Dangerous bus stop on Bray head

Boulevardier

A friend and I finished a walk along the top of Bray Head yesterday and took a new arrow-marked access path leading to a bus stop a little below Windgates.



To cross the road to the Bray-bound bus stop (no 4302) is a highly dangerous business.



There is a blind corner there with very fast cars coming along it, while fast and busy traffic is also coming at you all the time from the Greystones side.


We took an excessive risk in crossing the road to access the stop at that point. A group of younger hikers behind us saw this and rightly chose to walk along the verge and cross at the next bus stop down.



I regard this spot as a death trap. I am certain someone is going to get hurt or killed there before long if it is allowed to continue.

is_that_so

Boulevardier wrote: »

A friend and I finished a walk along the top of Bray Head yesterday and took a new signposted access path leading to a bus stop a little below Windgates.



To cross the road to the Bray-bound bus stop (no 4302) is a highly dangerous business.



There is a blind corner there with very fast cars coming along it, while fast and busy traffic is also coming at you all the time from the Greystones side.


We took an excessive risk in crossing the road to access the stop at that point. A group of younger hikers behind us saw this and rightly chose to walk along the verge and cross at the next bus stop down.



I regard this spot as a death trap. I am certain someone is going to get hurt or killed there before long if it is allowed to continue.

Cut and paste that into an email and send it to Wicklow CC Traffic department, DB and every local politician.

Dravokivich

Your issue is with the people driving carelessly, not the bus stop.

Alun

I drive that road often, and somewhere around the higher of the bus stops the limit changes from 80km/h to 50km/h and continues on over the crest of the hill for a short distance. Nobody takes any notice of it though, either coming from the 80km/h limit on the Bray side, or even the 60km/h limit on the Greystones side.

I wasn't aware there was now signposting for walkers there, presumably leading on to Lord Meath's Gate into Kilruddery (?), but I do know there were plans afoot to create a walking route from Bray Head, over onto the Little Sugarloaf and on to the Great Sugarloaf and then across the common land between the new and old Long Hill roads via Powerscourt/Djouce woods to ultimately join up with the Wicklow Way. I'd heard that apart from negotiating access through Kilruddery, one of the major points of concern was that particular road crossing, and that before that was sorted, there'd be no real progress on finalizing the route.

I'd try and get on to someone in Wicklow CC who's responsible for the signposting there. I know Stephen Matthews from the Greens takes a keen interest in the various walking routes around the area so maybe contact him directly?

2x4

Is this the spot?: https://goo.gl/maps/TsyNsLSx9hL5Biaj6

loyatemu

that stop (and the one across the road for Greystones direction) are completely unnecessary - there are alternative stops 5 minutes walk in either direction that serve the houses on the old road just as well:



I think the signposting may be leftover from the eco-race last weekend - for that they had Gardaí on the road stopping traffic for the runners.

sy_flembeck

Alun wrote: »

I drive that road often, and somewhere around the higher of the bus stops the limit changes from 80km/h to 50km/h and continues on over the crest of the hill for a short distance. Nobody takes any notice of it though, either coming from the 80km/h limit on the Bray side, or even the 60km/h limit on the Greystones side.

And yet there's a big whingefest currently going on over on Bray Open Forum from those same motorists complaining about people on bikes slowing them down at that very spot. Lethal stretch of road

tc20

sy_flembeck wrote: »

And yet there's a big whingefest currently going on over on Bray Open Forum from those same motorists complaining about people on bikes slowing them down at that very spot. Lethal stretch of road

I cycle between Greystones & Bray daily and the amount of stupid overtakes approaching the crest is ridiculous - there's no way a driver can see over the top of the hill yet they will overtake, often with oncoming (downhill) traffic.
That said, there are more patient and considerate drivers who will wait until it is safe to pass, only for them (the patient drivers) suffer beeps from cars behind - you just can't win :rolleyes:

@ Alun - when I do drive that route, I do observe the 50km/h limit either side of the crest. It's akin to driving through a village (which that group of houses is imho) but you're right, the vast majority pay no heed to that limit.
I have seen a Garda car the odd time on the Bray side, pulled in at the bus stop, hopefully they will increase their presence there with a speed gun.

loyatemu

the 50 limit at Windgates is fairly recent, it was 60. I agree about the bad driving, particularly on the Greystones side of the hill. I cycle it regularly during the summer and frequently have drivers overtaking me in the face of oncoming traffic. The Bray side isn't as bad as the road is a bit wider. Fair dues to you for cycling it every day, I generally stop once the traffic get heavy again.

It's an unpleasant route to cycle as you're going very slowly because of the hill and the traffic builds up behind. It could do with a cycle lane - there's space, except at the very top where they could have a shared path (Windgates isn't exactly Grafton St).

(I saw that discussion on the GOF, but chose not to read it, life's too short).

2x4

The real issue is that its dangerous to cycle or walk from Bray to Greystones, Kilmacanogue, Kilcroney Lane, Old Fassaroe etc. There is no way to walk safely to Kilmacanogue from Bray without risking your life.

This is due to Wicklow CC road planners prioritising motor traffic over cyclists and pedestrians.

People will continue to avoid walking and cycling unless Wicklow CC changes its policy.

loyatemu

in fairness, there is a footpath from Greystones to Bray (well most of the way, at Windgates you have to go onto the old road which has virtually no traffic).

There are also plans for a new road from Woodies to Kilmac which will presumably have foot and cycle paths.

Boulevardier

2x4 yes that looks very like it, although I cannot make out the stop number in your picture.

The signage I was referring to is a small red arrow on the inner road which serves the cottages. It marks a short cut which did not exist until very recently, and it directs walkers to the road at stop 4302 instead of to the next bus stop towards Bray.

I am going to send my message to the council or to a public representative.

loyatemu

Boulevardier wrote: »

The signage I was referring to is a small red arrow on the inner road which serves the cottages.

as mentioned above, I think that's a marker for the Ecotrail race from a couple of weeks ago. AFAIK it's not a marked walking trail.
https://wicklow.ecotrail.com/en

Boulevardier

It was a red arrow painted as a permanent marker. It led you to a gate and then right into the death trap. If it was for an event that had Gardai on duty then it should have been removed immediately afterwards.

In any case, there either needs to be traffic calming or the bus stop needs to be moved.

recedite

loyatemu wrote: »

It could do with a cycle lane - there's space, except at the very top where they could have a shared path (Windgates isn't exactly Grafton St).

That's a very good suggestion.
A lot of money was spent putting in double width cycle paths where they were not really needed, such as along the coastline at Marine Rd. near St Davids school.These are mostly used by pedestrians now.


In the meantime some form of traffic calming is needed at Windgates. But I'm not a fan of the common methods ie ramps or deliberately narrowing the road. They can be hazards in themselves, potentially hurting people and cars.
In this day and age, speed cameras fixed in place are cheap and quick to install, and are highly effective.


One major issue is that the Windgates route is really the only alternative commuter route to the Glen of the Downs NII route, and the traffic problems from Kilpedder through to Kilmac are only getting worse. Its featured on RTE national traffic bulletins almost every morning now. These two must be the most famous non-towns in the country at this stage!


All this means "the powers that be" will be reluctant to slow down traffic at Windgates, as that would only make the inadequacy of their traffic planning decisions even more glaringly obvious. Any pedestrian or cyclist deaths will just be the collateral damage.

Boulevardier

I would say that unpopular as they are, ramps or chicanes need to be put in. Another alternative might be a pedestrian crossing with light.

keano_afc

Lights on the road from the golf club up towards the top of the hill should be a priority. I was going to a quiz in the club recently and got off the bus at the first stop after the golf club, and had to walk back down. The road and path is pitch black, I was genuinely scared walking down towards the club.