FTTH - No ports available?

Shyboy

I have had Eir FTTH for the past 3 years (Originally with Eir retail then switched to Digiweb) and all is good.

I rent out a house next door and the previous tenants that I had installed Eir FTTH about 18 months ago, but they decided to move out in July and cancelled the service just before they left.

So, I have new tenants now and they want to connect to FTTH. As FTTH is installed already and the ONT is on the wall, I just thought it would be easy for them just to sign up with Eir or any reseller?

So, they contacted Eir retail and gave the Eircode of the house. Eir say "sorry, we cannot install as there are no ports available". They explained that the house is already wired and was connected to FTTH up until 6 weeks ago, but they say they cannot provide service as the system says there are no ports available?

I have tried the Eircode on the Airwire checker, and yes, I get the message "no ports available" but when I also try my Eircode, I also get the same message, even though I have a working FTTH service?

Has anyone come across this issue before and if so, how can it be solved?

Thanks in advance.

thenightman

Someone must have signed up and taken the last available port in the exchange in between when your last tenants cancelled and new tenants signed up. Nothing much you can do really.

Shyboy

thenightman wrote: »

Someone must have signed up and taken the last available port in the exchange in between when your last tenants cancelled and new tenants signed up. Nothing much you can do really.

I would have thought that if it was FTTC, but I thought the ports were in the Fibre boxes on poles with FTTH, not the exchange?

Just to test it, I tried the eircode of my neighbour directly across the road, it is showing as available. If it was a port availability issue at the exchange, surely it would be unavailable for all of us?

thenightman

Might be on different exchanges.

plodder

It's hard to imagine that there has been many FTTH disconnections so far. Could just be "computer says no" as there shouldn't really be any physical "port" limitation.

Shyboy

thenightman wrote: »

Might be on different exchanges.

No, definitely the same exchange. We are in a very rural area and the same exchange serves for miles around.

Shyboy

The house in question is connected to FTTH via the DP box outside our home, the same one we are connected to, plus two of my neighbours (four in total).

Could it be that this box is full? But if that is the issue, this house is already one of these connections, not a new connection?

tsue921i8wljb3

You had this issue in 2018. How was it resolved then?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057908863

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

You had this issue in 2018. How was it resolved then?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057908863

Hi Navi,

Yes, another neighbour two doors away had an issue last year when trying to connect from scratch and I think gave up in the end and never had it installed?

This time it is slightly different as this property has FTTH all installed from the previous tenants and connected to the DP (I assume it is the DP outside our house, but there is another one across the road which it may be connected to instead?) but system won't let them order as no ports available?

tuxy

Is it possible that the OLT back at the exchange is where there is a lack of ports?

tsue921i8wljb3

It's a known issue and has been reported before for example here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108178505&postcount=3601

That poster tried several neighbours Eircodes and those who had FTTH installed were getting that message.

The issue you have is finding someone to fix it. To be honest there is no point talking to the large ISPs about it. You'll never get anywhere with them. Try some of the smaller providers who should be able to interface with open eir as it's them that need to fix it.

There is also the chance that the split you're on is full but to be honest I think that is remote. Either way the smaller ISPs should be able to tell you.

ED E

The 31 logical ports on the OLT may be consumed, especially in an area with few decent alternatives.

Shyboy

So, my tenants have contacted a number of ISP's about trying to get FTTH and they are getting the "system says no ports available" answer from them all.

They have tried to explain that the installation is in the house from the previous tenants and is all connected up to the DP box outside, but they are not getting anywhere, they are told that there is no port available?

I popped down to them this evening and plugged in the GPON Device which is still there from the previous tenants and interestingly the PON light comes on solid green. (photo attached)

This would make me think that is still connected to the exchange? If there was no port would this still happen?

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy wrote: »

So, my tenants have contacted a number of ISP's about trying to get FTTH and they are getting the "system says no ports available" answer from them all.

They have tried to explain that the installation is in the house from the previous tenants and is all connected up to the DP box outside, but they are not getting anywhere, they are told that there is no port available?

I popped down to them this evening and plugged in the GPON Device which is still there from the previous tenants and interestingly the PON light comes on solid green. (photo attached)

This would make me think that is still connected to the exchange? If there was no port would this still happen?

Yes, it is still connected. This is obviously an open eir issue. I don't know how you're going to contact them though. Which ISPs were contacted out of interest?

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

Yes, it is still connected. This is obviously an open eir issue. I don't know how you're going to contact them though. Which ISPs were contacted out of interest?

Just spoke to them. They tell me that they firstly contacted Eir and Sky, but also tried Pure and Digiweb.

It seems Digiweb (I think?) went away and spoke to OpenEir (so they said), but came back to confirm that the port from the previous tenants must have been given away after the left the property?

But if that was the case, sure the PON light would not be on?

tsue921i8wljb3

There is a possibility that would allow that to happen i.e. be connected to PON but no ports. It's to do with what ED E says about logical ports. I personally don't believe the network has been designed that way but I guess it's possible.

Was the ONT left off for a long period of time? I wonder would that have anything to do with it.

Could you try contacting Airwire?

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

There is a possibility that would allow that to happen i.e. be connected to PON but no ports. It's to do with what ED E says about logical ports. I personally don't believe the network has been designed that way but I guess it's possible.

Was the ONT left off for a long period of time? I wonder would that have anything to do with it.

Could you try contacting Airwire?

Yes, the ONT would have been off since the last tenants left, which was July.

I had just thought the same about them contacting Airwire. I remember a few of the Airwire guys used to be active on this forum, so I will tell the tenants to give them a call.

Also, the other odd thing is that the houses on the other side of the road, connected to another DP box (we seem to have a DP box every few metres) don't get the "no ports available" message on the Airwire checker and we are all connected to the same little exchange up the road.

Cheers Navi!!

ED E

Shyboy wrote: »

Also, the other odd thing is that the houses on the other side of the road, connected to another DP box (we seem to have a DP box every few metres) don't get the "no ports available" message on the Airwire checker and we are all connected to the same little exchange up the road.

Same exchange, different LT/Optic.

Each individual fiber has its own optic, this supports the customers on that span. So Cable A headed west from Exchange ABC may have four strands each with a capacity of 31. Each side of the road may be on its own run.


Your PON light isnt flashing, that means its registered and not rogue. The limitation is a commercial decision to preserve the products speed.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Same exchange, different LT/Optic.

Each individual fiber has its own optic, this supports the customers on that span. So Cable A headed west from Exchange ABC may have four strands each with a capacity of 31. Each side of the road may be on its own run.


Your PON light isnt flashing, that means its registered and not rogue. The limitation is a commercial decision to preserve the products speed.

Highly unlikely that two sides of the same rural road are on a different split. Can you post the document where you read about 31 as the split? Everything I've read from open eir mentions 32.

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

Highly unlikely that two sides of the same rural road are on a different split. Can you post the document where you read about 31 as the split? Everything I've read from open eir mentions 32.

Out of curiosity, I tried a house on the next DP 50 metres up the road on the same side, which follows onto our DP, and ports are available. Surely we are on the same split as this DP?

Shyboy

Shyboy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I tried a house on the next DP 50 metres up the road on the same side, which follows onto our DP, and ports are available. Surely we are on the same split as this DP?

I can understand if the system is saying that there is no space on the DP, as I think our one only has a capacity of four houses and there are four houses connected to it, but this house in question is one of those four houses?

tuxy

This is a really confusing one.
I know airwire are showing no ports are available but maybe they could have a word with open eir for you to finally figure out what's going on.

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, I tried a house on the next DP 50 metres up the road on the same side, which follows onto our DP, and ports are available. Surely we are on the same split as this DP?

Yeah. Nearly certain to be. I'm convinced this is some sort of bug in open eir but the issue is getting it rectified. There should be a serial number sticker on the ONT. Include that in any correspondence.

Jasper1965

Is it possible the serving box on the pole can serve 4 connections and it has 4 connections, so therefore cannot accept a 5th new connection
What might work is to migrate service at the relevant eircode and this might be a better approach by the service provider and should enable the service request to progress with openeir.

tsue921i8wljb3

Jasper1965 wrote: »

Is it possible the serving box on the pole can serve 4 connections and it has 4 connections, so therefore cannot accept a 5th new connection
What might work is to migrate service at the relevant eircode and this might be a better approach by the service provider and should enable the service request to progress with openeir.

It's not a new connection though. There is an existing fibre cable and ONT in the premises. There is no active subscription though.

Jasper1965

I understand that when the ONT is powered up, the PON light is on so would this indicate that the serial number of the ONT is registered to a service

tsue921i8wljb3

Jasper1965 wrote: »

I understand that when the ONT is powered up, the PON light is on so would this indicate that the serial number of the ONT is registered to a service

It is registered to the OLT in the exchange. There is no active internet connection on the line. The issue for the OP is that when trying to order a connection from a retail ISP that they are being refused. Something is breaking down either in open eir or between the retail ISP and open eir.

Jasper1965

The issue might be the OP is looking to order a new connection, whereas a service migration might be required as all 4 ports assigned. Subtle difference in how IT systems handle new service provision versus service migration.

tuxy

Jasper1965 wrote: »

The issue might be the OP is looking to order a new connection, whereas a service migration might be required as all 4 ports assigned. Subtle difference in how IT systems handle new service provision versus service migration.

Would a UAN be needed for a migration?
How would the UAN be obtained by the ISP?

tsue921i8wljb3

Jasper1965 wrote: »

The issue might be the OP is looking to order a new connection, whereas a service migration might be required as all 4 ports assigned. Subtle difference in how IT systems handle new service provision versus service migration.

Do you work for open eir or is this supposition on your part? How would the OP go about initiating a service migration when they don't have a service?

Jasper1965

Supposition on my behalf. Good starting point would be the 16 character hexadecimal serial number on the ONT. It should start with 48575443########
The 48 57 54 43 stand for H W T C

tsue921i8wljb3

ISPs have a facility for querying lines in Unified Gateway. I am unsure though if they can query lines where there is no service. It would be interesting to see if the line can be queried by ONT serial number and what it returns. I suspect most frontline customer service reps both in retail ISPs and open eir don't have much understanding of any of this. This is why when something goes wrong it is so difficult to rectify.

ED E

UG will only let an OLO query/test their "own" lines. Anything else and ALTO would have Eircom over the coals.

The exception is the APQ.

tsue921i8wljb3

That's unfortunate. Perhaps get an ISP to try ordering by ARD in UG instead of Eircode hoping that the Eircode check is the issue.

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

That's unfortunate. Perhaps get an ISP to try ordering by ARD in UG instead of Eircode hoping that the Eircode check is the issue.

Thanks guys for all of your help. I am certainly learning a lot here also.

I have asked the tenant to contact Airwire and to explain the situation as I am sure they will be far more knowledgeable than many of the sales staff he has spoken to at other isp's to date?

Sorry Navi, what is the ARD?

Do any of the Airwire guys be online on this forum? I wouldn't mind having a word with them to see if I could help the tenant with this to get to the bottom of it?

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy, do you still have the eir router from you previous time with them? I wonder did the cancellation not go through properly and the line has been left active. You could plug in the router and see if it connects.

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy wrote: »

Thanks guys for all of your help. I am certainly learning a lot here also.

I have asked the tenant to contact Airwire and to explain the situation as I am sure they will be far more knowledgeable than many of the sales staff he has spoken to at other isp's to date?

Sorry Navi, what is the ARD?

Do any of the Airwire guys be online on this forum? I wouldn't mind having a word with them to see if I could help the tenant with this to get to the bottom of it?

ARD is the Address Reference Database (I think it stands for), the internal identifier used by open eir to identify premises.

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

Shyboy, do you still have the eir router from you previous time with them? I wonder did the cancellation not go through properly and the line has been left active. You could plug in the router and see if it connects.

That thought exactly went through my mind earlier would u believe, Navi, but I had to return the router to Eir when I switched to Digiweb?

A neighbour across the road has one though that I might be able to borrow?

Jasper1965

ARD: Address Reference Database, what openeir/eircom used for address identification prior to the existence of eircodes

tuxy

Shyboy wrote: »

Do any of the Airwire guys be online on this forum (I think they used to occasionally in the past?) I wouldn't mind having a word with them to see if I could help the tenant with this to get to the bottom of it?

Martin is usually fairly active so give him a PM
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=874592

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

ARD is the Address Reference Database (I think it stands for), the internal identifier used by open eir to identify premises.

Thanks Navi. How would I be able to find out the ARD for the premises? Or would it be linked to the ONT Serial if the tenant quoted that?

Airwire: MartinL

We have a database, that we get from OpenEIR, that lets us identify fully subscribed DSLAMs (for VDSL) and DPs (for FTTH).

That's the ones, that then result in "No ports available".

Sometimes "No ports available" is also tagged, when there is a problem with a FTTH cluster or exchange.

If the DP is fully subscribed, there is nothing that can be done in reality. If it's flagged because there is a problem, then it will be resolved eventually. We can in most cases identify based on the data that we have, if it's one or the other. But that requires a manual lookup.

UG does not give us any ability to see this.

tsue921i8wljb3

Jasper1965 wrote: »

ARD: Address Reference Database, what openeir/eircom used for address identification prior to the existence of eircodes

They still use them.

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy wrote: »

Thanks Navi. How would I be able to find out the ARD for the premises? Or would it be linked to the ONT Serial if the tenant quoted that?

You won't. It would be up to an ISP to do it. That's why you need someone who knows what they are doing.

Shyboy

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

We have a database, that we get from OpenEIR, that lets us identify fully subscribed DSLAMs (for VDSL) and DPs (for FTTH).



That's the ones, that then result in "No ports available".



Sometimes "No ports available" is also tagged, when there is a problem with a FTTH cluster or exchange.

Hi Martin,

Thanks for replying. I actually just sent you a PM about this very issue to see if you might be able to help? Very strange particularly the fact that the PON still seems to be live from the previous tenants?

tsue921i8wljb3

Airwire: MartinL wrote: »

We have a database, that we get from OpenEIR, that lets us identify fully subscribed DSLAMs (for VDSL) and DPs (for FTTH).

That's the ones, that then result in "No ports available".

Sometimes "No ports available" is also tagged, when there is a problem with a FTTH cluster or exchange.

If the DP is fully subscribed, there is nothing that can be done in reality. If it's flagged because there is a problem, then it will be resolved eventually. We can in most cases identify based on the data that we have, if it's one or the other. But that requires a manual lookup.

UG does not give us any ability to see this.

There is an existing fibre line into the premises from the "full" DP. They are not looking for a new line.

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy wrote: »

That thought exactly went through my mind earlier would u believe, Navi, but I had to return the router to Eir when I switched to Digiweb?

A neighbour across the road has one though that I might be able to borrow?

You could use the neighbours or if you have a laptop or desktop that can do VLAN tagging on it's Ethernet interface you can use it.

Set it to VLAN 10 and DHCP the connect directly to the ONT.

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

There is an existing fibre line into the premises from the "full" DP. They are not looking for a new line.

It seems like the line/port on the DP has not been freed up when the last tenants cancelled to allow the new tenants to order/migrate/etc?

tsue921i8wljb3

Shyboy wrote: »

It seems like the line/port on the DP has not been freed up when the last tenants cancelled to allow the new tenants to order/migrate/etc?

Yeah. That would be my guess too.

Shyboy

Briggs Salmon Forearm wrote: »

You could use the neighbours or if you have a laptop or desktop that can do VLAN tagging on it's Ethernet interface you can use it.

Set it to VLAN 10 and DHCP the connect directly to the ONT.

Thanks Navi. I will pop next door to them tomorrow evening and test that.

Airwire: MartinL

As per Shyboys PM.

The DP has all 4 ports allocated, but the premise in question is one of them.

So the previous tenants may have cancelled with their provider, but their provider forgot to cancel upstream with OpenEIR.

That can be fixed ... but unlikely a mainstream provider will figure that one out.

The previous tenant could also still be paying for that line. That would not be a first either.