Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

Mitch Connor

kippy wrote: »

Ultimately what is wrong with relegation=

oh ffs. done with your trolling on this so.

Zeek12

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What did we see from Mata or Matic last season that would have us thinking they'd be top performers for us this season? They are players that should have been replaced in the summer too - that he is relying on Pereira is down to the squad decisions he has made. You can't absolve him of the problems their poor performances cause, when their poor performances were predictable.

Fairly inconsistent logic there.

When Jones, Smalling, Darmian etc. weren't shipped out in 2018 and replaced - it was all the boards/Ed's fault. And Mourinho was blameless according to many.

Same problem re-occurs last summer with other players...and the manager now is apparently totally to blame?

Liam O

xtal191 wrote: »

Ole is first manager post Fergie who hasn't improved the team over the previous manager. Van Gaal was an improvement over Moyes, Mourinho was an improvement over Van Gaal, Ole has been worse than the lot of them.

Moyes didn't get a second summer to clear out the players who were clearly past it. It still may not have worked out in the future but getting rid of him then is the root cause of the team being where they are now. Fergie's last words, stand by the new manager. The soul was ripped out of the club that Summer as they tried to become just another superclub. Throw money at the problem rather than try to foster a winning culture based on consistency and attitude rather than mercenaries.

The club is probably finished. You could say I guess that if the Saudis come in they could throw enough money at it to fix it and some would be delighted but I don't see how they can go on assuming money will fix it. It's getting the commitment back and fostering winners. Ole has got further towards fixing the rot than his predecessors and for that reason I'd be happy to overlook his less than stellar tactical displays this season and see what he can do with a few higher quality attackers.

Ordinary man

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Bringing on an actual midfielder, Garner, instead of Tuanzebe was the sub that should have been made.

What did we see from Mata or Matic last season that would have us thinking they'd be top performers for us this season? They are players that should have been replaced in the summer too - that he is relying on Pereira is down to the squad decisions he has made. You can't absolve him of the problems their poor performances cause, when their poor performances were predictable.

Woodward is the one who is supposed to buy the replacements not ole. Maybe ole should have copied jose when he the squad wasn't improved and threw a strop and waited to be sacked with a payoff. We don't know if woodward had promised him replacements or not. All i see is a manager trying to make the best of what he's got atm and i prefer that to what jose or poch did when they didn't get what they wanted

Mitch Connor

Zeek12 wrote: »

Fairly inconsistent logic there.

When Jones, Smalling, Darmian etc. weren't shipped out in 2018 and replaced - it was all the boards/Ed's fault. And Mourinho was blameless according to many.

Same problem re-occurs last summer with other players...and the manager now is apparently totally to blame?

the manager who said he is happy with the squad. The manager who allowed players to move on (Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku) without replacing them. If he couldnt replace them, he shouldn't have sanctioned their sale.

Ole was happy to see Fellaini and Herrera leave without being replaced, and rely on Mata, Matic and Pereira.

kippy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

oh ffs. done with your trolling on this so.

Ha, disagree with someone, call them a troll. Report the post.

Mitch Connor

kippy wrote: »

Ha, disagree with someone, call them a troll. Report the post.

when the argument gets to 'So what if Ole gets us relegated', its beyond the point of just disagreeing.

Zeek12

Mitch Connor wrote: »

the manager who said he is happy with the squad. The manager who allowed players to move on (Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku) without replacing them. If he couldnt replace them, he shouldn't have sanctioned their sale.

Ole was happy to see Fellaini and Herrera leave without being replaced, and rely on Mata, Matic and Pereira.

It's obvious he's trying to build team spirit and togetherness when he says these things. Boost the young players confidence.
I doubt he really believes it privately. For all we know the club were just as unsupportive with the purse strings this summer as they were last time.

Lukaku practically forced his way out in a massive sulk.
The Herrera thing was messed up before Ole even took over, he tried to rescue it but was far too late.

He moved on Darmian and Sanchez and those are positives. The squad needs so much surgery and the club are not making it easy financially speaking. Its going to take a long time to fix the colossal mess we are in, and to fix some of the terrible decisions of the last 5 years.

Mitch Connor

Zeek12 wrote: »

It's obvious he's trying to build team spirit and togetherness when he says these things. Boost the young players confidence.
I doubt he really believes it privately. For all we know the club were just as unsupportive with the purse strings this summer as they were last time.

Lukaku practically forced his way out in a massive sulk.
The Herrera thing was messed up before Ole even took over, he tried to rescue it but was far too late.

they should have been replaced. There is no evidence that Ole pushed united to do so.

adox

Ha I’m honestly baffled by some of the opinions on here.

Getting rid of Moyes so quickly caused the problems??

I think the exact opposite. Not getting rid of him quick enough started causing the problems. The rot was aloud set in in the dressing room and the club. The players were shown that the standards had gone out the door with Fergie and Gill. Mediocrity would be tolerated. Indecision would be the norm. Manchester Utd were now being run by amateurs.

Decisive action when it was clear Moyes wasn’t going to work may have been a catalyst to stop this cataclysmic slide. I think it was one of the worst decisions the club has ever taken allowing Moyes to stay in charge up until and after Christmas.

Also the “sure we’ve tried and sacked loads of managers” spiel as an argument to leave Ole in charge is farcical. Apart from it being a stupid and simplistic argument, even giving it some credence, why would decide to stick with the least experienced manager we have had. A manager that is doing a horrible job with the squad, with the playing style, with the points total. Sure I’d you want to go down that route we should have stuck with Jose, the most successful manager we’ve appointed post Fergie.

Everyone knows there are bigger problems at the club, namely the CEO and the owners but that doesn’t mean the manager shouldn’t be held to account.

Oles reign has been appalling. He should be sacked.

kippy

adox wrote: »

Ha I’m honestly baffled by some of the opinions on here.

Getting rid of Moyes so quickly caused the problems??

I think the exact opposite. Not getting rid of him quick enough started causing the problems. The rot was aloud set in in the dressing room and the club. The players were shown that the standards had gone out the door with Fergie and Gill. Mediocrity would be tolerated. Indecision would be the norm. Manchester Utd were now being run by amateurs.

Decisive action when it was clear Moyes wasn’t going to work may have been a catalyst to stop this cataclysmic slide. I think it was one of the worst decisions the club has ever taken allowing Moyes to stay in charge up until and after Christmas.

Also the “sure we’ve tried and sacked loads of managers” spiel as an argument to leave Ole in charge is farcical. Apart from it being a stupid and simplistic argument, even giving it some credence, why would decide to stick with the least experienced manager we have had. A manager that is doing a horrible job with the squad, with the playing style, with the points total. Sure I’d you want to go down that route we should have stuck with Jose, the most successful manager we’ve appointed post Fergie.

Everyone knows there are bigger problems at the club, namely the CEO and the owners but that doesn’t mean the manager shouldn’t be held to account.

Oles reign has been appalling. He should be sacked.

When and where does it stop.

kippy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

when the argument gets to 'So what if Ole gets us relegated', its beyond the point of just disagreeing.

You brought it up.

Mitch Connor

kippy wrote: »

You brought it up.

as a reason for sacking him!
and you said whats the problem with that? Sure stick with Ole no matter what is happening.

Zeek12

Mitch Connor wrote: »

they should have been replaced. There is no evidence that Ole pushed united to do so.

If you want a manager repeatedly going to war with the club - and several players too - and creating a circus in the media, you're entitled to have that preference of course.

But there are other ways to manage.

And you have no evidence he didn't push hard for replacements - in private.

Mitch Connor

Zeek12 wrote: »

If you want a manager repeatedly going to war with the club - and several players too - and creating a circus in the media, you're entitled to have that preference of course.

But there are other ways to manage.

And you have no evidence he didn't push hard for replacements - in private.

not a single story coming out of the club indicate Ole was pushing for a midfielder, or a winger, or a forward. Maybe the club have got really good at shutting negative press down... but I doubt it.

There is nothing to suggest Ole is particularly unhappy with the the squad.

He didn't need to go to war. Just needed to say there is no way we can sell Fellaini, or Lukaku, without replacing them. They get replaced or they stay.

bucketybuck

Gary Neville embarrassing himself again tonight.

Go on Gary, its ok, you can criticise your mate, he'll forgive you I'm sure...

Lord TSC

If some people are being serious, they need to read up on the "Sunk Cost Fallacy". Just because time has been committed to a scenario doesn't justify continuing it.

No one can offer up something unique about Ole that means he should keep his job. It's all just "Well, he's got it, so we absolutely can't take it away from him now."

kippy

Lord TSC wrote: »

If some people are being serious, they need to read up on the "Sunk Cost Fallacy". Just because time has been committed to a scenario doesn't justify continuing it.

No one can offer up something unique about Ole that means he should keep his job. It's all just "Well, he's got it, so we absolutely can't take it away from him now."

Here's the Unique thing. Have some patience with the guy. Give him three years minimum no matter what the outcome.
Unique in an age of unrealistic expectations.

bucketybuck

kippy wrote: »

Here's the Unique thing. Have some patience with the guy. Give him three years minimum no matter what the outcome.
Unique in an age of unrealistic expectations.

Why? Give me one reason why the club should do that?

Give me one reason based on Ole's merits rather than vague generalities that could apply to anybody no matter who they were.

His record is atrocious, so why does he deserve more time? Why?

VW 1

kippy wrote: »

Here's the Unique thing. Have some patience with the guy. Give him three years minimum no matter what the outcome.
Unique in an age of unrealistic expectations.

Would you have said the same about Dalglish and Hodgson at Liverpool? Would you fück. Run along with your ridiculous opinions.

Headshot

I missed most of MNF

They did talk about utd?

kippy

VW 1 wrote: »

Would you have said the same about Dalglish and Hodgson at Liverpool? Would you fück. Run along with your ridiculous opinions.

Don't really give a fiddler's about Liverpool tbf.

Lord TSC

kippy wrote: »

Here's the Unique thing. Have some patience with the guy. Give him three years minimum no matter what the outcome.
Unique in an age of unrealistic expectations.

Thats called "blind faith", and has to be earned first.

bucketybuck

Headshot wrote: »

I missed most of MNF

They did talk about utd?

Neville showed how little the front three offered yesterday, various examples of how little movement they were offering and how little effort they were making off the ball.

Then he compared those same players to Ronaldo and said they could still come good and went on a rant about how Ole needs to get selfish and spend Uniteds money in January and get players to play with the kids.

Then he was directly asked why Ole was the right person to make those changes and if United should go for Poch, and it was deflection city from that point on.

Headshot

bucketybuck wrote: »

Neville showed how little the front three offered yesterday, various examples of how little movement they were offering and how little effort they were making off the ball.

Then he compared those same players to Ronaldo and said they could still come good and went on a rant about how Ole needs to get selfish and spend Uniteds money in January and get players to play with the kids.

Then he was directly asked why Ole was the right person to make those changes and if United should go for Poch, and it was deflection city from that point on.

Not surprising of Neville since it's his pal in charge, it's funny how so many ex players have really gotten quiet where as if this was Jose they'd be war

kippy

Lord TSC wrote: »

Thats called "blind faith", and has to be earned first.

Ah yeah sure look at van gaals and mourinhos records and how that ended up.
Plenty people on here calling for them to get the jobs then a few short years calling for them to be sacked for one reason or another.

People on here obviously know a hell of a lot more about the business of football than those who get paid to know about it.

Mitch Connor

In fairness to Neville, this comes up every time he is asked about a manager that is under pressure. He doesn't call for them to be sacked. Its not an Ole thing. It was the same with LVG and Jose. It was the same with Wenger. It was the same with Poch. He doesn't call for a manager job.

kippy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fairness to Neville, this comes up every time he is asked about a manager that is under pressure. He doesn't call for them to be sacked. Its not an Ole thing. It was the same with LVG and Jose. It was the same with Wenger. It was the same with Poch. He doesn't call for a manager job.

He's been there - knows all about it.

Quandary

If Pochettino was in Oles position right now as manager of Man Utd I would be all for giving him time to get things on track. He has proven he can do it consistently at Spurs with far more stringent financial constraints.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest Ole has the track record to turn it around. Keeping him in the job is a spineless decision being made by a spineless lamprey and his leaching bosses.

The board know that Oles legend status within the club and his connection to the Fergie golden era will buy them far more time than any other manager in the world.

To think that Ed Woodward is still at the helm and has presided over the failure of 4 managers, has squandered a billion pounds and we are now looking at the weakest, most threadbare squad I can remember in over 30 years of supporting the club is beyond belief.

Ole is not the only problem at the club. Hes not even the biggest problem at the club but he is the cheapest problem to fix.

Zeek12

Poch looks like a guy mentally drained by his last 8/9 months at Spurs.
Appointing him now would not be ideal imo.

There's every chance he'd reject the offer anyway seeing how badly this club is run.

Are there credible proven alternatives? What are the names?

And does anyone really believe the jokeshop club owners/CEO would be capable of going out and recruiting them anyway?

Brendan Flowers

So then I guess no one actually knows what the qualifications are for a DoF??

DARK-KNIGHT

Would take Brendan Rodgers in a heartbeat over OLE

Plays a great style of football to be fair to him

BDI

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Would take Brendan Rodgers in a heartbeat over OLE

Plays a great style of football to be fair to him

If Rodgers was available I’d consider him to be honest. Has shown that he can pull a team together from very little a number of times.

Liverpool May finally win the league with the groundwork he started.

Peatys

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Would take Brendan Rodgers in a heartbeat over OLE

Plays a great style of football to be fair to him

Even better, go for Rafa.

BDI

Peatys wrote: »

Even better, go for Rafa.

Well In fairness to him, was it not him who ended the hicks rain of terror?

Quandary

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnnnnnnnnddd

they're off

jay0109

Peatys wrote: »

Even better, go for Rafa.

Stevie G is doing a great job up at Ibrox....let's not rule out any options here.

BDI

A serious discussion has to be had for Rodgers.
Swansea, Liverpool, Celtic, Leicester. All a success.

Most importantly leavesclubs in good shape when he leaves. I predict he will end up at arsenal for the next 20 years but I’d be happy if we signed him if we end up in a managerless situation.

Mitch Connor

I'd take Rodgers and half the leicster team in a heart beat.

Damien360

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Would take Brendan Rodgers in a heartbeat over OLE

Plays a great style of football to be fair to him

It’s a dark day for Utd fans if you are thinking that. His excuses when things go to pot are as bad as Ole’s.

Leicester are a totally different setup to Utd and have been for years. They don’t buy big. Team spirit has been there long before he came in but credit him with bringing that on more. BR’s record of purchases at LFC were poor except for a few stunning ones like Firmino and Coutinho. Milner if you want to count a free.

You must be mad or desperate to want BR. By the way, I don’t think Poch is the man for the job either. Look at Spurs form, it’s brutal for a very long time although in fairness he got little to no investment. I wouldn’t have any of the current crop of ex-Utd cheer leaders either as their loyalty to Ole outweighs their club love.

Peatys

Quandary wrote: »

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnnnnnnnnddd

they're off

He started it!

BDI

Fair play to Ole for getting the 70 million a year shirt sponsor from the owners of Hoover. I heard Woodward wanted to go with Nike for 35 million but Ole vetoed it.

2021 is when he will be given a striker.

AidoEirE

kippy wrote: »

Ah yeah sure look at van gaals and mourinhos records and how that ended up.
Plenty people on here calling for them to get the jobs then a few short years calling for them to be sacked for one reason or another.

People on here obviously know a hell of a lot more about the business of football than those who get paid to know about it.

Point is, van gaal and mourinho did not put united in this bad of a position this early in a position at the tenure of their managerial time at united and to be honest, there's ex player's if the game at the top level, pundit's, analysts that call for ole to go just as much as people here so your last paragraph is ****e to be honest.

You made a point earlier in whats so bad about relegation. Im not actually sure if you jad a few pints or just deluded.

By that "relegation" comment you made it sounded like, whats so wrong with that kinda form, keep with ole, sure it'll all come good eventually..

Do you honestly believe the glazers/board would invest in any type of cash to the team if this form keeps continuing? The team needs investing in after his big clear out apprantly.

Was giving Jones a new contract, not getting in any midfielders in the summer or the ****e formation for the match yesterday nothing to do with ole?

AidoEirE

Zeek12 wrote: »

Poch looks like a guy mentally drained by his last 8/9 months at Spurs.
Appointing him now would not be ideal imo.

There's every chance he'd reject the offer anyway seeing how badly this club is run.

Are there credible proven alternatives? What are the names?

And does anyone really believe the jokeshop club owners/CEO would be capable of going out and recruiting them anyway?

Allegri, Rangnick, Blanc, Potch. All quality managers in their own right that are all credible

Cantona's Collars

It won't matter who's in charge if Woodward keeps playing his own version Football Manager and running the club as a business instead of an actual football club.

elchupanebrey

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

It won't matter who's in charge if Woodward keeps playing his own version Football Manager and running the club as a business instead of an actual football club.

I agree who is in charge doesn't matter at all.

Unfortunately it is a business now. Woodard and the owners don't give a hoot about the club or anything to do with it apart from 1 thing. How much money they can make from it. It'll only change when sponsors/partners decide to stop paying silly money to be associated with United. How long that will take is anyone's guess. But it doesn't seem it'll be any time soon.

It's a sickener to see the ownership we have compared to the clubs with owners that aren't leeches.

bucketybuck

elchupanebrey wrote: »

I agree who is in charge doesn't matter at all.

I just can't agree with this sentiment. It does matter. Even if the board is toxic the manager and coaches can still be doing a poor job within that context and those parameters.

If our left back is rubbish we don't wring our hands and cry "no point changing him if Woodward is still in charge". No, we still state that we need a better left back. Its no different for any part of the club.

Is he doing a good job? Can we improve in that area? Those questions apply regardless of what the board are doing.

wadacrack

United should be looking at Grealish as a replacement for Pogba. Different players but I think he could play in a 3 man midfield with 2 defensive midfielders. Very little creativity when teams are defending deep. Most of United chances being created on counter attack's or when teams turn over the ball.

Zeek12

AidoEirE wrote: »

Allegri, Rangnick, Blanc, Potch. All quality managers in their own right that are all credible

There's not a hope Allegri will take this job.
Blanc, maybe.

Rangnick is interesting - but didn't he leave coaching complaining of stress levels to take a DoF role instead?

If you're worried about blood pressure & exhaustion, stay away from OT!

https://twitter.com/TheManUtdWay/status/1199044846423556096?s=19

Carragher talking sense again