Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

And thats just the results. Calling our actual performances enjoyable and better than the last 2 years requires a large amount of cognitive dissonance.

It's not cognitive dissonance. I have legitimately enjoyed some of our performances this season more than than anything under Mourinho. That is a real opinion, and although it may not mesh with yours, it is not cognitive dissonance. In fact, calling such a thing cognitive dissonance makes no sense in this context. I think you mean something else, probably delusion, but stick to terms that you fully understand.

S.M.B.

S.M.B. wrote: »

That is clearly a bad run of results (and performances), no denying that but I don't see how it followed on from a very positive performance as most were very disappointed with how we played against both Leicester and Astana.

I guess you could argue that United have gotten some positive results (Chelsea & Leicester) but then gone on a poor run a few times this season but I still think it's harsh to say we've seen performances like Sunday that are always followed by a run of shocking results and this time will be no different.

I've enjoyed the occasional performances but they have been minimal this season.
I'm not a big string of misery just cautious and honestly nothing has changed for me long term.
I don't want Ole as Man Utd manager and I've given my reasons why here many times on this thread.
Me repeating it over and over doesn't make for good discussion.

But I will still try take some joy out some of the games where we have finally scored more than 2 goals especially.
There is some promise in certain individuals too.
Specifically this season Dan James for me. He's been an excellent buy.

Liam O

James is one who's definitely impressed at times but there is just something that makes me apprehensive about him. He doesn't really get involved enough in an attacking sense and I think after starting well against Bournemouth and beating Rico a couple of times he just retreated into a shell. I think AWB could do more to help him but a hug the line winger may not be what's needed on the right given the setup of the team.

He works very hard and scored some decent ones early in the season though. He's a very likeable character too and obviously it's ok to get excited by a new young player. It's just interesting the different standard he's held to compared to Rashford for instance given he's actually older.

As I said he's impressed in the good games for the team so if he can build on that happy days, he (and a bunch of others obviously) need to do more on the off days though.

Rayne Wooney

S.M.B. wrote: »

That's a run of good results followed by a single shocking result which is very different to what I quoted.

We’ve lost or drawn 2/3rds of our league games ffs

Lord TSC

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We’ve lost or drawn 2/3rds of our league games ffs

16 points in 12 games.

Means we are on track for round 50 points, which is a horrific take for a “top” club.

The Nal

Lord TSC wrote: »

16 points in 12 games.

Means we are on track for round 50 points, which is a horrific take for a “top” club.

11th or 12th going by last season. Tottenham and City 2 of the next 4 games though.

paulbok

Lord TSC wrote: »

16 points in 12 games.

Means we are on track for round 50 points, which is a horrific take for a “top” club.

So we would be looking over our shoulder at the bottom three until around March.
Which leaves us one or two key long term injuries from a serious situation.

Rebuild or no rebuild, that/ this is not acceptable for one of the biggest teams in the world.

How the board can't see that this will massively affect the one thing they care about, cash, is beyond me.
We all have heard of the sponsorship drops if the club fails to make the CL a second year.
It's already happened that United are not on as many games on tv, or at least not top billing.
With 'that lots' stock on the rise, especially if they win the league, there will be a lot of fair weather supporters, in Asia in particular, jumping ship.
And Woodie thinks he can get a bigger sponsorship deal that the current Chevrolet one in the current climate?

Trying to keep the club ticking over in the top 4 with the odd cup win is just not possible, at least not in the manner we've been going about it. There are just too many teams ahead or level with us in terms of spending and drawing powers. Even the 'smaller' teams now have the resources to put up a decent fight to all but the top team or two.

"Aim For The Stars, If You Fail, You'll Land On The Moon."
That's what the club need to be working towards, winning the title so if they fail they end up second or third.
Only way in my eyes to ensure top 4 anymore. Look how difficult it has been for everyone except City and that lot to consistently finish in the top 4 the last few seasons.

Lord TSC

Apparently a load of the players who aren't on international duty organised their own training camp in Dubai. Here's a picture of them at Salt Bae.

Your Airbag

I see that a few squad members have organised their own training session in Dubai even though Ole gave them some time off over the international break.


Also Chong looks to have turned down a contract renewal.

Mitch Connor

Where did you see that? ;-P

Wouldn't be bothered about Chong to be honest. Never been impressed with him. I've a poor track record with judging a youth player though. Wilson, Januzaj, Keane, Tunnicliffe, James, TFM.

I just think Chong stuggles, hugely, with both the pace and physicallity of first team football.

Jurgen The German

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Where did you see that? ;-P

Wouldn't be bothered about Chong to be honest. Never been impressed with him. I've a poor track record with judging a youth player though. Wilson, Januzaj, Keane, Tunnicliffe, James, TFM.

I just think Chong stuggles, hugely, with both the pace and physicallity of first team football.

Hes still only a kid though and very slight build wise, a couple of years and a bit more mass would make a big difference.

Your Airbag

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Where did you see that? ;-P

Wouldn't be bothered about Chong to be honest. Never been impressed with him. I've a poor track record with judging a youth player though. Wilson, Januzaj, Keane, Tunnicliffe, James, TFM.

I just think Chong stuggles, hugely, with both the pace and physicallity of first team football.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1194185565387853825?s=19


Yeah Chong would not be much of a loss, he looks great in the youths but is not good enough for senior level and is a very predictable player. He's in a weird limbo between both stages right now.

Liam O

The team spirit has looked good despite the issues on the pitch. If they can harness that and start playing for each other who knows? Might even see Martial break a sweat.

Whatsisname

Liam O wrote: »

The team spirit has looked good despite the issues on the pitch. If they can harness that and start playing for each other who knows? Might even see Martial break a sweat.

5 goals and 3 assists in 10 games is pretty decent for someone who "doesn't break a sweat".

beno619

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To the positive, I watched the full highlights last night.
Small argument to be made the Dan James has been one of the best summer signings in the league this year so far.

Was excellent again yesterday, should have had an assist or two but for poor finishing. Lots of great crosses and cross field pings.

Mitch Connor

beno619 wrote: »

Was excellent again yesterday, should have had an assist or two but for poor finishing. Lots of great crosses and cross field pings.

That Rashford miss... effing hell. You make it difficult for me to defend you Rash, sometimes you really do!

beno619

Whatsisname wrote: »

5 goals and 3 assists in 10 games is pretty decent for someone who "doesn't break a sweat".

Martial was great when he got involved but yeah he still barely made a sprint off the ball.

If he bangs in 30+ goals this season he'll probably get a pass for the lazyness.

Whatsisname

beno619 wrote: »

Martial was great when he got involved but yeah he still barely made a sprint off the ball.

If he bangs in 30+ goals this season he'll probably get a pass for the lazyness.

I don't think he's being asked to tbh. Has he ever been someone who runs in behind? his hold up play has come on tonnes and he's better at coming to feet I think. He seems to be playing as almost a false 9, similar to how Firmino plays, to allow James and Rashford to run in behind.

Liam O

Whatsisname wrote: »

I don't think he's being asked to tbh. Has he ever been someone who runs in behind? his hold up play has come on tonnes and he's better at coming to feet I think. He seems to be playing as almost a false 9, similar to how Firmino plays, to allow James and Rashford to run in behind.

Right, I'll absolutely not have someone say that Martial plays like Firmino. I mean I don't think he's a bad player but he clearly has the wool over people's eyes! Firmino is the ultimate pressing and selfless player. Martial might be the most anti Firmino player there's ever been ffs.

S.M.B.

Probably worth adding the caveat of "when United have the ball".

Mitch Connor

Liam O wrote: »

Right, I'll absolutely not have someone say that Martial plays like Firmino. I mean I don't think he's a bad player but he clearly has the wool over people's eyes! Firmino is the ultimate pressing and selfless player. Martial might be the most anti Firmino player there's ever been ffs.

...
Balotelli.

brinty

Lord TSC wrote:

Apparently a load of the players who aren't on international duty organised their own training camp in Dubai. Here's a picture of them at Salt Bae.

Jesus is Mata cup tied for international duty too...

Whatsisname

Liam O wrote: »

Right, I'll absolutely not have someone say that Martial plays like Firmino. I mean I don't think he's a bad player but he clearly has the wool over people's eyes! Firmino is the ultimate pressing and selfless player. Martial might be the most anti Firmino player there's ever been ffs.

I didn’t say he was like Firmino in that aspect, I said in the aspect that he drops deeper which creates space for James and Rashford. It was literally the next sentence in my post.

beno619

Whatsisname wrote: »

I don't think he's being asked to tbh. Has he ever been someone who runs in behind? his hold up play has come on tonnes and he's better at coming to feet I think. He seems to be playing as almost a false 9, similar to how Firmino plays, to allow James and Rashford to run in behind.

From everything we've been told Olé wants his front 3 pressing.

I'm as big a fan as any of Martial but lets not pretend his attitude/work ethic has ever been anything other than questionable.

Again he was great on the ball yesterday. Examples of good hold up play have been there since his first season we just didn't see it as much since he became a left winger.

Liam O

beno619 wrote: »

From everything we've been told Olé wants his front 3 pressing.

I'm as big a fan as any of Martial but lets not pretend his attitude/work ethic has ever been anything other than questionable.

Again he was great on the ball yesterday. Examples of good hold up play have been there since his first season we just didn't see it as much since he became a left winger.

This. I remember saying in his first season he'd make a good second striker. A kind of less technical but more penetrative No.10 type player. The position tends not to have the most responsibility for pressing too. Maybe that's why placing a Lingard type there with him was the thought at the start of the season and may be an option going forward. I dread the thought of him and Pogba up there together though...

PARlance

beno619 wrote: »

From everything we've been told Olé wants his front 3 pressing.

I'm as big a fan as any of Martial but lets not pretend his attitude/work ethic has ever been anything other than questionable.

Again he was great on the ball yesterday. Examples of good hold up play have been there since his first season we just didn't see it as much since he became a left winger.

Personally I wouldn't want a 9 running around, using up energy pressing. And a lot of them aren't expected to do a whole pile in most systems.... they're asked/expected to be positionally aware/cut off passing lanes more so than running around.

Ole might be looking for him to press but he wouldn't be expecting a 9 to be tracking back as he would an 11, and the tracking back was always the worry with Martial.

Playing Martial central and Rashord wide left plays to both their strengths and limits their weaknesses.

Lord TSC

Juninho, sporting director of Olympique Lyonnais, talks about Memphis Depay on the club website: ‘Memphis is very happy in Lyon. Therefore we will talk about a contract extension at the end of the year. He deserves the captain’s armband as much as anybody else. Rudi Garcia will soon make a decision, that is up to him.’
Memphis’ current contract ends in June 2021 and OL doesn’t want him to leave; so far there are no concrete offers. ‘If other clubs come around for Memphis, Manchester United has the first option to buy him. That was part of the deal that was made in 2017.’

Liam O

Lord TSC wrote: »

Juninho, sporting director of Olympique Lyonnais, talks about Memphis Depay on the club website: ‘Memphis is very happy in Lyon. Therefore we will talk about a contract extension at the end of the year. He deserves the captain’s armband as much as anybody else. Rudi Garcia will soon make a decision, that is up to him.’
Memphis’ current contract ends in June 2021 and OL doesn’t want him to leave; so far there are no concrete offers. ‘If other clubs come around for Memphis, Manchester United has the first option to buy him. That was part of the deal that was made in 2017.’

Sounds like more of a gentleman's agreement than anything. Probably because you're not allowed buyback clauses in France as far as I know. If another team came in and offered 50m wouldn't that just be United able to match it though? Not much of a great clause. I'd wonder why he wasn't brought back over the summer when a player like him was needed if the clause was a greatly beneficial one tbh...

StringerBell

As far as I remember it was a buy back fee of 35 mil? Something like that?

Even if it was simply an option to match whatever bid is on the table for him that would be fine though realistically, he isn't coming back.

Strumms

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That Rashford miss... effing hell. You make it difficult for me to defend you Rash, sometimes you really do!

It’s that shît that just makes him so unreliable and frustrating, he is prone to missing too many fûcking pure sitters... bangs one in from 25 yards, a rocket, then can let the ball run over his foot a yard from goal or poke it wide with the goal gaping.

Matic the next to go in Jan

Seriously trigger if the club sell another senior player (PL winner too) without replacement

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

Matic the next to go in Jan

Seriously trigger if the club sell another senior player (PL winner too) without replacement

And then Ole will wheel out a disingenious arguement over people complaining that he is giving Garner a chance...

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

Matic the next to go in Jan

Seriously trigger if the club sell another senior player (PL winner too) without replacement

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And then Ole will wheel out a disingenious arguement over people complaining that he is giving Garner a chance...

Well the club is doing what it said it would do. . Selling off all ambitious experienced players is definitely taking a different direction.

To be fair , in United's current circumstances you cant expect players with real top level ambitions to remain at United at the moment. Its no coincidence that all three signings this summer were all from clubs that are smaller that wouldn't normally have higher ambitions then maybe Europa at a stretch. I would suggest that this is the way things will continue and as a cost cutting exercise it compensates our poor owners for lower income from CL and sponsorship..

Any player under 24 can afford a couple of years at United, but anybody over that age (DDG or Mata) probably wont get better deals anywhere else. Certainly with DDG we gave him (rightly) massive wages but I also think he has a legendary status opportunity that not many other players can attain. If he went to another top club he would be just another keeper, so he does have another reason to remain. I would like to think of that more in the Juventus (Buffon, Nedved etc) kind of mould where some big players remain to try and help the club back to the top.

I cant lie, I sort of want to see where this Ole Experiment goes. I actually wanted them to do this originally with Moyes and feel they have now decided to go back 7 years to do with Ole what they refused to do with a more experienced manager (which is funny in a horrible way for United fans). Its like theyve just spent the last few years throwing darts at a board and in the meantime wasting the financial superiority we always have over most clubs in the world! Thats why its so hard to trust Ole or Woodward, it doesn't feel like anything other then "well that didn't work so lets just try this" as opposed to it being a meaningful long term strategy.

Your Airbag

Deleted User wrote: »

Matic the next to go in Jan

Seriously trigger if the club sell another senior player (PL winner too) without replacement

Matics first 6 months for us were relatively good, besides that he's been a terrible signing. Slow, aging and turns like a ship in ice and generally poor mobility.

Why hang onto a bad player who's over the hill, especially now that Freds finding some form. He's a squad option at best but if we can get another MF player in January Matic should go, he's being paid to watch games atm.

Your Airbag

Drumpot wrote: »

Well the club is doing what it said it would do. . Selling off all ambitious experienced players is definitely taking a different direction.

A bit of a mis-representation but Ole did harp on about wanting a younger squad, and Matic doesn't fit that mold, plus he's been woeful for us.

No club would say we don't want "ambitious experienced players", can you at least try to temper you disdain with some level of reality

Drumpot

Your Airbag wrote: »

A bit of a mis-representation but Ole did harp on about wanting a younger squad, and Matic doesn't fit that mold, plus he's been woeful for us.

No club would say we don't want "ambitious experienced players", can you at least try to temper you disdain with some level of reality

I never said the club doesn't want ambitious players, I said I would not expect ambitious players over 24 would want to join this United project.

Your Airbag

Drumpot wrote: »

I never said the club doesn't want ambitious players, I said I would not expect ambitious players over 24 would want to join this United project.

Maguire is 26, he didn't seem to hesitate.

Drumpot

Your Airbag wrote: »

Maguire is 26, he didn't seem to hesitate.

Leicester to United is a step up or would be considered a step up most years . . I dont know know exactly what Maguire's ambitions are or what other options he had for definite but by moving to United he signaled an intention to play for a bigger club . . I already said that . . The issue appears to be that you misinterpreted what I said, not that I have misinterpreted the clubs plans . .

The Nal

Your Airbag wrote: »

Maguire is 26, he didn't seem to hesitate.

Thats because Utd payed 95 million euro for him. Id imagine hes still laughing when he gets home.

Fair play to his agent. And to Leicester. Who are better without him.

Bandana boy

Deleted User wrote: »

Matic the next to go in Jan

Seriously trigger if the club sell another senior player (PL winner too) without replacement

It all comes down to whether or not signing a player in January will be the difference between top 4 or not .

If you don't think you close that gap this year , then continue to clear out the non contributing dead wood and spend proper time scouting his replacement and ensuring you get that person in the summer.

Strumms

Bandana boy wrote: »

It all comes down to whether or not signing a player in January will be the difference between top 4 or not .

If you don't think you close that gap this year , then continue to clear out the non contributing dead wood and spend proper time scouting his replacement and ensuring you get that person in the summer.

We need to be aggressive in improving this team and improving our league position. We need to be aggressive on the pitch in our performances, aggressive in the transfer market. Enough about planning, enough about bringing through players for the future... that’s almost become a mantra and a priority, this talking about what we are ‘going to do’ to improve, no, fûcking do it already.. next season I want us with a squad that is going for the Premier League... let’s use the next two windows to say... “ok, to hell with everything, invest heavily, intelligently... fûck the cups, focus on the league..

adox

I do find it odd that some find it acceptable to weaken an already weal squad if the right players arent available.

I mean sell who you want I suppose but ffs replace them. Its like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If there isnt a suitable replacement then wait until there is before selling a player, especially where Utd are at at the moment.

Whatever your opinion of Matic, to sell any more midfielders or attacking players without having a replacement lined up is utter lunacy. We are just so incredibly light in numbers and quality in those positions already.

Tbh I still havent got my head around the club selling Lukaku and not replacing him. Its just pure bad management from the club and Ole if they have any ambition.

Bandana boy

Bandana boy wrote: »

It all comes down to whether or not signing a player in January will be the difference between top 4 or not .

If you don't think you close that gap this year , then continue to clear out the non contributing dead wood and spend proper time scouting his replacement and ensuring you get that person in the summer.

It's bollox of the highest order. No other top club is operating in such a manner.

It's been going on since January 2019 with the removal of Fellani

Wait till the summer. Aka another year of no CL and languishing mid-table as the squad depth is decimated further.

No problem get rid of players. Replace them like all other top clubs.

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

Matics first 6 months for us were relatively good, besides that he's been a terrible signing. Slow, aging and turns like a ship in ice and generally poor mobility.

Why hang onto a bad player who's over the hill, especially now that Freds finding some form. He's a squad option at best but if we can get another MF player in January Matic should go, he's being paid to watch games atm.

Continue to not understand the point being made

Mitch Connor

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/1194661603142230017

I like this bit of wimsy in the announcement.

All_in_Flynn

The Nal wrote: »

Thats because Utd payed 95 million euro for him. Id imagine hes still laughing when he gets home.

Fair play to his agent. And to Leicester. Who are better without him.

What are you on about? Leicester are not better without Maguire. He’s a far better centre half than either of theirs.

Maguire has been a huge improvement for us.

Your Airbag

Deleted User wrote: »

Continue to not understand the point being made

I understood just fine. Please enlighten me to what you think I don't understand?

Your Airbag

adox wrote: »

I do find it odd that some find it acceptable to weaken an already weal squad if the right players arent available.

I mean sell who you want I suppose but ffs replace them. Its like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If there isnt a suitable replacement then wait until there is before selling a player, especially where Utd are at at the moment.

Whatever your opinion of Matic, to sell any more midfielders or attacking players without having a replacement lined up is utter lunacy. We are just so incredibly light in numbers and quality in those positions already.

Tbh I still havent got my head around the club selling Lukaku and not replacing him. Its just pure bad management from the club and Ole if they have any ambition.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this so I'm not who finds it acceptable as you say. I said if a player can be brought in then its fine to replace Matic, if not he will be little more than a squad option. If Fred keeps impressing and when Pogba returns I dont see Matic getting much chance of starting anymore.

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

I understood just fine. Please enlighten me to what you think I don't understand?

"Matics first 6 months for us were relatively good, besides that he's been a terrible signing. Slow, aging and turns like a ship in ice and generally poor mobility.

Why hang onto a bad player who's over the hill, especially now that Freds finding some form. He's a squad option at best but if we can get another MF player in January Matic should go, he's being paid to watch games atm."

Then why quote me with the above. It doesn't relate to the point I made.
No issues removing a player who is deemed not a part of any long term future. But that's not what I was discussing.

Rayne Wooney

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

What are you on about? Leicester are not better without Maguire. He’s a far better centre half than either of theirs.

Maguire has been a huge improvement for us.

They’ve the best defensive record in the league