Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

beejee

khalessi wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:I'll put that to the Board of Management on your behalf, maybe it can come under SPHE

That's the spirit! We'll meet tonight in a box of cornflakes and talk it over.

Project: Bunion has officially begun.

khalessi

beejee wrote: »

That's the spirit! We'll meet tonight in a box of cornflakes and talk it over.

Project: Bunion has officially begun.

Ill bring the cream and sugar

SusieBlue

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Snitches get stitches

So what exactly do you want, what would be your solution?

Children spend more time at school than nearly anywhere else. All children deserve to learn in a safe, healthy environment.

Are you saying children with allergies should be sacrificed and offered up as collateral damage just because severe allergies are more common now than in the past?

Do you think that children dying needless, preventable deaths will somehow reduce the amount of annual diagnoses?
Because it won’t, and even if it might, it’s not a risk worth taking. I’m really struggling to see wat your objective is here.

Allowing nuts in schools will do nothing but add more stress & work to teachers who will have to monitor lunchboxes & hover over the effected children. It will cause anxiety for the children with allergies.
And it’s a given that children will suffer and possibly die.

So what’s to gain but unbanning them, really?
So that your little Johnny can enjoy some cashews with sandwich? Is it really worth that?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Tickers wrote: »

Your question doesn’t make any sense. “If my child wasn’t a vegan, something something, nut allergy, statistics”

Well, you’re tuned into the “Not making sense” frequency so you’d know. Thought I’d try it out. It’s kinda fun. I’m not sure if desperately wanting to be a WUM is worth looking stupid for though but you do you.

decky1 wrote: »

At what stage did this Nut Allergy thing start? when i was in school 40+ kids to a class with 6 classes [Primary School] and not one of these kids had a nut allergy, maybe we were too busy enjoying our childhood and not stuck in front of the tele etc, maybe if the kids now got up and went out to play climb trees [oh no they might fall ] start acting like children again maybe this Nut Allergy might pass.

How would you know that? I was in a class of 18 in primary school and just about knew them all. In bigger classes and the school as a whole and with incoming new students every year, I don’t know how you’d know whether anyone had allergies. Especially if there was less awareness of it back in the day. Just because you never witnessed an allergy flare up, that doesn’t mean people with allergies didn’t attend your school.

cj maxx

If people are going to die because of it , it's probably best to avoid it.
Be a treat for them to come home to nuts.

cj maxx

cjmc wrote: »

If people are going to die because of it , it's probably best to avoid it.
Be a treat for them to come home to nuts.

Mammys are probably saying me too to that

v638sg7k1a92bx

SusieBlue wrote: »

So what exactly do you want, what would be your solution?

Children spend more time at school than nearly anywhere else. All children deserve to learn in a safe, healthy environment.

Are you saying children with allergies should be sacrificed and offered up as collateral damage just because severe allergies are more common now than in the past?

Do you think that children dying needless, preventable deaths will somehow reduce the amount of annual diagnoses?
Because it won’t, and even if it might, it’s not a risk worth taking. I’m really struggling to see wat your objective is here.

Allowing nuts in schools will do nothing but add more stress & work to teachers who will have to monitor lunchboxes & hover over the effected children. It will cause anxiety for the children with allergies.
And it’s a given that children will suffer and possibly die.

So what’s to gain but unbanning them, really?
So that your little Johnny can enjoy some cashews with sandwich? Is it really worth that?

His name is not Johnnie, it’s Fionnan.

sbsquarepants

Of course they should be banned - the risks are small undoubtedly, but why take even a small risk with the life of a child when it's so easily avoidable and causes such little disruption?

I do think the whole safety first things has gone too far when you see things like no running in the yard and so on, but kids need to play - they don't need to eat nuts, during school hours.

All my kids love peanuts, but the family next door have a cousin who visits regularly and they can kill her. It would be madness to put her life at risk just so my kids don't have to restrict their peanut eating to the 18 or so hours a day they aren't actually in the school room!

Supercell

Hoestly surprised that 44% of people voting here think its ok to bring nuts in. Why stop there, why not allow knives and guns, sure my kid is perfectly safe with them, would you still say thats grand "the school, children and parents should accomodate"?

Reminds me of the anti-vaxxers geting up in arms about schools potentially insisiting that pupils get their MMR vaccinations or the kid stays at home. Same thing, why should you put anyone at risk because some selfish parent thinks that whaterver they want for their kid overrides the safety needs of every other kid.

For what its worth, I do have a nut allergy and am in my 40's and it was great craic back in the day when the kid beside me in lunch break was eating a peanut butter sambo or the canteen ocassionally decided to serve food that had nuts in it with no warnings, fun times. No internet or social media in those days, the reason nobody knew/cared about it was kids like me just suffered or died, the end, no social media outcry, better times, not.
SMH.

suicide_circus

i can see it from both sides.

why cant nut consumption be kept off school grounds? hardly an arduous ask.

on the other hand, if i have a dangerous disorder its me that has to modify my behaviour, not try to make the world change for me.

Raconteuse

suicide_circus wrote: »

i can see it from both sides.

why cant nut consumption be kept off school grounds? hardly an arduous ask.

on the other hand, if i have a dangerous disorder its me that has to modify my behaviour, not try to make the world change for me.

Yeah avoid restaurants that serve dishes containing nuts etc but that's not really relevant to a child with a nut allergy who has to go to school.

iamwhoiam

suicide_circus wrote: »

i can see it from both sides.

why cant nut consumption be kept off school grounds? hardly an arduous ask.

on the other hand, if i have a dangerous disorder its me that has to modify my behaviour, not try to make the world change for me.

Can I just ask how you suggest a child with a nut allergy modifies his behaviour in a class room if another child has nuts in his lunch box ?

iamwhoiam

It actually mind blowing to think that some people still believe their child is so entitled to his rights that he cant be without nuts for 5/6 hours !! So the child should be allowed bring in nuts and endanger another child because his daft parents think he is somehow missing out because he cant eat a nut for 5 hours . !!

I am guessing if this was put to a child and explained about the danger that the child would be far more willing than some posters here to refrain from eating nuts for a few hours .
I have seen it in Junior Infants myself where the little children are very aware and keep their little friend safe and make sure they have no nuts or nut spreads . Its called teaching empathy and luckily all the parents and the teacher are very good at that explaining that message

Greyfox

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Can I just ask how you suggest a child with a nut allergy modifies his behaviour in a class room if another child has nuts in his lunch box ?

Primary school they should be banned. But if it's a classroom of age 15/16 the teenager should understand the eating nuts can kill them.

Backstreet Moyes

SusieBlue wrote: »

So what exactly do you want, what would be your solution?

Children spend more time at school than nearly anywhere else. All children deserve to learn in a safe, healthy environment.

Are you saying children with allergies should be sacrificed and offered up as collateral damage just because severe allergies are more common now than in the past?

Do you think that children dying needless, preventable deaths will somehow reduce the amount of annual diagnoses?
Because it won’t, and even if it might, it’s not a risk worth taking. I’m really struggling to see wat your objective is here.

Allowing nuts in schools will do nothing but add more stress & work to teachers who will have to monitor lunchboxes & hover over the effected children. It will cause anxiety for the children with allergies.
And it’s a given that children will suffer and possibly die.

So what’s to gain but unbanning them, really?
So that your little Johnny can enjoy some cashews with sandwich? Is it really worth that?

I would be amazed if he/she has a kid and if he/she had a kid who developed an allergy to nuts that opinion would change very quickly

CJhaughey

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would be amazed if he/she has a kid and if he/she had a kid who developed an allergy to nuts that opinion would change very quickly

There was a case like this in Australia in 2004-5
Mum was enrolling kids in school, Kid was severely peanut allergic, mother asked if the school would be able to implement a no-peanut policy.
School put it to the committee and another mum kicked up about it.
"My sons diet is being affected, this is all nonsense etc" just like on here.

Mum who initially asked about the no peanut ban, just went away and found another school that would be able to accommodate her and her child.

The mother who kicked up stink went on to have another child with a severe peanut allergy, tried to enroll said child in the same school and implement a no-nut policy herself after belatedly realising that life is not easy for allergy sufferer, instant justice served.

It's what people need to understand, its not a fad diet its a life changing condition, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lumping all kids with allergies into homeschooling is not a viable option.

The UK has already seen some criminal prosecutions against unscrupulous takeaway owners that have killed people with shoddy allergen management.
These led to jail time here and here

To my knowledge there hasn't been a case taken like this in Ireland...yet.

But if a parent sent a child to school with nuts when they have signed an enrolment form that most likely states they will follow the school policy on various matters and another child is injured, brain damaged or killed through that parents negligence or malicious flouting of the rules I wouldn't bet on a civil case not being taken.

v638sg7k1a92bx

CJhaughey wrote: »

There was a case like this in Australia in 2004-5
Mum was enrolling kids in school, Kid was severely peanut allergic, mother asked if the school would be able to implement a no-peanut policy.
School put it to the committee and another mum kicked up about it.
"My sons diet is being affected, this is all nonsense etc" just like on here.

Mum who initially asked about the no peanut ban, just went away and found another school that would be able to accommodate her and her child.

The mother who kicked up stink went on to have another child with a severe peanut allergy, tried to enroll said child in the same school and implement a no-nut policy herself after belatedly realising that life is not easy for allergy sufferer, instant justice served.

It's what people need to understand, its not a fad diet its a life changing condition, just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lumping all kids with allergies into homeschooling is not a viable option.

The UK has already seen some criminal prosecutions against unscrupulous takeaway owners that have killed people with shoddy allergen management.
These led to jail time here and here

To my knowledge there hasn't been a case taken like this in Ireland...yet.

But if a parent sent a child to school with nuts when they have signed an enrolment form that most likely states they will follow the school policy on various matters and another child is injured, brain damaged or killed through that parents negligence or malicious flouting of the rules I wouldn't bet on a civil case not being taken.

You could bet and you would lose.

You do realise that you are the one asking other parents to accommodate your needs, not the other way around? A little gratitude would be nice.

v638sg7k1a92bx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It actually mind blowing to think that some people still believe their child is so entitled to his rights that he cant be without nuts for 5/6 hours !! So the child should be allowed bring in nuts and endanger another child because his daft parents think he is somehow missing out because he cant eat a nut for 5 hours . !!

I am guessing if this was put to a child and explained about the danger that the child would be far more willing than some posters here to refrain from eating nuts for a few hours .
I have seen it in Junior Infants myself where the little children are very aware and keep their little friend safe and make sure they have no nuts or nut spreads . Its called teaching empathy and luckily all the parents and the teacher are very good at that explaining that message

Blows my mind that you feel so entitled to expect everyone to adapt to your circumstances and not show a single morsel of gratitude to the parents who accommodate you. Quite the opposite in fact, you want to inflict punishment on parents who don't agree with your made up rules.

v638sg7k1a92bx

To all the parents who have kids with nut allergies. Have you ever been to a restaurant with your kids and if so did you lean over to the other table and ask the other diners not eat nuts.

Funny how some of the posters on this thread are the same people who then snipe at vegans on other threads.

This whole nut allergy thing is a complete nonsense.

iamwhoiam

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Blows my mind that you feel so entitled to expect everyone to adapt to your circumstances and not show a single morsel of gratitude to the parents who accommodate you. Quite the opposite in fact, you want to inflict punishment on parents who don't agree with your made up rules.

Hahaha . Its not my child with the allergy !!! You are a scream with your windups :D:D

v638sg7k1a92bx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Hahaha . Its not my child with the allergy !!! You are a scream with your windups :D:D

Ok then your favourite nephew who "is like a son to me"

Princess Calla

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

You could bet and you would lose.

You do realise that you are the one asking other parents to accommodate your needs, not the other way around? A little gratitude would be nice.

I don't know if they would lose tbh. It would definitely be a test case for sure.

Probably worthy of its own thread in legal discussion.

There has already been a €9,000 award paid out to a student as the school wouldn't handle the childs necessary medication.

iamwhoiam

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Ok then your favourite nephew who "is like a son to me"

His mother , who I do not know actually, has send a text to every single childs family thanking them for being so kind and empathetic and teaching the kids about the issue

SusieBlue

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

To all the parents who have kids with nut allergies. Have you ever been to a restaurant with your kids and if so did you lean over to the other table and ask the other diners not eat nuts.

Funny how some of the posters on this thread are the same people who then snipe at vegans on other threads.

This whole nut allergy thing is a complete nonsense.

Children do not have the same knowledge or cop on to know which products contain nuts and which don't, which might mean two schoolkids innocently sharing a snack could be catastrophic if one of them had an allergy.

Your restaurant example is irrelevant.
Is sharing food with random children something you routinely engage in when you eat out? Its not something I've ever come across so I'm not sure why there would be an issue with a stranger two tables away ordering a nut dish.

A better example to suit your narrative would be a person with an allergy showing up to a restaurant & demanding all nut products and traces were removed from the kitchen and menu just to accommodate them.
That would be unreasonable if it happened, but it doesn't.

beejee

A program to successfully ban nuts from schools ain't gonna happen.

I remember a school of mine tried to ban crisps, all adults behind it. Abject failure, because children are invariably going to get their hands on easily available snacks if they want.

You can certainly explain to the children what to look out for with regard an allergic attack, but that's about it.

daveorourke77

Chicks were allergic to my nuts in school.

v638sg7k1a92bx

SusieBlue wrote: »

A better example to suit your narrative would be a person with an allergy showing up to a restaurant & demanding all nut products and traces were removed from the kitchen and menu just to accommodate them.
That would be unreasonable if it happened, but it doesn't.

But this is what you're doing. Turning up at the school and demanding that nobody give their children nuts.

SusieBlue

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

But this is what you're doing. Turning up at the school and demanding that nobody give their children nuts.

Yes, because children cannot be trusted or expected to know which products do or don't contain nuts, and its an unfair responsibility to put on both the child with the allergy and other children, who my share their food and unwittingly end up killing their classmate!

Parents are supervising their children in restaurants so they are responsible for ensuring their kids don't ingest anything they are allergic to.

In school there can be up to 30 kids under the supervision of one adult/teacher. The risk is too big that the child could come into contact with the thing they're allergic to...Its an unfair burden to put on the kids & the teacher.

The responsible thing to do is an outright ban to protect EVERYONE, including the children without any allergies.

Alexandria Quick Doughnut

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

To all the parents who have kids with nut allergies. Have you ever been to a restaurant with your kids and if so did you lean over to the other table and ask the other diners not eat nuts.

Funny how some of the posters on this thread are the same people who then snipe at vegans on other threads.

This whole nut allergy thing is a complete nonsense.

You show quite the level of motivated ignorance. Calling out something well documented and demonstrable as nonsense is bizarre.

Raconteuse

Something potentially lethal is a load of nonsense?

Ok it's obvious what Tickers is up to here.

Treppen

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

As I said, there are nuts in many foods but you can go ahead and keep calling me ignorant.

There are also not nuts in many other foods.

Treppen

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

To all the parents who have kids with nut allergies. Have you ever been to a restaurant with your kids and if so did you lean over to the other table and ask the other diners not eat nuts.

Funny how some of the posters on this thread are the same people who then snipe at vegans on other threads.

This whole nut allergy thing is a complete nonsense.

You said you could be called ignorant so I'm going to invoke that at risk of a paddling....

You
Are
Ignorant

khalessi

beejee wrote: »

A program to successfully ban nuts from schools ain't gonna happen.

I remember a school of mine tried to ban crisps, all adults behind it. Abject failure, because children are invariably going to get their hands on easily available snacks if they want.

You can certainly explain to the children what to look out for with regard an allergic attack, but that's about it.

Crisps can banned under healthy eating policy and peanuts have been successfully banned in schools due to health and safety.

Elemonator

Of course they should be banned.

I have a cousin and two friends with nut allergies and if they are exposed to nuts they will die. On the balance between death and some kid who wants nuts for lunch, I'd say the argument is tilted quite obviously in favour of the obvious choice.

v638sg7k1a92bx

khalessi wrote: »

Crisps can banned under healthy eating policy and peanuts have been successfully banned in schools due to health and safety.

Nuts and crips have been banned in schools just like drugs have been banned in prison.

You’re talking absolute nonsense.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Elemonator wrote: »

Of course they should be banned.

I have a cousin and two friends with nut allergies and if they are exposed to nuts they will die. On the balance between death and some kid who wants nuts for lunch, I'd say the argument is tilted quite obviously in favour of the obvious choice.

Judging by the personal anecdotes on this thread, you be would be led to believe that half the primary school population had nut allergies.

v638sg7k1a92bx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

His mother , who I do not know actually, has send a text to every single childs family thanking them for being so kind and empathetic and teaching the kids about the issue

Another example of something that never happened. How did she get all their numbers. Rubbish. .

iamwhoiam

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Another example of something that never happened. How did she get all their numbers. Rubbish. .

Actually it did happen . Do not call me a liar . The class have a group whatsapp and communicate often
Do you know something ? I don’t give a toss what you think or say . You are pathetic

v638sg7k1a92bx

SusieBlue wrote: »

Children do not have the same knowledge or cop on to know which products contain nuts and which don't, which might mean two schoolkids innocently sharing a snack could be catastrophic if one of them had an allergy.

Your restaurant example is irrelevant.
Is sharing food with random children something you routinely engage in when you eat out? Its not something I've ever come across so I'm not sure why there would be an issue with a stranger two tables away ordering a nut dish.

A better example to suit your narrative would be a person with an allergy showing up to a restaurant & demanding all nut products and traces were removed from the kitchen and menu just to accommodate them.
That would be unreasonable if it happened, but it doesn't.

For the last twenty pages you’ve been babbling on about dangerous and airborne nut allergies and even the slightest whiff would send little previous into shock, but as long as you can go to Mount Merrion cafe all bets are off because there are adults there. So you’ve no problem putting other people out when it doesn’t impact you but as long as you can go to your favourite restaurant then it’s fine?

v638sg7k1a92bx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Actually it did happen . Do not call me a liar . The class have a group whatsapp and communicate often
Do you know something ? I don’t give a toss what you think or say . You are pathetic

Every single child’s family? Not true.

Alexandria Quick Doughnut

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Another example of something that never happened. How did she get all their numbers. Rubbish. .

When I was growing up there were class contact details held by one parent so others could get in touch with each other re birthday invites etc. These days there are probably WhatsApp groups and/or email details shared.

You really are clutching at straws to support your ill-informed views.

iamwhoiam

Candie wrote: »

When I was growing up there were class contact details held by one parent so others could get in touch with each other re birthday invites etc. These days there are probably WhatsApp groups and/or email details shared.

You really are clutching at straws to support your ill-informed views.

All classes in the Junior school here have a group whatsapp . They communicate things like if one child has an infectious disease or about the teachers present etc . I believe it’s quite common now to do so
The mother of the child with allergies sent a lovely message on the group whatsapp thanking the children for looking after her son and the parents for being so vigilant in protecting him

v638sg7k1a92bx

Candie wrote: »

When I was growing up there were class contact details held by one parent so others could get in touch with each other re birthday invites etc. These days there are probably WhatsApp groups and/or email details shared.

You really are clutching at straws to support your ill-informed views.

Every single parent? Wrong.

v638sg7k1a92bx

iamwhoiam wrote: »

All classes in the Junior school here have a group whatsapp . They communicate things like if one child has an infectious disease or about the teachers present etc . I believe it’s quite common now to do so
The mother of the child with allergies sent a lovely message on the group whatsapp thanking the children for looking after her son and the parents for being so vigilant in protecting him

A text to a WhatsApp group. Where did she find the time.

Btw, not every parent uses or wants to be included in those WhatsApp groups

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

All classes in the Junior school here have a group whatsapp . They communicate things like if one child has an infectious disease or about the teachers present etc . I believe it’s quite common now to do so
The mother of the child with allergies sent a lovely message on the group whatsapp thanking the children for looking after her son and the parents for being so vigilant in protecting him

That's what people can do for others and is a great example to the other kids in the school who learn about putting others first and caring as a wider society, if even in just a small way. Everyone benefits in one way or another, it really is a learning experience for all the other kids. Nice that the mum was so appreciative too.

People who consider life-saving measures that constitute a very minor inconvenience in order to protect a child too much of an imposition will never change. I doubt they can.

iamwhoiam

Candie wrote: »

That's what people can do for others and is a great example to the other kids in the school who learn about putting others first and caring as a wider society, if even in just a small way. Everyone benefits in one way or another, it really is a learning experience for all the other kids. Nice that the mum was so appreciative too.

People who consider life-saving measures that constitute a very minor inconvenience in order to protect a child too much of an imposition will never change. I doubt they can.

The teacher was super and used it to teach the kids empathy and solidarity . It was a great learning curve for them . The younger they learn I guess the better chance of being a considerate adult . We were so proud of the little kids in the class how they circled the wagons around to protect him !

Alexandria Quick Doughnut

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Every single parent? Wrong.

You seem to want to believe that people can't manage these things because they have resentful attitudes like yours. Thankfully, most people are able to endure a tiny inconvenience to keep a child safe. It's not that hard to get your head around, surely?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Are @candic and @iamwhoiam just liking each other’s posts at this stage?

SusieBlue

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

For the last twenty pages you’ve been babbling on about dangerous and airborne nut allergies and even the slightest whiff would send little previous into shock, but as long as you can go to Mount Merrion cafe all bets are off because there are adults there. So you’ve no problem putting other people out when it doesn’t impact you but as long as you can go to your favourite restaurant then it’s fine?

A friend has a nut free office because one of her colleagues has a severe allergy. None of her colleagues mind and everyone makes concessions because they recognize that their colleague not dying is more important than their desire for a few peanuts.
When you have a mature, compassionate attitude, whether you are an adult or a child, wonderful things can happen.
You might want to take note.

khalessi

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Nuts and crips have been banned in schools just like drugs have been banned in prison.

You’re talking absolute nonsense.

Just because you dont agree doesnt make it nonsense and comparing nuts to drugs is interesting because both can kill people with a sensitivity to them, so correctly they are banned