Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

markc91

Tuanzebe must not have been fit enough to start also garner had been carrying an injury, only reason jones started

Drumpot

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I honestly don't think so.

As the rule is currently written, if any kind of handball leads to a goal, that goal is disallowed. Intention, movement etc. don't even come into it like they do in other parts of the pitch. It's the fact that a goal was gained from it which is key and what holds it to a higher standard.

I'm not saying I agree with it btw, it's just how the rule currently stands and another mistake from the officials.

That’s my understanding aswell. Doesn’t matter that it would of been harsh or that benefit of doubt really should go to forward in situations like that, it’s either a rule or it’s not. In this case I think it struck top of his arm and it was a free our based on the rules they made up. Personally think it’s gone ridiculous and they’ve caused the problems themselves by micro managing every incident.

Kerrydude1981

Darren Fletcher just praised Ole on MOTD 2 for the changing formation a couple of times today

Be great if Ole could settle on a formation.

Weepsie

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I honestly don't think so.

As the rule is currently written, if any kind of handball leads to a goal, that goal is disallowed. Intention, movement etc. don't even come into it like they do in other parts of the pitch. It's the fact that a goal was gained from it which is key and what holds it to a higher standard.

I'm not saying I agree with it btw, it's just how the rule currently stands and another mistake from the officials.

It's on the official premier League site

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

I'm hoping it's the beginning of the end for Ole and I suspect Ferguson is trying to defend Ole and Woodward wants him gone

I very much doubt they were having conversation in the stands.

Cantona's Collars

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Darren Fletcher just praised Ole on MOTD 2 for the changing formation a couple of times today

Be great if Ole could settle on a formation.

That's basic coaching. The team were 2-0 down and playing appallingly,so changing formation isn't really praiseworthy,it was something that had to be done.

StringerBell

thomasj wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Sporf/status/1198677714984734721?s=19

Wonder what's going on here?

They are celebrating something, not quite excited enough for a goal looking at the others around them, maybe a good save? Corner? Throw in? Who knows......or cares tbh what kind of pathetic click baity attempt to drum up some interest they are going for with that pic?

The more you look at gills smile the more like the aftermath of a goal celebration it becomes I guess.

MeMen2_MoRi_

https://mobile.twitter.com/billrice23/status/1198725662372225024?s=19

Headshot

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/billrice23/status/1198725662372225024?s=19

Makes for grim reading, doesn't it.

Any other big club wouldn't of let it get this far and just sack the manager but for some bewildering idea, the utd board think they are showing patience and a suppose long term view but that's all well in good if the manager was the right one in the first place....

I'm very down hearted at the moment, just watching my club going down a downward spiral. It's killing me

MeMen2_MoRi_

Headshot wrote: »

Makes for grim reading, doesn't it.

Any other big club wouldn't of let it get this far and just sack the manager but for some bewildering idea, the utd board think they are showing patience and a suppose long term view but that's all well in good if the manager was the right one in the first place....

I'm very down hearted at the moment, just watching my club going down a downward spiral. It's killing me

Most frustrating thing is whenever Ole goes there will still be a huge problem still in place, this is what is stopping me from having hope for the club in the short/medium/long term cause I've no idea what the man has to do too suffer consequences.

BDI

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Most frustrating thing is whenever Ole goes there will still be a huge problem still in place, this is what is stopping me from having hope for the club in the short/medium/long term cause I've no idea what the man has to do too suffer consequences.

Exactly why I’d like a coach to be in the place long enough that he can have a bit of sway with the backroom and not be seen as a temporary person.

Changes are needed, a Johnny come lately won’t get away with making them.

Adamcp898

Weepsie wrote: »

It's on the official premier League site

And are you going to link to where this is said because everything I've seen written suggests the opposite.

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

https://twitter.com/markgoldbridge/status/1198702536355700736

holy **** is that real? :eek:

manufan16

Strumms wrote: »

Look, he hits the ball with his arm, controls it with his arm, his arm and body go towards the ball.... it’s handball... it’s not ball to arm, it’s arm to ball..

nonsense

GSPfan

The best part of yesterday that was good to see was Williams and Greenwood getting themselves goals. Loved how they didn’t even smile they just turned right around and got back into position.

Weepsie

Adamcp898 wrote: »

And are you going to link to where this is said because everything I've seen written suggests the opposite.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332

It may be specific to the premier League, but it's been written about on loads of places

Trigger

Weepsie wrote: »

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1263332

It may be specific to the premier League, but it's been written about on loads of places

That's only when it doesnt result in a goal though, Adam is talking about when it results in a goal, which it states in that link no such leeway is given in those circumstances

It wasnt handball anyways, hit his shoulder

All_in_Flynn

Seeing a lot of posts comparing things to Moyes, LVG and Jose etc.

I want Olè to go so we can get poch in. However I will say that I do not think things are nearly as bad as a lot here would have you believe. The points total at the moment is poor, no doubt. But I think we have been fairly unlucky so far with injuries in key areas. Some will say that’s Olè’s fault for selling players etc but I think he was dead right to get rid. I think the squad is far healthier as a result.

I also think that at times we are playing some of the best football we have since Fergie. It’s just very inconsistent which is not a complete surprise when you look at the age profile of the team.

Olè is actually doing a decent job in my eyes. His interviews annoy me though. Needs to just call a spade a spade. He’s too nice.

Lastly point I’ll make is on Martial. He’s very talented but I just don’t think he will ever make that breakthrough. He hasn’t got that mean streak in him to fight centre halves. He loses too many 50/50’s. Rashford does have it but I think he’s best playing from the left. Sign a striker in the summer.

The_Kew_Tour

The problem is we got rid of the wrong type of deadwood.

We got rid of Smalling over Jones.

This Jones situation is crazy. 9th season at the club and he barely played 10 good games for the club. Cant defend to save his life. He would not make Sheffield United starting 11. Hell he find it hard to make bench there.

And here we are, playing with practically 10 men everytime he starts. Its glaring to everyone bar the United board. But hand him new contract now why dont we..

artvanderlay

We scored 3 goals away from home, so there is potential in this team. The young players are looking good. However, we have a leaky defence, we don't have any midfielders that can control the tempo of a game, our creativity is fairly crap, and there is a lack of maturity in our play. Our manager is not up to it, and his game management is poor. Please let Ole go this week. Also, I am sick of Michael Carrick's mopey face on the bench. Get rid of him too.

I did want Utd to lose yesterday (and their next few league games) to end this disaster quickly and get Poch in while we have a chance. I stand by that. And don't give me that crap about "I'm not a real fan"...I want progress. We are still going to be ****e with Ole even if we beat Spurs and City. I'd rather get us moving with a real coach sooner rather than later.

Zeek12

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

The problem is we got rid of the wrong type of deadwood.

We got rid of Smalling over Jones.

In fairness, what club in their right mind is going to take Jones?
His injury record alone is enough to make any takers run a mile.

We had 7 CBs in August. Someone had to go.
And they did try to sell Rojo, but couldn't get the deal done in time.

What's really unbelievable is the big contract we gave Jones at start of the year.

bucketybuck

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Seeing a lot of posts comparing things to Moyes, LVG and Jose etc.

I want Olo go so we can get poch in. However I will say that I do not think things are nearly as bad as a lot here would have you believe. The points total at the moment is poor, no doubt. But I think we have been fairly unlucky so far with injuries in key areas. Some will say that’s Ol fault for selling players etc but I think he was dead right to get rid. I think the squad is far healthier as a result.

I also think that at times we are playing some of the best football we have since Fergie. It’s just very inconsistent which is not a complete surprise when you look at the age profile of the team.

Ols actually doing a decent job in my eyes.

Not really sure how to respond to that. 11 wins from 29 games since becoming permanent manager. Only 4 PL wins this season. Thats not unlucky with injuries, thats just a shocking record at any club never mind at Manchester United. A decent job? Here is a fact for you, Solskjaer has dropped points in well over half the games he has been permanent manager of Manchester United, how does that even happen?

As for playing some of the best football? No point getting into a row about it but anybody who thinks those performances are good are looking at things through a tinted lens.

All_in_Flynn

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not really sure how to respond to that. 11 wins from 29 games since becoming permanent manager. Only 4 PL wins this season. Thats not unlucky with injuries, thats just a shocking record at any club never mind at Manchester United. A decent job? Here is a fact for you, Solskjaer has dropped points in well over half the games he has been permanent manager of Manchester United, how does that even happen?

As for playing some of the best football? No point getting into a row about it but anybody who thinks those performances are good are looking at things through a tinted lens.

Look, I’ll just say that it’s not me that is looking at things through a tinted lens. You need to completely forget about the end of last season. There were lads absolutely phoning it in. It was pathetic. If you look at this season separately then I think my points hold more water. It’s a results game though so can understand peoples frustration.

I do see a lot of positives though. It’s not nearly as bad as being made out. We are just very inconsistent

Weepsie

Trigger wrote: »

That's only when it doesnt result in a goal though, Adam is talking about when it results in a goal, which it states in that link no such leeway is given in those circumstances

It wasnt handball anyways, hit his shoulder

The way the rule was read out a few weeks ago was that the wleeway can be applied for goals scored (ref talking about the city liverpool match)

Accidental handball and a handball from a deflection are classed as different things was the interpretation being adopted by the refs.

And you're right, it was not a handball.

sReq | uTeK

bucketybuck wrote: »

Not really sure how to respond to that. 11 wins from 29 games since becoming permanent manager. Only 4 PL wins this season. Thats not unlucky with injuries, thats just a shocking record at any club never mind at Manchester United. A decent job? Here is a fact for you, Solskjaer has dropped points in well over half the games he has been permanent manager of Manchester United, how does that even happen?

As for playing some of the best football? No point getting into a row about it but anybody who thinks those performances are good are looking at things through a tinted lens.

Exactly, and lets be fair...best football in comparison to what? the utter dross we seen beforehand. Its not hard to play the best football in a while when the bar has been so low.

The football the team has played has significantly gone downhill since he's got the permanent job. It peaked for a while whilst he was in charge but even 5 games or so before he got the permanent position you could see the new manager bounce was fading.

He's gutted the squad, got rid of deadwood and this has been good, but he's also not brought in seasoned pro's or people who could help from a squad perspective. That is why you have Andreas and Fred as the ONLY central midfield combo yesterday. Lets be fair, they wouldn't make the bench at Pool, City, Spurs or Chelsea.

I've lost all patience, I don't know why they don't pull the trigger now while something can be saved.

Some positives from the game yesterday.
Rashford scored again (good for momentum)
Daniel James woke up after 70 minutes.
Brandon Williams was good for the most part and what a beauty of a strike. Hopefully this ensures Ashley Young is kept well away from the squad.
Mason Greenwood, great to see him get his first premier league goal.

bucketybuck

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Look, I’ll just say that it’s not me that is looking at things through a tinted lens. You need to completely forget about the end of last season. There were lads absolutely phoning it in. It was pathetic. If you look at this season separately then I think my points hold more water. It’s a results game though so can understand peoples frustration.

I do see a lot of positives though. It’s not nearly as bad as being made out. We are just very inconsistent

I don't at all see why last season doesn't matter when it is clear that nothing has actually changed, either in terms of results or performances. We were crap then, we are crap now, I find the length of time we have been crap to be very relevant quite honestly.

But sure, judge on this season alone. 4 wins from 13 PL games. Beaten by the likes of Newcastle, Palace and Bournemouth. Do you hear people saying how a rubbish West Ham side were perfect for Jose's first spurs game? Well that rubbish side beat us 2-0.

4 wins from 13 games and some utterly dreadful performances. Yeah, its not as bad as it seems. Its worse.

Zeek12

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Look, I’ll just say that it’s not me that is looking at things through a tinted lens. You need to completely forget about the end of last season. There were lads absolutely phoning it in. It was pathetic. If you look at this season separately then I think my points hold more water. It’s a results game though so can understand peoples frustration.

I do see a lot of positives though. It’s not nearly as bad as being made out. We are just very inconsistent

I think that's fair.
A lot of young players in the side so you'll always expect a level of inconsistency.

We've lost a lot of points quite softly this season, either from just not being clinical enough (a number of missed penalties). Or an inability to close games out.
There is a pattern where we give up crucial goals very late in games.
Like yesterday, like against Palace and Liverpool too.

An extra 6 or 7 points would have had us knocking on the door for Top 4.

The last few weeks have underlined how limited our midfield options are, especially with a few injuries. This needs to be addressed.
As does the centre forward position. I just don't think Martial - talented as he is - has the tough edge needed to be a real top class forward at the highest level.

But we're not very far away - a couple of additions in the right areas would make a big difference to this team.

Cantona's Collars

The commentators kept bringing up the stat of no away league win since Fulham back in February.
That's on par with relegation fodder teams,not the standard Manchester United are expected to have.

Weepsie

We're further away now than at any point since Ferguson left. Anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

A player here would make the difference. Jose, Moyes or LvG didn't get that sort of mental gymnastics. .

We could be knocking on the door for top 4?? We're not though. Nowhere near it. We're down the road, as far away from that door as we've ever been. Mediocre players rewarded. World record fees spent on only above average defenders.

I agree that the young players shouldn't be getting shot, but they shouldn't be getting so heavily relied on anyway. Nor at the same time should players like Jones, Rojo or Young.

Whatsisname

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The commentators kept bringing up the stat of no away league win since Fulham back in February.
That's on par with relegation fodder teams,not the standard Manchester United are expected to have.

Well we beat Norwich away a few weeks ago so I'm not sure where they've pulled that from. But I cant think of any others off the top of my head.

Strumms

Weepsie wrote: »

I agree that the young players shouldn't be getting shot, but they shouldn't be getting so heavily relied on anyway. Nor at the same time should players like Jones, Rojo or Young.

This, the team is build around a nucleus of kids with no experience and a lot to prove and who are just developing and NOT the finished article and rank bang average players who are past it... like Jones, Young, Mata, Matic....

Where are the world class quality 26 year olds ? Ambitious signings, game changers ?

And... then there is Chris Smalling... absolutely tearing up Serie A, goal scoring, match winning, playing the football of his life and playing with a real aggression, ambition, determination and quality he looks like a beast over there. WHY ? Why not under Jose or Ole ?

v3ttel

markc91 wrote: »

Tuanzebe must not have been fit enough to start also garner had been carrying an injury, only reason jones started

Ole said that in his interview before the start. I have to believe that he only started Jones because he literally had no other option.

Rojo - injured
Axel - recovering from injury and not fit to play
Bailly - just back in training after a long term injury.

If we persist with playing the likes of Jones (who is horrendously bad) and Andreas Periera (who tries hard, but is just not up to it) then we're not going to see any improvement. Combine them with older players who are no where near the level needed (Matic, Young, Mata)....... then we have what we have. A very mediocre side.

Zeek12

Weepsie wrote: »

We're further away now than at any point since Ferguson left. Anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

A player here would make the difference. Jose, Moyes or LvG didn't get that sort of mental gymnastics.

Nonsense.

LVG and JM both received very substantial funding to completely rebuild the squad. Many star names brought in.

If we're further behind than ever it's due in large measure to mismanagement of our transfer policy by the club and managers over a number of years - and that includes the many duds these two managers landed us with.

Lukaku sulked his way out of the club. Pogba disinterested. Matic well past it. Bailly an absolute crock. Sanchez a complete flop. Fred fearful and terribly inconsistent. Shaw another sicknote......I could go on.

Two of the three signings last summer have hit the ground running in style and are still very young with room for improvement.

Anyone expecting this mess to be remedied in just one transfer window needs a reality check

v3ttel

v3ttel wrote: »

Ole said that in his interview before the start. I have to believe that he only started Jones because he literally had no other option.

Rojo - injured
Axel - recovering from injury and not fit to play
Bailly - just back in training after a long term injury.

If we persist with playing the likes of Jones (who is horrendously bad) and Andreas Periera (who tries hard, but is just not up to it) then we're not going to see any improvement. Combine them with older players who are no where near the level needed (Matic, Young, Mata)....... then we have what we have. A very mediocre side.

In line with the management team so!

Will I Am Not

Here’s a good one lads. Andreas Pereira has started 11 of the 13 league games and came on as a sub in another.
Some craic :pac:

Mitch Connor

The Tuanzebe sub. going back to 5 at the back after it sucking all first half.... is just insanity from Solskjaer. We had no shape in midfield or attack after that.

I could understand Martial coming off, but it should have been Garner brought in to midfield - keeping the defence as it was, adding a body into midfield and providing some balance/shape to that area of the pitch that had been abandoned in search of goals. What was the front 4? Fred, James, Greenwood, Rashford - where is the reasoning in what that midfield forward is going to do?

The 11 that ended the match, in terms of make up, was just inviting pressure on, which brought about the goal.

Bandana boy

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

The commentators kept bringing up the stat of no away league win since Fulham back in February.
That's on par with relegation fodder teams,not the standard Manchester United are expected to have.

That is Spurs !

Jurgen The German

Truth.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/eamonn-sweeney-united-must-be-brave-and-wave-goodbye-to-solskjaer-and-there-is-only-one-man-to-replace-him-38722415.html

Ashbourne hoop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The Tuanzebe sub. going back to 5 at the back after it sucking all first half.... is just insanity from Solskjaer. We had no shape in midfield or attack after that.

It was a chicken **** sub from Solskjaer and he got what he deserved from it.

Headshot

Jurgen The German wrote: »

Truth.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/eamonn-sweeney-united-must-be-brave-and-wave-goodbye-to-solskjaer-and-there-is-only-one-man-to-replace-him-38722415.html

"Pochettino is the perfect fit for United. If ever an appointment seemed a no-brainer, bringing him in to replace Solskjaer is it. This is a watershed moment, a golden opportunity to halt an apparently remorseless slide into mediocrity"

Nail on head

Invincible

If Ponch comes in, could Ole take director of football role?

bucketybuck

Invincible wrote: »

If Ponch comes in, could Ole take director of football role?

No, why on earth should he?

limnam

Headshot wrote: »

"Pochettino is the perfect fit for United. If ever an appointment seemed a no-brainer, bringing him in to replace Solskjaer is it. This is a watershed moment, a golden opportunity to halt an apparently remorseless slide into mediocrity"

Nail on head

Did Spurs not spiral into mediocrity

v3ttel

I like Pochettino, he did a very good job over multiple years at Spurs.........but to play devils advocate.

I wonder what the people calling for Pochettino would think if we had 14 points after 12 games?

Of if they've be happy if we took 9 points from 14 away games in the current calendar year?

Or how they would feel about appointing a manager who has never won a trophy?

Seeing as those are the the reasons for wanting our current manager out. IMHO, this "golden opportunity" is hyperbolic BS. There is no magic wand or silver bullet to fix the problems at MUFC.

Bandana boy

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, why on earth should he?

I have heard of worse ideas
On paper recruitment quantity under ole may be a problem but the moves in and out he has made are all correct

While tactics appear to be where he is falling down .

Keep the good work he is doing in rebuilding the squad , keep the faith with his supporters including the media pundits , and replace the tactical naivety

Cantona's Collars

Whatsisname wrote: »

Well we beat Norwich away a few weeks ago so I'm not sure where they've pulled that from. But I cant think of any others off the top of my head.

Yeah,I thought it was odd too,they said it at least twice but brought up a contradictory stat of 1 away win since then.
Iirc that's when we beat Palace at the end of February.

PhlegmyMoses

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The Tuanzebe sub. going back to 5 at the back after it sucking all first half.... is just insanity from Solskjaer. We had no shape in midfield or attack after that.

I could understand Martial coming off, but it should have been Garner brought in to midfield - keeping the defence as it was, adding a body into midfield and providing some balance/shape to that area of the pitch that had been abandoned in search of goals. What was the front 4? Fred, James, Greenwood, Rashford - where is the reasoning in what that midfield forward is going to do?

The 11 that ended the match, in terms of make up, was just inviting pressure on, which brought about the goal.

Tuanzebe went into the midfield right? At least that was what it looked like

Tuanzebe is not a midfielder if that's what the plan was
We had no shape or structure for the majority of the game never mind towards the end of the game

Weepsie

Bandana boy wrote: »

I have heard of worse ideas
On paper recruitment quantity under ole may be a problem but the moves in and out he has made are all correct

Maguire was a target at least a year before. And the wrong target too imo. Wan-Bisakka was arguably the most touted young player in the league last year.

If he wanted James, then credit for that, but that's all.

His recruitment at Cardiff was dire too.

Invincible

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, why on earth should he?

He's been an outstanding player for the club.
He'd have the best interests of the club at heart.
Why give the job to an outsider with no history in the club?