Would flashing high level brake light be legal in Ireland?

Dravokivich

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't really read the whole thread, but it's not illegal to the best of my knowledge.

I can't recall where I had seen it, but other than emergency vehicles, or slow vehicles with flashing amber lights, the only road user permitted to have constant flashing lights is a cyclist.

FishOnABike

There is the possibility that flashing brake lights might cause the person behind to think someone was feathering the brakes rather than applying them solidly.

If you're braking solid a solid red brake light is more intuitive. It's also almost universal. The slight wtf moment to figure out some other brake light display could be counterproductive.

grogi

FishOnABike wrote: »

There is the possibility that flashing brake lights might cause the person behind to think someone was feathering the brakes rather than applying them solidly.

If you're braking solid a solid red brake light is more intuitive. It's also almost universal. The slight wtf moment to figure out some other brake light display could be counterproductive.

If the light is on for 90% of time (exp. on for 0.23 sec, off for 0.02 sec), there would be absolutely no additional confusion.

What's more, it is legal. The key document here is E/ECE/324 E/ECE/TRANS/505, Addendum 47, Regulation No. 48 (revision 9), point 6.23.

mikeecho

Dravokivich wrote: »

I can't recall where I had seen it, but other than emergency vehicles, or slow vehicles with flashing amber lights, the only road user permitted to have constant flashing lights is a cyclist.

A cyclist is required to have a steady light.
If a cyclist has a flashing light, it is in addition to the steady light.

lawred2

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

here is the specs of the one off ebay - strobe 3 times , flash 3 times, then constantly light. i dare say if you were a bit handy with electronics and a soldering iron you could just crack open the case of it and convert it to just flash 3 times and then steady.



in any case, what I tend to do in gridlock traffic any way is take my foot off the brake and put the handbrake on anyway if i am stuck for an amount of time. I thought everyone did . maybe not people with automatic transmission cars but i havent driven an auto car for over 30 years so i dunno what you are supposed to do then

and what's the difference between strobe and flash?

Marlow

DaDumTish wrote: »

also

https://www.dumpert.nl/item/7770235_af69ec60

Dravokivich wrote: »

I can't recall where I had seen it, but other than emergency vehicles, or slow vehicles with flashing amber lights, the only road user permitted to have constant flashing lights is a cyclist.

Erhh ... no .. those flashing lights, that cyclists use are illegal for that purpose ... EU wide. Solid light front and back. Flashing is not allowed ...

Those flashing lights is another reason, why cyclist are hated so much. Their ignorance.

/M

lawred2

Marlow wrote: »

Erhh ... no .. those flashing lights, that cyclists use are illegal for that purpose ... EU wide. Solid light front and back. Flashing is not allowed ...

Those flashing lights is another reason, why cyclist are hated so much. Their ignorance.

/M

by you?

Dravokivich

Marlow wrote: »

Erhh ... no .. those flashing lights, that cyclists use are illegal for that purpose ... EU wide. Solid light front and back. Flashing is not allowed ...

Those flashing lights is another reason, why cyclist are hated so much. Their ignorance.

/M

A small steady light does not give a reference for distance. A flashing light does.

kirving

Dravokivich wrote: »

A small steady light does not give a reference for distance. A flashing light does.

I don't think that's necessarily true, although I would still favour flashing over solid.

A flashing light will grab attention more quickly among steady car lights, and also because an LED can be driven to strobe at a higher intensity than it could maintain if solid. Heat dissipation is an issue with small LED's, as is battery life.

A light that is at 100% output for 20% of the time, at the right frequency, will appear more powerful than a light at 20% output for 100% of the time, despite both using the same amount of energy over a given time.

The same idea, but in the 100's of Hertz range is used in TV's and phone screens to make them appear as bright, but use less power.

Marlow

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A flashing light will grab attention more quickly among steady car lights

And THAT is exactly the problem. Everyone tries to grab more attention.

Cyclists driving around with flashing lights.

Van drivers using orange flashing beacons, when there is no need for them (they should only be used, when stationary, to indicate, that work force is on the road).

And I could go on.

Trying to grab the attention by doing something different takes focus from overall attention to traffic and creates dangers. Sensory overload is the result of this.

When overused, like road works signage, when no roadworks are active, it leads to people ignoring them entirely eventually. Which is counter productive.

If everyone uses steady lights, the driver can differentiate between the elements in traffic and make his own educated estimate, what the correct approach is. The way it should be. Flashing is for indication, hazards and warnings. End off.

/M

Marlow

lawred2 wrote: »

by you?

I have no problem with cyclists, as long as they adhere to traffic rules like anyone else.

What I do see .. on a daily base in traffic is:
- flashing lights (not legal)
- cyclists cyling against traffic on the wrong side of the road
- cyclists ignoring traffic lights
- cyclists on motorways .. where they are not allowed to be.

Just to give some examples .. and those are not the exception. It would not be a problem, if they were.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Dravokivich wrote: »

I can't recall where I had seen it, but other than emergency vehicles, or slow vehicles with flashing amber lights, the only road user permitted to have constant flashing lights is a cyclist.

shame you cannot recall or have a link

Andy From Sligo

FishOnABike wrote: »

There is the possibility that flashing brake lights might cause the person behind to think someone was feathering the brakes rather than applying them solidly.

If you're braking solid a solid red brake light is more intuitive. It's also almost universal. The slight wtf moment to figure out some other brake light display could be counterproductive.

The only light that would flash is the high level brake light. above the rear window and even after that (I think 3 flashes it would become static). - if a person's reactions that you cannot realise that the lower proper brake lights are static then maybe that person should not even be on the road.

Andy From Sligo

grogi wrote: »

If the light is on for 90% of time (exp. on for 0.23 sec, off for 0.02 sec), there would be absolutely no additional confusion.

What's more, it is legal. The key document here is E/ECE/324 E/ECE/TRANS/505, Addendum 47, Regulation No. 48 (revision 9), point 6.23.

thanks I will have a read

Andy From Sligo

lawred2 wrote: »

and what's the difference between strobe and flash?

I think strobe is really fast flashing, like flickering. And Flash is like 'on/off'
(on 1sec off 1sec)

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Erhh ... no .. those flashing lights, that cyclists use are illegal for that purpose ... EU wide. Solid light front and back. Flashing is not allowed ...

Those flashing lights is another reason, why cyclist are hated so much. Their ignorance.

/M

its when cyclist have no lights whatsoever that I hate .. I have no problem with flashing lights on the rear of their bike.

We have some eejits going round on those scooters now (the electric ones you stand on) , and on the road after dark and no lights - pure madness

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

its when cyclist have no lights whatsoever that I hate .. I have no problem with flashing lights on the rear of their bike.

We have some eejits going round on those scooters now (the electric ones you stand on) , and on the road after dark and no lights - pure madness

In other countries ... if stopped by the police .. that will impact on your driving license .. or your future driving license. In the form of a ban, penalty points and fines.

So will flashing lights on bicycles, driving on the wrong side of the road against traffic and driving a bike while drunk.

Unfortunately there is no real enforcement here. Too much paperwork .. lets just focus on speeding and cars that have no tax.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

And THAT is exactly the problem. Everyone tries to grab more attention.

Cyclists driving around with flashing lights.

Van drivers using orange flashing beacons, when there is no need for them (they should only be used, when stationary, to indicate, that work force is on the road).

And I could go on.

Trying to grab the attention by doing something different takes focus from overall attention to traffic and creates dangers. Sensory overload is the result of this.

When overused, like road works signage, when no roadworks are active, it leads to people ignoring them entirely eventually. Which is counter productive.

If everyone uses steady lights, the driver can differentiate between the elements in traffic and make his own educated estimate, what the correct approach is. The way it should be. Flashing is for indication, hazards and warnings. End off.

/M

if a flashing high level bake light is not a warning / pre-warning / more noticeable warning to someone drivinga distance away from you that you have stopped then I dont know what is - especiall in fog or in a brighter day where otherwise you might not know if the brake lights were on or off, I reckon they would be much more noticeable flashing than static !

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

if a flashing high level bake light is not a warning / pre-warning / more noticeable warning to someone drivinga distance away from you that you have stopped then I dont know what is - especiall in fog or in a brighter day where otherwise you might not know if the brake lights were on or off, I reckon they would be much more noticeable flashing than static !

Correct. But only to be applied at harsh braking. Not every braking situation warrants it. Otherwise you again have sensory overload, which leads to ignorance.

Everything has to be taken with moderation and not every change is always for the good.

For example, while the third brake light was a real good thing to introduce, it has put older vehicles and vehicles towing trailers at bigger risks, because some drivers now have the tendency to overlook brake lights, if they do not see the third one.

My camping trailer nearly got rear ended by somebody this summer, because he did not pay attention to me braking. He literally had to swerve into the turning lane and ended up half way past the trailer ... all of that in a 50 zone.

And yes .. all my lights were fully functional.

Basically some drivers get so reliant on these new signals, that they can not cope in traffic anymore, when they don't have them.

/M

GM228

grogi wrote: »

If the light is on for 90% of time (exp. on for 0.23 sec, off for 0.02 sec), there would be absolutely no additional confusion.

What's more, it is legal. The key document here is E/ECE/324 E/ECE/TRANS/505, Addendum 47, Regulation No. 48 (revision 9), point 6.23.

Just to be clear, that applies to emergency braking only, otherwise a flashing light is not legal on any vehicle (with the exception of cyclists and emergency vehicle, road work vehicles etc).

mikeecho wrote: »

A cyclist is required to have a steady light.
If a cyclist has a flashing light, it is in addition to the steady light.

Marlow wrote: »

Erhh ... no .. those flashing lights, that cyclists use are illegal for that purpose ... EU wide. Solid light front and back. Flashing is not allowed ...

Those flashing lights is another reason, why cyclist are hated so much. Their ignorance.

Cyclists can have either a steady lit light or a flashing light, so long as it flashes not less than 60 times in each minutute it is not illegal.

Road traffic law is my speciality and I'll dig out the relevant provisions later for those who want them.

Marlow

GM228 wrote: »

Cyclists can have either a steady lit light or a flashing light, so long as it flashes not less than 60 times in each minutute it is not illegal.

Road traffic law is my speciality and I'll dig out the relevant provisions later for those who want them.

Is this an irish specific law ?

/M

GM228

Marlow wrote: »

Is this an irish specific law ?

/M

It is allowed for via national legislation.

Many EU countries allow it such as Ireland, the UK, Denmark, Belgium, and Poland