and bitterness. Do you think United will be any different?

Maybe YOU won't defend them, but can you celebrate their success without doing so?

"Like whatever about Yemen, we just won the League boys! U N I T E D!"

I can see how much you are against them buying United, but you are also very vocal about the Glazers/Woodward. Considering you are for changes to the hierarchy of the club, who do you think is going to be able to afford such a figure?

Cookiemunster

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So there is no line, in your world, where ownership of United would make you even pause for thought?

Apple do not behead people. Apple do not have critics bruttally murdered. Apple do not commit genocide.

The Saudi government do.

Apples don't do those thing, but their products a built by what amounts to slave labour in a country with a human rights record just as bad a Saudi Arabias that does do those things. Have you not heard about what's happening to the Uyghur population lately? Or the disappearance of political opponents of President Xi?

Saudi is a horrible regime, but lets not pretend that there aren't others in the world who we happily deal with regularly.

Mitch Connor

Trigger wrote: »

I can see how much you are against them buying United, but you are also very vocal about the Glazers/Woodward. Considering you are for changes to the hierarchy of the club, who do you think is going to be able to afford such a figure?

My best case scenario is actually that the Glazers start to care, and ensure proper structures are put in place to achieve success, inclusive of employing best in class talents in each of the roles needed. So Woodward stays the F away from football decisions, Ole is replaced with a manager who has proven ability and we get in DoF or similar to ensure a long term vision of the club.

The reality is that it is only the likes of Saudi that could (a) afford and (b) be able to justify the cost of United, and I don't think I could stomach it.

Winning a PL under Saudi ownership isn't worth how and why it would be funded.

Amazon or Apple are another possibility, especially if the TV deal is broken up and package steaming becomes a thing. I could see them getting involved in PL Clubs, unless the PL struture package sales to exclude club owners.

Mitch Connor

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Apples don't do those thing, but their products a built by what amounts to slave labour in a country with a human rights record just as bad a Saudi Arabias that does do those things. Have you not heard about what's happening to the Uyghur population lately? Or the disappearance of political opponents of President Xi?

Saudi is a horrible regime, but lets not pretend that there aren't others in the world who we happily deal with regularly.

So to you there is no line? its a black and white accept or reject it all?

I wouldn't want the Chinese goverment buying us either, for the same reasons.

Cookiemunster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Apples don't do those thing, but their products a built by what amounts to slave labour in a country with a human rights record just as bad a Saudi Arabias that does do those things. Have you not heard about what's happening to the Uyghur population lately? Or the disappearance of political opponents of President Xi?

Saudi is a horrible regime, but lets not pretend that there aren't others in the world who we happily deal with regularly.

If Apple purchased Utd though it would be fine
Some irony in that

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So to you there is no line? its a black and white accept or reject it all?

I wouldn't want the Chinese goverment buying us either, for the same reasons.

So where do you draw the line, Mitch?

Whats the point where you go "All these bad things are grand, but all these bad things are not?" And who gets to decide that point? Who is the arbiter of that decision?

On a personal decision, the reality is if I drew a line, I'd have to dump most of my clothes, throw the computer and most technology out the window, stop eating 90% of foods. Cause I do feel if you "draw a line", inevitably there'll be someone with a line in a different place who will just call you a hypocrite...

MeMen2_MoRi_

Is there a phone/computer/TV that has zero "made in china" in it? Unless you want to go back to the stone age there little to no choice.
There is some choices to be made with other things and people are free to make them.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

So where do you draw the line, Mitch?

Whats the point where you go "All these bad things are grand, but all these bad things are not?" And who gets to decide that point? Who is the arbiter of that decision?

On a personal decision, the reality is if I drew a line, I'd have to dump most of my clothes, throw the computer and most technology out the window, stop eating 90% of foods. Cause I do feel if you "draw a line", inevitably there'll be someone with a line in a different place who will just call you a hypocrite...

Everyone draws their own line. Everyone is their own arbiter of their own decision.

I draw the line at the owners of the club I support being directly responsible, DIRECTLY, for murder and genocide. Or at least I hope I do. I certainly feel like I should.

MeMen2_MoRi_

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Is there a phone/computer/TV that has zero "made in china" in it? Unless you want to go back to the stone age there little to no choice.
There is some choices to be made with other things and people are free to make them.

We have already been here on this and I agree, but just because some folks chose to be ok with a Saudi purchase doesn't mean they are supporters of genocide.

They simply support a football club. And that's simply drawing a line.

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

We have already been here on this and I agree, but just because some folks chose to be ok with a Saudi purchase doesn't mean they are supporters of genocide.

They simply support a football club. And that's simply drawing a line.

I don't understand how you can be ok with a Saudi purchase without being ok with the how and why of it too.

Cantona's Collars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't understand how you can be ok with a Saudi purchase without being ok with the how and why of it too.

As I said before, when I'm on the Stretford End cheering on United,the last thing on my mind is what happens in a foreign country.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't understand how you can be ok with a Saudi purchase without being ok with the how and why of it too.

This is for you to figure out.
I'm not passing judgement on your reasons for not following Utd if they did purchase the club.

MeMen2_MoRi_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have already been here on this and I agree, but just because some folks chose to be ok with a Saudi purchase doesn't mean they are supporters of genocide.

They simply support a football club. And that's simply drawing a line.

I think the user brinty put it best yesterday, that it's a no win argument.. case in point people bringing up the use of phones as supporting a regime.. typing this from a Chinese phone ha.
Regretted even mentioning what my decision would be yesterday cause it's so touchy, like I said also I'm not holding or looking to hold the high ground with this it's a sh!t show of a disagreement to get into. Make your decision and go with it.

Trigger

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Make your decision and go with it.

This, I've come to terms with it, I think with the value of the club they are the only way of getting rid of the Glazers so....