Rugby World Cup 2019 Hagibis Projected Path

lawrencesummers

loyatemu wrote: »

how much organisation is required to find a pitch and get 2 teams on it? It doesn't need spectators, cameras, security - it wouldn't be ideal but it's still a lot better than just cancelling and marking them off as 0-0 draws.

And your convinced they didn’t consider this because of what?

Podge_irl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And your convinced they didn’t consider this because of what?

If moving the games elsewhere to be played behind closed doors was not an option it is only because sufficient contingency planning was not done before now. The teams involved should be on a plane right now heading somewhere safe to play.

lawrencesummers

Podge_irl wrote: »

If moving the games elsewhere to be played behind closed doors was not an option it is only because sufficient contingency planning was not done before now. The teams involved should be on a plane right now heading somewhere safe to play.

Must be easy organizing a World Cup with an incoming super typhoon from the safety of your keyboard.

crisco10

Podge_irl wrote: »

If moving the games elsewhere to be played behind closed doors was not an option it is only because sufficient contingency planning was not done before now. The teams involved should be on a plane right now heading somewhere safe to play.

Also, you would have expect given that this is THE flagship tournament for World Rugby, the acceptable amount of work to complete the tournament would be quite high.

Their approach is more suited to the J3 League.

Finally, if they had actually done contingency planning they would have allowed some slack in the tournament rules re playing on the very same date. This is not a new threat. See puff piece in the Guardian from a year ago

Tournament Director, Alan Gilpin wrote:

we are planning right through from what happens if a team hotel is lost, what happens if a training venue is lost, through to what happens if one or more match venues are lost. Where do you relocate matches to, what are the time frames, how does that affect transport, planning, moving teams around? We are working through all those scenarios

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/19/year-japan-rugby-braced-threat-natural-disasters

Podge_irl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Must be easy organizing a World Cup with an incoming super typhoon from the safety of your keyboard.

I could certainly book some flights that take off today or tomorrow from the safety of my keyboard. That would be a start to sorting out this ****show.

lawrencesummers

Podge_irl wrote: »

I could certainly book some flights that take off today or tomorrow from the safety of my keyboard. That would be a start to sorting out this ****show.

For 100 people plus equipment? And have the necessary security, medical and emergency people in place away from where they will be needed. Sure you could.

salmocab

crisco10 wrote: »

Their approach is more suited to the J3 League]

A j3 league match would be switched to the away teams pitch if the home was unplayable and failing that it would be rescheduled. It could be argued that the j3 league would in fact have dealt better with this.

BattleCorp

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Must be easy organizing a World Cup with an incoming super typhoon from the safety of your keyboard.

There are contingency plans for weather affected knockout games..............so are we being unrealistic to expect them to have something similar for pool games?

lawrencesummers

BattleCorp wrote: »

There are contingency plans for weather affected knockout games..............so are we being unrealistic to expect them to have something similar for pool games?

Yea.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yea.

rubbish

this is the pinnacle rugby competition held every 4 years.

ANY contingency to have the games played is better than none.

The whole idea of contingency is that you DONT have to be organising them 2 days out from a game.

lawrencesummers

sydthebeat wrote: »

rubbish

this is the pinnacle rugby competition held every 4 years.

ANY contingency to have the games played is better than none.

The whole idea of contingency is that you DONT have to be organising them 2 days out from a game.

The whole idea of safety is that you DONT do things that can result in casualty. Maybe they are just putting those priorities first.... people are most likely going to die when this hits but the keyboard warriors want their entertainment. If someone was injured or killed trying to get a fixture fulfilled you would be the same guardian of moral outrage that says it should never have gone ahead.

This hit two years ago and wasn’t as strong as Hagibis is currently. https://watchers.news/2017/10/23/typhoon-lan-japan-damage-casualties/

Podge_irl

How will someone get killed from playing a match in a different location behind closed doors? No one is suggesting the match be played in the middle of a typhoon, but they have 2-3 days to sort out an alternative. That is a large span of time.

prawnsambo

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The whole idea of safety is that you DONT do things that can result in casualty. Maybe they are just putting those priorities first.... people are most likely going to die when this hits but the keyboard warriors want their entertainment. If someone was injured or killed trying to get a fixture fulfilled you would be the same guardian of moral outrage that says it should never have gone ahead.

This hit two years ago and wasn’t as strong as Hagibis is currently. https://watchers.news/2017/10/23/typhoon-lan-japan-damage-casualties/

All the forecasts seem to be saying that it will have cleared Japan and weakened significantly by Sunday evening. I suspect teams would be happy enough to play their matches on Monday if given the choice and no need to move anyone or anything. I saw that video earlier and yes, it was one third the size of Hagibis. Safety is vital, but they really should just postpone games.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The whole idea of safety is that you DONT do things that can result in casualty. Maybe they are just putting those priorities first.... people are most likely going to die when this hits but the keyboard warriors want their entertainment. If someone was injured or killed trying to get a fixture fulfilled you would be the same guardian of moral outrage that says it should never have gone ahead.

This hit two years ago and wasn’t as strong as Hagibis is currently. https://watchers.news/2017/10/23/typhoon-lan-japan-damage-casualties/

exactly !!

so you should have contingency plans to move teams TODAY, to play in stadia that are not affected by this typhoon.......behind closed doors of course to minimise risks to fans.

world rugby actually has change of venue listed as a contingency (but not change of date for some stupid reason?)

however we are not seeing any evidence of any attempt to enact such contingencies, if such contingencies ever existed

UnknownSpecies

If it was J3 rugby, the home team would have to concede the points if the pitch is unplayable. I think it's only fair that Japan should have to do that.

lawrencesummers

It’s highly likely that the contingency plans or plan B that people keep talking about are just not feasible either due to the weather.

Ballso

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s highly likely that the contingency plans or plan B that people keep talking about are just not feasible either due to the weather.

So the contingency plans for dealing with inclement weather not feasible because of inclement weather. Not really contingency plans then, are they?

josip

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s highly likely that the contingency plans or plan B that people keep talking about are just not feasible either due to the weather.

Ah come on lawrence, it's getting a bit ridiculous now.
Put down the shovel and step back from the keyboard.

lawrencesummers

Ballso wrote: »

So the contingency plans for dealing with inclement weather not feasible because of inclement weather. Not really contingency plans then, are they?

Your not really comprehending the level of weather that is due.

lawrencesummers

josip wrote: »

Ah come on lawrence, it's getting a bit ridiculous now.
Put down the shovel and step back from the keyboard.

Don’t have a shovel.
Not using a keyboard.

Hurrache

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Your not really comprehending the level of weather that is due.

Like I said, there's still another 6 games due to go ahead.

josip

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Don’t have a shovel.
...

I'm impressed, that's a mighty fine hole you've dug for yourself without one.

prawnsambo

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s highly likely that the contingency plans or plan B that people keep talking about are just not feasible either due to the weather.

A contingency plan should have included postponements. They just decided not to do that. Despite the fact that matches were taking place in typhoon season and historically when some of the strongest ones have occurred. And they knew this because they had already put it in the tournament rules for knockout games to be postponed.

BattleCorp

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yea.

Excellent rebuttal argument put forward there.

ittakestwo

Why don't they delay the Japan v Scotland match by a few hours till the typhoon has passed and play it behind closed doors so fans don't travel out in the typhoon to get to the match.

joseywhales

I will give partial credit, it looks like a massive typhoon but still are they closing every school in Japan that day?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

joseywhales wrote: »

I will give partial credit, it looks like a massive typhoon but still are they closing every school in Japan that day?

Yes, because Japanese schools don't open on Saturdays or Sundays.

jammiedodgers

George Lee is also on the way over.

Sabre0001

ittakestwo wrote: »

Why don't they delay the Japan v Scotland match by a few hours till the typhoon has passed and play it behind closed doors so fans don't travel out in the typhoon to get to the match.

A few hours likely won't cut it. This was posted in another thread and provides some context:

https://twitter.com/paulgrayson10/status/1182134236502867969

I still believe that travelling fans wouldn't be content to just sit in their hotel room if a game was played behind closed doors. And this is what a super typhoon can do (I imagine the rugby fans are the guy at 00:29):

https://twitter.com/Lovelyhoneybees/status/1182095382420963328

josip

Jaysus, imagine what that kind of wind could do to a stadium of kilts

joseywhales

jammiedodgers wrote: »

George Lee is also on the way over.

Forget that, send over the big gun:
Teresa mannion

Podge_irl

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I still believe that travelling fans wouldn't be content to just sit in their hotel room if a game was played behind closed doors. And this is what a super typhoon can do (I imagine the rugby fans are the guy at 00:29):

It doesn't really matter whether they would be content or not. They could play the match behind closed doors with no TV coverage if they want to make sure fans don't go to try and watch it. It would be preferable to what they've done.

Hermy

Podge_irl wrote: »

It doesn't really matter whether they would be content or not. They could play the match behind closed doors with no TV coverage if they want to make sure fans don't go to try and watch it. It would be preferable to what they've done.

How would the players get there?

salmocab

Hermy wrote: »

How would the players get there?

They had 3 days to get them there I’d imagine they could get the players almost anywhere on the planet in 3 days

Hermy

salmocab wrote: »

They had 3 days to get them there I’d imagine they could get the players almost anywhere on the planet in 3 days

But this is a massive typhoon that could wreck all the infrastructure before, during or after the match. What then?

Podge_irl

Hermy wrote: »

But this is a massive typhoon that could wreck all the infrastructure before, during or after the match. What then?

There are multiple matches in Japan still going ahead. Move the essential people to a stadium/any kind of pitch/any random bit of grass out of the path of the storm and play it there. Move them before the storm lands.

irishbucsfan

Hermy wrote: »

But this is a massive typhoon that could wreck all the infrastructure before, during or after the match. What then?

If it 'wrecks all the infrastructure' then it sounds like the tournament would be cancelled!

But that's not what they're expecting to happen. They haven't even cancelled Sunday's games yet. Ireland are playing in Fukuoka. There are other stadia in the South of Japan. Get them there, play the games, then let the typhoon pass and assess the aftermath while everyone is preparing for their scheduled quarter-finals

salmocab

Hermy wrote: »

But this is a massive typhoon that could wreck all the infrastructure before, during or after the match. What then?

What do you mean, what then? The matches could have been moved to a different stadium away from the path of the typhoon. It hasn’t arrived yet they could easily have moved the players if they had to. These tournaments have people running all the logistics on the ground.

padser

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are multiple matches in Japan still going ahead. Move the essential people to a stadium/any kind of pitch/any random bit of grass out of the path of the storm and play it there. Move them before the storm lands.

Yeah this doesnt seem difficult at all.

Transport systems up and running perfectly the day before the storm hit - so getting teams anywhere in Japan 24 hours before the game is easy.

There are loads of places in Japan which were not hit by the storm, any rugby pitch there will do.

irishbucsfan

padser wrote: »

Yeah this doesnt seem difficult at all.

Transport systems up and running perfectly the day before the storm hit - so getting teams anywhere in Japan 24 hours before the game is easy.

There are loads of places in Japan which were not hit by the storm, any rugby pitch there will do.

It would definitely be difficult and costly to just even maintain that kind of plan without ever even needing to enact it. You'd need to hold accommodation at every match venue in the off chance it might be used, for example. Then when enacting it they'd need to pay for all of the logistics of moving entire teams as well as pay for refunding tickets. I'd imagine there's some decision been made along the way that just straight-up refunding tickets and the embarrassing PR is worth it for World Rugby's bottom line.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It would definitely be difficult and costly to just even maintain that kind of plan without ever even needing to enact it. You'd need to hold accommodation at every match venue in the off chance it might be used, for example. Then when enacting it they'd need to pay for all of the logistics of moving entire teams as well as pay for refunding tickets. I'd imagine there's some decision been made along the way that just straight-up refunding tickets and the embarrassing PR is worth it for World Rugby's bottom line.

You could just have 2 back-up locations far apart from each other. Hell you would be as well off having one location in another nearby country.

I'm aware it wouldn't be straightforward. But cancelling matches is monumentally damaging to the tournament.

Eod100

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It would definitely be difficult and costly to just even maintain that kind of plan without ever even needing to enact it. You'd need to hold accommodation at every match venue in the off chance it might be used, for example. Then when enacting it they'd need to pay for all of the logistics of moving entire teams as well as pay for refunding tickets. I'd imagine there's some decision been made along the way that just straight-up refunding tickets and the embarrassing PR is worth it for World Rugby's bottom line.

For these 2 games I'd say yup. For Japan Scotland I'm not so sure but in fairness they have to be consistent with rules and still giving it a chance to go ahead. Think that was always the far significant game in terms of outcome, no disrespect to France or Italy.

martingriff

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If it 'wrecks all the infrastructure' then it sounds like the tournament would be cancelled!

But that's not what they're expecting to happen. They haven't even cancelled Sunday's games yet. Ireland are playing in Fukuoka. There are other stadia in the South of Japan. Get them there, play the games, then let the typhoon pass and assess the aftermath while everyone is preparing for their scheduled quarter-finals

How are you going to get the fans to the game?
Who will pay for the said transport?
Has it to be a Stadium of the same size?
Where will you accommodate said teams and players?
Who will pay for the 2nd stadiums readiness if needed?
What happens if there was no Typhoon as far as I am aware it is late in the season and just like hurricane it can just shift just like that?

The only senario that would be even possible but it would mean extending any World Cup it the game if possible be played 24 hours later.

What happens in other World Cup's (Soccers, Cricket, Rugby League) if a game is prosponed

Podge_irl

martingriff wrote: »

How are you going to get the fans to the game?

You wouldn’t. That resolves a number of the problems.

martingriff

Podge_irl wrote: »

You wouldn’t. That resolves a number of the problems.

Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

Podge_irl

martingriff wrote: »

Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

I don’t really believe that as not playing at all is no better for them.

padser

martingriff wrote: »

Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

Closed doors doesnt necessarily mean no TV....

sydthebeat

martingriff wrote: »

Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

Well that's 100% ball crap. Same as that claim earlier that the reason other venues weren't looked at because advertising hordes had been removed.

First off there's no way TV can be seen to have an influence on whether games are cancelled or not.
Second off they certainly would not choose no game ahead of a closed door game.
Third off, games can be broadcast on YouTube with little more than a handheld cam and WiFi connection, so I don't belive for one minute they couldn't set up a system in a safe relocation with enough notice.

One game behind closed doors would need no more than 100 people to organise, people who are already at a loose end because of the cancellations.

stephen_n

What if there is a typhoon for the final? Are we going to have a shared World Cup?

Weepsie

Remember this is a country which in the wake of massive natural disasters has enabled an set up emergency accommodation in a matter of hours. I don't think moving hordes of rugby fans would be that difficult if they had planned for it.

Like, it couldn't be done here, but if there's anywhere it could be done, it's there.

Postponement of all games for 24 hours is surely fairer all around, or why not have brought some of the games forward for the teams which have had at least 5/6 days off.

Cancelling them outright changes so much it's just creating any number of unfair things