Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

Liam O

It's really getting bad if we're expecting Lingard to win aerial duels.

The fact that he has such a high pass completion rate shows the problem with how the team is set up. He gets the ball and looks for the easy pass. This would be fine if it was to get it back and play a few quick balls to pull opposition out of position. The problem is that it goes wide from Lingard, back to McT or Fred, back across to the other wing, back to the other CM and hoofed up to the striker. Lingard is getting the criticism for a broken system. He's played awfully but we know he can do better. It's all so static.

Also I don't think he's played that much?

S.M.B.

Liam O wrote: »

It's really getting bad if we're expecting Lingard to win aerial duels.

The fact that he has such a high pass completion rate shows the problem with how the team is set up. He gets the ball and looks for the easy pass. This would be fine if it was to get it back and play a few quick balls to pull opposition out of position. The problem is that it goes wide from Lingard, back to McT or Fred, back across to the other wing, back to the other CM and hoofed up to the striker. Lingard is getting the criticism for a broken system. He's played awfully but we know he can do better. It's all so static.

Also I don't think he's played that much?

I think the Lingard position and not Lingard the player is uniteds biggest issue this season. Whether it's Lingard, Mata, Andreas or Mata. Whoever is playing in that position between the lines is having very little influence in our games, certainly when it comes to creating our getting on the end of big chances.

Strumms

S.M.B. wrote: »

I think the Lingard position and not Lingard the player is uniteds biggest issue this season. Whether it's Lingard, Mata, Andreas or Mata. Whoever is playing in that position between the lines is having very little influence in our games, certainly when it comes to creating our getting on the end of big chances.

it’s not the system but the lack of players with the ability to excel there.

Lingard will run and run, try and try but doesn’t posses the quality or intelligence to contribute.

Mata has the football brain but never really given the opportunity often, I’d give him a shot behind Martial.

Andreas, still a LOT to prove.

PARlance

Liam O wrote: »

Also I don't think he's played that much?

It's pretty obvious he's not in Ole's starting 11, the only time he enters the equation is through injuries or when we play a team where we expect little possession. And at the moment, I think he's a decent shout against those teams.

He's not good enough but I wouldn't be worrying about him. We'll be looking to strengthen that position and he'll be further down the list or gone.

S.M.B.

MEN seem to think Mata's performance last night mean that he's the solution to Ole's playmaker problem but I'm not so sure about that.

xtal191

S.M.B. wrote: »

MEN seem to think Mata's performance last night mean that he's the solution to Ole's playmaker problem but I'm not so sure about that.

He'll never get that kinda time and space against Premier League teams, he's finished unfortunately. Last night was very enjoyable but Partizan were awful

dmigsy

Strumms wrote: »

it’s not the system but the lack of players with the ability to excel there.

Lingard will run and run, try and try but doesn’t posses the quality or intelligence to contribute.

Mata has the football brain but never really given the opportunity often, I’d give him a shot behind Martial.

Andreas, still a LOT to prove.

Agree, at least Mata has the ability to pick a pass. Yes, he is a bit slower now but in a choice between Lingard / Pereira / Mata in a #10 position, I'd go for Mata every time.

Ability and eye for a pass is what the Utd is missing most in the middle, not pressing or running. No point in pressing or running if you can't hurt the opposition when you get it back.

Drumpot

xtal191 wrote: »

He'll never get that kinda time and space against Premier League teams, he's finished unfortunately. Last night was very enjoyable but Partizan were awful

I don’t understand these sort of statements about players being finished, Particularly players like Mata that never had any pace to begin with. I don’t honestly know if he’s finished but I know I see that a lot about players who do fine at their previous clubs and don’t do too bad when they move on from united. How can any player be reasonably judged based on their united career? The club is a career killer for everybody. United is not the club to assess anybody.

I think, putting Ole’s credentials aside for a moment, that Ole is trying to focus on club culture more then anything. Getting and retaining the right players (character and hard work) for this culture shift. People can complain about players but sanchez, Lukaku, matic and Pogba didn’t join united to struggle around 6th spot and maybe go on a cup run. To be fair these players have ambitions and this club is a disaster at helping them match these ambitions.

So we are now signing players who will see united as a step up (not sideways or down) and who will still put in a shift. I think quite often we take a united centric view on players that kind of makes players the problem , not the club. And the players possibly react to a degree. Why should any player play their heart out for a club where the issues are so deep rooted but fans are so quick to turn on managers and players?

Of course Oles biggest problem will continue to be the glazers/Woodward. while I never thought Ole should get the job, Frank Lampard is showing how an unproven manager can do well at a club that has a system that works better then uniteds. So in many regards it’s unfair of us all to right off Ole if he does fail at United. He’s trying to fix the mess while working within a completely useless football structure that’s poisoned from the top. If fans started to properly focus on the owners at every match and online it might actually make a difference but instead we turn on players and managers who aren’t the big problem.

Strumms

dmigsy wrote: »

Agree, at least Mata has the ability to pick a pass. Yes, he is a bit slower now but in a choice between Lingard / Pereira / Mata in a #10 position, I'd go for Mata every time.

Ability and eye for a pass is what the Utd is missing most in the middle, not pressing or running. No point in pressing or running if you can't hurt the opposition when you get it back.

Totally, it’s like knowing the winning lotto numbers before the draw but if you don’t have arms you can’t fûcking fill out the docket.

That’s what watching this United team is like, we press hard, we win the ball back then go ‘ ummmmmm ‘. We’ve improved a bit but need to do more... though I get the impression further improvements are only going to come with further additions of quality.

damowill

I'd prefer to see mata in there all day along ahead of Pereira. Andreas just isnt up to this standard and its pointless flogging a dead horse week in week out.

damowill

Rashford 8
Martial 5
Greenwood 3
James 3
McTominay 2

Bit of a worry we have had only 5 goal scorers so far!. Imperative Rashford & Martial stay fit

Minime2.5

Strumms wrote: »

it’s not the system but the lack of players with the ability to excel there.

Lingard will run and run, try and try but doesn’t posses the quality or intelligence to contribute.

Mata has the football brain but never really given the opportunity often, I’d give him a shot behind Martial.

Andreas, still a LOT to prove.

Couldn't pogba play there when he's back

Strumms

damowill wrote: »

Rashford 8
Martial 5
Greenwood 3
James 3
McTominay 2

Bit of a worry we have had only 5 goal scorers so far!. Imperative Rashford & Martial stay fit

That’s the seriously worrying part, if one or both, imagine Rashford and Martial injured... that’s like a nightmare on steroids. Even if it’s only a loan deal for someone in January we have to add a striker.

Strumms

Minime2.5 wrote: »

Couldn't pogba play there when he's back

Again it would be fitting a square peg in a round hole a bit, we need to get away from plastering over problems and start addressing them...

bucketybuck

Lets ignore the last five years and have a "maybe Mata is the answer" debate.

Liam O

The solution is to have a player at the base of a 3 and have the 2 push up to support the wide players. Not having a No. 10 but 2 advanced CMs. You're not going to get a high level offensive output from AWB and Young/Williams/Shaw so more has to come through the middle. Having one player at no. 10 who's constantly bypassed isn't the solution.

damowill

bucketybuck wrote: »

Lets ignore the last five years and have a "maybe Mata is the answer" debate.

Mata hasnt had a successful period at United but he has played to a PL standard. Pereira hasnt put together 10 good minutes of football this season. He is way out of his depth. At least we know what we'll get with Mata and he'll try play football...

Mitch Connor

my problem with all our options in that 10 spot is that they are all freaking cowards on the ball. 95% of the time they get the ball fed into them from midfield into the final third they have their back to goal and pop the ball off to the side or back.

They aren't positioning themselves on the half turn, they don't have a picture of what the forwards or the defenders are doing, they don't give themselves the chance to play a dangerous ball into a run.

I'm fed up seeing an attacking run being made and the creative position in the side just dumping the ball off.

EDIT: It was something I noticed with Lingard a while back. Can't remember the game exactly but he was picking up really good positions in space in the 10 spot. Pogba played 3 or 4 balls in to him and he didn't even control two of them - Lingard then wasn't seen in the 10 spot for ages. Was going wide, dropping deep and just playing simple balls to players behind the ball. He has/had zero confidence in himself and retreated into safe spaces where he couldn't really screw up or be under pressure.

Strumms

Pereira has showed nothing to indicate that he can be trusted to perform game after game, consistently to a high level, influencing and helping win games.

There are people who it seems would fûcking see us relegated but as long as that happens with young home grown players everything is fine and dandy, as it should be.

Strumms

Mitch Connor wrote: »

my problem with all our options in that 10 spot is that they are all freaking cowards on the ball. 95% of the time they get the ball fed into them from midfield into the final third they have their back to goal and pop the ball off to the side or back.

They aren't positioning themselves on the half turn, they don't have a picture of what the forwards or the defenders are doing, they don't give themselves the chance to play a dangerous ball into a run.

I'm fed up seeing an attacking run being made and the creative position in the side just dumping the ball off.

Agreed 100%. I’ve been saying the same, here and elsewhere. The cowardly aspect to our play isn’t just related to the ‘10’ though. Too often attacking players make good runs but the player with the ball seems to think the pass is too risky, look sidewards, look back, pass sideways AND back. Our attacking ability or inability just doesn’t strike fear into the opposition. You are used to players in red in that final third striking fear into every defense on the planet. Now they don’t. It’s difficult to watch. Things ARE improving, slowly but I think a few deals need to be done to improve the side before we can be considered challengers again, still three or four players short.

Mitch Connor

Strumms wrote: »

Agreed 100%. I’ve been saying the same, here and elsewhere. The cowardly aspect to our play isn’t just related to the ‘10’ though. Too often attacking players make good runs but the player with the ball seems to think the pass is too risky, look sidewards, look back, pass sideways AND back. Our attacking ability or inability just doesn’t strike fear into the opposition. You are used to players in red in that final third striking fear into every defense on the planet. Now they don’t. It’s difficult to watch. Things ARE improving, slowly but I think a few deals need to be done to improve the side before we can be considered challengers again, still three or four players short.

Agreed, I suppose the number 10 spot gets my ire because it is the position on the pitch that we absolutely need some responsibility and bravery from, more so than other positions.

S.M.B.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

my problem with all our options in that 10 spot is that they are all freaking cowards on the ball. 95% of the time they get the ball fed into them from midfield into the final third they have their back to goal and pop the ball off to the side or back.

They aren't positioning themselves on the half turn, they don't have a picture of what the forwards or the defenders are doing, they don't give themselves the chance to play a dangerous ball into a run.

I'm fed up seeing an attacking run being made and the creative position in the side just dumping the ball off.

EDIT: It was something I noticed with Lingard a while back. Can't remember the game exactly but he was picking up really good positions in space in the 10 spot. Pogba played 3 or 4 balls in to him and he didn't even control two of them - Lingard then wasn't seen in the 10 spot for ages. Was going wide, dropping deep and just playing simple balls to players behind the ball. He has/had zero confidence in himself and retreated into safe spaces where he couldn't really screw up or be under pressure.

He managed to do it against Wolves and we scored as a result. Won't go down in his official stats for the season but he played a massive part in Martials goal that evening.

He hasn't done it enough though.

Mantis Toboggan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Agreed, I suppose the number 10 spot gets my ire because it is the position on the pitch that we absolutely need some responsibility and bravery from, more so than other positions.

Never had a #10 in Fergie years and it didn't hinder us, I'd argue we don't need one at all it's never worked for us.

S.M.B.

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Never had a #10 in Fergie years and it didn't hinder us, I'd argue we don't need one at all it's never worked for us.

It's fine if you have the means to create enough chances elsewhere. It's not fine when you are playing with a number 10 week in / week out (apart from the rare occasion we play 3 at the back) and that player is having little impact on the game.

Liam O

S.M.B. wrote: »

He managed to do it against Wolves and we scored as a result. Won't go down in his official stats for the season but he played a massive part in Martials goal that evening.

He hasn't done it enough though.

There were a few that he had involvement in early on in the season too. Should be asking why a player who used to attempt mazy runs from deep midfield that were very good now suddenly doesn't do it at all? Must be because he's just shíte right?

Mitch Connor

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Never had a #10 in Fergie years and it didn't hinder us, I'd argue we don't need one at all it's never worked for us.

erm... so what? The current manager is playing one from Mata, Lingard or Pereira in that role quite a bit. So we need someone better in that role. Doesn't matter if Fergie didn't have it (Cantona dropped into that role, Sheringham dropped into that role, Scholes started in that role, Rooney dropped into that role)

Mitch Connor

Liam O wrote: »

There were a few that he had involvement in early on in the season too. Should be asking why a player who used to attempt mazy runs from deep midfield that were very good now suddenly doesn't do it at all? Must be because he's just shíte right?

IMO its confidence.

Lingard isn't that good but when he is at his very best he is a good ball carrier and an intelligent footballer (positionally and intent). But when he is not at his best his flaws get more pronounced - and this effects his output and his confidence. when his confidence drops he doesn't try to take charge.

Liam O

Mitch Connor wrote: »

IMO its confidence.

Lingard isn't that good but when he is at his very best he is a good ball carrier and an intelligent footballer (positionally and intent). But when he is not at his best his flaws get more pronounced - and this effects his output and his confidence. when his confidence drops he doesn't try to take charge.

I'd agree with this. I think it's both the system and himself though that needs to improve but I think that they would come hand in hand. Not saying he's going to be good enough to be a starter but as a backup/big game option I think the squad could do with him getting back to what he was a couple of years ago.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1192809759914840064

Mantis Toboggan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

erm... so what? The current manager is playing one from Mata, Lingard or Pereira in that role quite a bit. So we need someone better in that role. Doesn't matter if Fergie didn't have it (Cantona dropped into that role, Sheringham dropped into that role, Scholes started in that role, Rooney dropped into that role)

We don't have anyone in the squad capable of being effective consistently from that position so I'm not sure why Ole is persisting with it.

BDI

xtal191 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/1192809759914840064

Maybe the accountant told him he couldn’t have more money

Mitch Connor

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

We don't have anyone in the squad capable of being effective consistently from that position so I'm not sure why Ole is persisting with it.

Trying to make the best of a badly balanced squad.

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Trying to make the best of a badly balanced squad.

What is the difference in balance/shape between January 2019 and the last few months?

I would dearly love to know the deeper reasons for the marked difference in performances between that honeymoon period and everything since. For a good 10 games those same players did perform well and did play differently, we all saw it, so what changed and what stopped? Just calling that a honeymoon period isn't enough and is far too simplistic.

Mantis Toboggan

bucketybuck wrote: »

What is the difference in balance/shape between January 2019 and the last few months?

I would dearly love to know the deeper reasons for the marked difference in performances between that honeymoon period and everything since. For a good 10 games those same players did perform well and did play differently, we all saw it, so what changed and what stopped? Just calling that a honeymoon period isn't enough and is far too simplistic.

The big thing for me is workrate. We were like a team possessed without the ball. We allowed our forward players to stay forward and not worry about defending. Then when we won the ball we have plenty options to go forward quickly. Was a great run while it lasted.

brinty

Mitch Connor wrote:

Trying to make the best of a badly balanced squad.

And who's fault is it that it's badly balanced? He's had two windows and is already claiming he'll not spend in the upcoming window.

Let's be honest he's a yes man and isn't in charge in the slightest.

This isn't a bad man Jose or boring van gaal issue, Ole needs to open his gob and be honest and accept this portion of the blame.

I'd honestly welcome the Saudi takeover as a new brush might see clean and get us back to somewhere closer to a proper football club with structures, that challenges for the best players and trophies.

bucketybuck

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The big thing for me is workmate. We were like a team possessed without the ball. We allowed our forward players to stay forward and not worry about defending. Then when we won the ball we have plenty options to go forward quickly. Was a great run while it lasted.

So why did the workrate drop off so markedly? Why is it still getting worse instead of better? I assume the "fitness" bull**** has been shown up for the spoof it always was at this stage.

PaddyCar

BDI wrote: »

Maybe the accountant told him he couldn’t have more money

PSG all about the football...

Strumms

PaddyCar wrote: »

PSG all about the football...

They’ve won six of the last seven league championships and four of the last five French cups in fairness. More about the football then most.

Cantona's Collars

Manchester United will bid £42m for Tottenham and Denmark midfielder Christian Eriksen, 27, in January. (El Desmarque - via Express)

adox

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Manchester United will bid £42m for Tottenham and Denmark midfielder Christian Eriksen, 27, in January. (El Desmarque - via Express)

Another wrong move. Hopefully not true.

Lord TSC

adox wrote: »

Another wrong move. Hopefully not true.

You reckon?

I think he'd drastically improve our creativity issues at the #10 spot, no?

Drumpot

Lord TSC wrote: »

You reckon?

I think he'd drastically improve our creativity issues at the #10 spot, no?

Agreed.

Pogba Is as good as gone, I’d be ok with the club signing Ericsson once somebody other then an accountant vets the player to try to make sure he’s not sanchez 2. That said , any player joining united right now shouldn’t be under any illusions that they will be challanging for any big honors anytime soon. When the likes of sanchez joined united were on an upward trend and it would of been reasonable for players to be expecting good things on field. Anybody joining united surely can’t be stupid enough to think they’ve a good chance of winning any trophies anytime soon.

gimli2112

It's a bit of a gamble considering his form over the last 18 months or so. It's rare enough for players to come out of that kind of slump. I did think Sanchez was a good move for you and had him in my FF team in 2018, so my judgement is suspect.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

You reckon?

I think he'd drastically improve our creativity issues at the #10 spot, no?

I'd be weary, but that's down to our transfer history as much as anything else.

Would he be another mata? Or Sanchez? A player who had been great but is now going to be on a downward trend?

It would lock us into a number 10 formation as you wouldn't play him cm or rwf. Assuming Pogba isn't being sold in Jan and would be played, do we run into a problem of accommodating two players without huge pressing or defensive contribution?

There would be questions.

Also, while he isn't young, in football terms, it's also arguable that if we are looking to move forward with the likes of rashford, martial, James, Greenwood, that we need some players in eriksens age range to compliment them.

But.... While eriksen has experience, has he ever really shown himself as a player to boss a match or the big game. Does he have the bravery and leadership qualities we lack? While talented is he a player who steps up and takes control when a game is against you?

Is he a player that needs his team to provide him the platform for his talents to shine?

pjohnson

Seems controversial but I think Mata generally got fûcked here due to managers repeatedly deciding he was best stuck on the right side. Mata has been, and still is the best #10 in the squad for years. Hes just barely seen any gametime in that position.

I suppose you could also say somewhat validly that he also WAS our best RW while at the club (even if it wasted him) but thats a whole other set of problems.

Mitch Connor

pjohnson wrote: »

Seems controversial but I think Mata generally got fûcked here due to managers repeatedly deciding he was best stuck on the right side. Mata has been, and still is the best #10 in the squad for years. Hes just barely seen any gametime in that position.

I suppose you could also say somewhat validly that he also WAS our best RW while at the club (even if it wasted him) but thats a whole other set of problems.

Mata has never shown himself to be undroppable in that role for us. H

Weepsie

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mata has never shown himself to be undroppable in that role for us. H

He's played a handful of games there's with some fairly ordinary players who don't make any sort of decent movement .

Lots of great no 10s would struggle in the team the last few years because the footballing intelligence of so many players is poor. All the skill, but not the intelligence


He's also still scored the most direct free kicks in the last 4-5 years in the league, despite regularly watching Rashford and Young shank them high and wide

adox

Lord TSC wrote: »

You reckon?

I think he'd drastically improve our creativity issues at the #10 spot, no?

His form has fell off a cliff in the last 12 months or so, even before he was agitating for a move.

He’s the sort of player that I think we don’t need to add and would end up being another fairly anonymous figure, a bit like Mata.

We certainly need some creativity and some firepower but I think we would definitely be backing the wrong horse with him.

We have enough players in the team already who can let the game pass them by. I don’t want to spend big money on another one, even if he will have moments of brilliance.

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mata has never shown himself to be undroppable in that role for us. H

Agreed. Mata has had five odd seasons at the club and has never produced consistently for us. His lack of pace and physical presence just can’t be overlooked. Sure he is a skillful player but with those two huge deficiencies in his game he needs to be top tier in his passing and creativity and influence on a game and he just isn’t.

I know there is a lot of love for him here but he would be one of the first I’d have out the door in the rebuilding process.(presuming he is replaced).

Thing is, our squad is so threadbare that he is probably needed even though he isn’t really the type of player that suits out style of play.

Ideally I’d like to see additions made to the squad(first team signings) with no outgoings for the time being, with those hovering around the first team becoming squad players. We need the squad filled back out to a reasonable size before moving players on imo.

I’ve no confidence any of this will happen with the current regime. If you step back and take a good sobering look at the squad management this year it has been shameful and a real statement of no intent.

Rayne Wooney

I’m a big fan of Eriksen but if he wants out of Spurs I don’t see why United would be any different.

If he is looking for a lucrative contract to finish out his career I’d hope the club have learned by now that it is not a good idea.

His form over the last 12 months has been poor, I’d offer him a standard contract with a big increase if he actually performed, but I can’t see him being open to such a deal especially with Rashford and Martial at the club when he is more valuable than both on the field.