The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com

redlead

I really like number four because so many microbrands just go down the generic diver route (probably for good reason to be fair). What you are offering is something that is totally unique. Other reviewers might cover the value for money point which is important. Some of those quotes are so good, you could forgive yourself for a using a few of them. I'd go, 4, 1, 2, 5, 3 in order of preference.

This is it

I definitely wouldn't go for three. It might put it in people's minds that maybe the final piece won't be as good as this

Edit: 4, 2, 1

I don't like 5 or 3

MAJJ

Initially 2 but then thought it may cast doubt on delivery.
So I would then go with 3.

Great to see the feedback and acknowledgement of your hard work to date.

banie01

micks_address wrote: »

yeah to be honest when im not 'working' most of my browsing is via my phone... mostly so my wife doesnt see me browsing potential watch purchases

Incognito tabs Mick
Incognito! Tis better they think we have crippling porn addictions, than an addiction to man jewellery :pac:

dakar

Great to have a selection of positive takes to use.

2,4,5 in that order.

The others can be read positively, but can also be interpreted negatively. I don’t like 1, because usually when I see something described as ‘too good to be true’, it is, and I don’t like the element of doubt no. 3 introduces.

tobdom

I'd go with 2 (2nd preference would be 5)

Eoin

tobdom wrote: »

I'd go with 2 (2nd preference would be 5)

+1

antodeco

2 stood out straight away to me!

FFVII

No 5 for me then 2

Thirdfox

Thanks for all the feedback guys - I think personally I was looking at 5 but can understand how this actually might be something that works better in audio (when you can really hear the hope/excitement in the reviewer's voice - plus these quotes are in chronological order - so after hearing 1-4 and then 5 - it was just "wham - yeah he really gets what I'm trying to do".

After hearing the wide variety of opinions - I think I'll go with no.2 then - with just one modification:

"...more than anything I’m very impressed, this is a piece with not just one source of wow…" - I don't think removing the "but" changes the context as I recall he was mentioning something else positive before that. Plus but(t)s belong in the back not the front :pac:


edit: or maybe even:

"...I’m very impressed, this is a piece with not just one source of wow…" - again spirit and context kept intact and might read snappier?

hammerdub

Thirdfox wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback guys - I think personally I was looking at 5 but can understand how this actually might be something that works better in audio (when you can really hear the hope/excitement in the reviewer's voice - plus these quotes are in chronological order - so after hearing 1-4 and then 5 - it was just "wham - yeah he really gets what I'm trying to do".

I'd go 5,2,4. Great choices to have all extremely positive . Well done again TF

So is July 6th when we can purchase? How long for delivery etc?

Thirdfox

Delivery is expected in Jan/Feb 2021 - this takes into account of factory manufacturing, QC in China, shipping to Ireland, QC in Ireland and shipping out from Dublin.

I've left in some buffer for minor issues like some units may need sending back and so on. But you can't rule out massive changes like volcanic eruptions etc

As I said on a facebook group - if you need this watch for a wedding in February - I wouldn't back it - I can't guarantee it'll be in your hands then (and I've seen way too many Kickstarters get delayed). But I've tried to pick reliable business partners and correctly leave in a reasonable buffer time.

antodeco

Am I just being thick? Can't find the Facebook page anywhere!

Thirdfox

Thirdfox wrote: »

Delivery is expected in Jan/Feb 2021 - this takes into account of factory manufacturing, QC in China, shipping to Ireland, QC in Ireland and shipping out from Dublin.

I've left in some buffer for minor issues like some units may need sending back and so on. But you can't rule out massive changes like volcanic eruptions etc

As I said on a facebook group - if you need this watch for a wedding in February - I wouldn't back it - I can't guarantee it'll be in your hands then (and I've seen way too many Kickstarters get delayed). But I've tried to pick reliable business partners and correctly leave in a reasonable buffer time.

Thanks- so will a deposit be required or the full price, come July 6th?

Eoin

I think this has all been answered in the thread already, but this is from kickstarter

When is my card charged? If the project you're backing is successfully funded, your card will be charged when the project reaches its funding deadline. If the project does not reach its funding goal, your card is never charged.

So anywhere from very soon after launch if it's very popular, up to the length of the campaign.

banie01

antodeco wrote: »

Am I just being thick? Can't find the Facebook page anywhere!

There's a Facebook page?
I know there's a web page, a Kickstarter info/notification page and an Instagram page.
Did not know there was an FB page so that would be new to me.

Is there one?

Thirdfox

antodeco wrote: »

Am I just being thick? Can't find the Facebook page anywhere!

There's no facebook page - rather I joined the League of Microbrands and Microbrand Watches groups - I don't think I have enough time to manage 2/3 social media avenues. Instead, by joining the group (which has 8,000 and 50,000 members respectively - you know your posts are seen by people who are super interested in microbrands already).

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks- so will a deposit be required or the full price, come July 6th?

The full shebang will be required at the end of the campaign (if funded successfully)... it's the way Kickstarter operates - backers pay the whole thing over to the creator - who then uses those funds to pay the factory/leather maker/shipper etc. and gets the watches made.

In return - backers get a lower price than if you weren't paying all this before the product is made. i.e. once I reach the 394 limit - future "retail" versions (and pre-made ones) will be sold at €549 - I (honestly) doubt there will ever be €349 Sólás watches (not just the Starlight line) ever again being sold - but that's the whole point of Kickstarter - you're helping me "kickstart" my brand - I'm giving you a big discount over retail.

The reason I doubt there'll be €349 Sólás watches being sold is that I don't want to compete in that price arena - at that price point you're limited to 1) either make no/little profits (not do-able long term as a business plan or 2) picking generic things that plenty of other companies do already.

I want to be different... I want to have plenty more world first's too - my Chinese supplier said to me today after I relayed her the quotes from the review - she sees now that I have a different attitude than some of their other customers (they make 10,000 watches a month apparently pre-COVID) - when she comes back and says "engineer says it's not done like this often (or at all)" - I say "good - if it's done often I'm not interested in doing it"

So what I'm trying to do is eventually build up to the quality of the Swiss pieces, but at a price that doesn't need to account for their history/prestige (and backroom costs).

Put it this way - I plan to rival or outperform Omega's finishing with the next model - but I need funds and profits from the Starlight to do that.

edit: having a day job is a double edged sword - I can fund the Starlight R&D myself (though I would have loved to have a bigger budget - who wouldn't want a little bit more?) - but I was up until 6am 2 days ago trying to close off some deals with HK and Singapore on the line - it is something that I would ask backers for understanding on too - this price was set at a level that meant I need to work at my day job as a corporate lawyer - so I won't be available to backers 24/7

OK- so what you're saying is- there's a "risk" that I pay my money, and don't get a watch at the end of it? Or have I read your above post wrong?

VW 1

Deleted User wrote: »

OK- so what you're saying is- there's a "risk" that I pay my money, and don't get a watch at the end of it? Or have I read your above post wrong?

That's the inherent risk of Kickstarter. But I'd be more than shocked if that was even remotely likely in this case.

This is it

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK- so what you're saying is- there's a "risk" that I pay my money, and don't get a watch at the end of it? Or have I read your above post wrong?

No, that's correct. Once he reaches the required backers on Kickstarter he receives the funds. There would be a risk, as with all projects, that some thing happens and the money is lost. The risk would depend on the project. Reading these threads I believe it's a case that if TF gets the required backers it's almost guaranteed that you'll receive a watch. All the research, prototypes, etc. are complete, all that's really left is the production of the watches. I say almost guaranteed because nothing in life is ever 100%.

At least that's my take on it, in layman's terms.

Eoin

There's always that risk with kickstarter projects - the fundraising is used to finance manufacturing etc. You're getting in really early, so the price has to be appealing.

A quick google suggests that 1 in 10 campaigns fail to deliver, after having been funded. More here. That doesn't seem like a bad rate?

So whenever you're looking at a campaign, check out the details - if the person running the campaign has factored in and addressed the risks.

Thirdfox

Technically there is a risk of that happening - because you aren't popping into a store and walking out with a watch. If the container ship of watches (or more likely DHL plane) develops a hole and the watches all fell out on the way over to Ireland you might have to wait until we do a second batch after insurance funds are claimed... if my factory partner takes the money and in the middle of this goes bankrupt then nothing might be recovered. So it's not a certainty or instant delivery service.

Now I can tell you I have vetted my factory partners (narrowing the field from around 10 considerations, to 3 shortlists and 2 sample production partners and 1 ultimate partner) but I can't guarantee you will get a watch unlike going into a boutique and buying something off the shelf.

Not trying to put you off - but it's the nature of pre-ordering - you can't be guaranteed you'll get exactly what you ordered (though I have performed due diligence and business risk analysis). Kickstarter also doesn't require creators to deliver exactly what was promised but to "try their best" to fulfil those goals - unscrupulous people can use that as a loophole to deliver some much less than what was promised. Scrupulous people sometimes mess up and can't deliver exactly what was promised either and try their best.

I think I have the business acumen to have covered off most foreseeable hiccups and have a plan C if things go wrong. I don't have a plan D however - so it's a matter of balancing the risk you're willing to take in backing a kickstarter vs. the benefits. If you prefer to wait until the watches are all made and pay me €549 that's perfectly fine too (though actually it will probably be €675 if selling within the EU with 23% VAT added). The Kickstarter has been designed that no VAT needs to be applied for the 394 watches I'm creating and it's at a discount that accounts for Kickstarter risk.

So the potential difference is between €349-399 EU/non-EU backers and €549 (non-EU) and €675 (EU) buyers.

banie01

Given the effort and candour TF has put into this watch.
The efforts to fundraise on behalf of a charity that this thread had a huge part in selecting.

Given that there are prototypes, a strap maker and leather supplier all on board.
There is a near zero chance of a backer not getting the watch, this isn't an aspirational piece of vaporware.

It's the culmination of a lot and engagement on TF's part, with the additional benefit of no middleman or translation issues between the creator, and the factory.

The chances of no watch are honestly IMO infinitesimal.

It's gotten to the point where despite my earlier thread flounce, and issues around "assemble"

I'll probably very likely make a gowl out of myself and end up buying on Monday.

I've put a lot of typing, talking and thought into this thread...
And I'd hate to miss out on a diamond :P

MAJJ

Do we get a notification on Monday to order?

Thirdfox

I'll be reminding people here I'm sure ha - but yes if you're a follower already then you'll get a notification saying that the campaign has been launched once it launches.

There are only 20 super early birds and 25 early bird prices (€349 and €369 respectively) so if people want to take advantage of the extra, extra discount then you'd want to back early (you can always cancel a pledge if you want to back out before the campaign ends - someone else would be eligible to take your spot on the better price if they so wished). You'll always get a few people who cancel at near the end of the campaign for various reasons.



One thing I'd like to ask (but will be impossible to enforce I know) - is if you're considering getting the Starlight and flipping it for a potential profit (doesn't happen often with microbrands but I *think* the price point of Starlight is slightly different). I would ask that you leave the super early bird and early bird prices for people who genuinely want to own the watch. Not directed at you MAJJ(!) I just wanted to put it out there - will remind people again on Sunday.

349 is a really low price and I would really hope it goes to the people who support the watch and brand and not to people who are looking to make an extra €50 on flipping. At 399 - it's possible that people can still flip for a profit too (especially if Sólás only moves upwards up the price scale in the next few years) - so I'm asking to please leave the early bird prices to genuine buyers

banie01

Just realised my results are out on the 6th, if I finish the year above a 3.4, it's a sign I should buy a starlight then I suppose

Thirdfox

banie01 wrote: »

Just realised my results are out on the 6th, if I finish the year above a 3.4, it's a sign I should buy a starlight then I suppose

Out before 9:19am? You might not want to wait too long afterwards then...

dakar

I’ve been following this from the beginning. I hope TF forgives me in saying this is the most thoroughly researched and best executed vanity project I’ve ever seen. As in, the man asked ‘This is something I’d like to see on my own wrist, why can’t I buy it?’ and went and put time, effort and real money into making it happen.

I wish I had the energy and enthusiasm that he has had in following through on his desire in making this a reality.

I didn’t even know I ‘needed’ a dress watch (in fairness, none of my dive watches have gotten wetter than a heavy shower of rain), but I’ll be refreshing my email at 9:18 on Monday because I think this is something special, and I want one.

banie01

Thirdfox wrote: »

Out before 9:19am? You might not want to wait too long afterwards then...

Out at 9am.
Definitely a sign

oxocube

Thirdfox wrote: »

Put it this way - I plan to rival or outperform Omega's finishing with the next model - but I need funds and profits from the Starlight to do that.

Please have a sports watch on your radar. I'd be all over it with multiple dial colours :cool:

Thirdfox

dakar wrote: »

I’ve been following this from the beginning. I hope TF forgives me in saying this is the most thoroughly researched and best executed vanity project I’ve ever seen. As in, the man asked ‘This is something I’d like to see on my own wrist, why can’t I buy it?’ and went and put time, effort and real money into making it happen.

A regular Elon Musk of the watch world (why can't rockets fly back down?) - without the twitter tantrums and weird naming of children... (big fan of Musk's vision of multi-planetary species - not big fan of him calling people pedos on twitter :rolleyes:)

I know Hangzhou are rather excited about this project - might put their micro-rotor on the map for all the microbrands now - but hey that's cool - let's see what other people can do with it. You only get to be first once though

Thirdfox

oxocube wrote: »

Please have a sports watch on your radar. I'd be all over it with multiple dial colours :cool:

Well why else was I exploring extension clasps etc.?

I got some feedback from some members on some plans - but things have moved on again from that - it was felt that it wasn't special enough - and yes - I'm currently in the design phase for something more special. Again funding is needed so the Starlight needs to succeed too

One titbit for doing R&D - it's $600 for a sample of X1 superluminova paint in a non-standard colour - and of course - only the highest quality will be used (X1 grade vs standard) for things I'm building.

micks_address

Thirdfox wrote: »

Well why else was I exploring extension clasps etc.?

I got some feedback from some members on some plans - but things have moved on again from that - it was felt that it wasn't special enough - and yes - I'm currently in the design phase for something more special. Again funding is needed so the Starlight needs to succeed too

One titbit for doing R&D - it's $600 for a sample of X1 superluminova paint in a non-standard colour - and of course - only the highest quality will be used (X1 grade vs standard) for things I'm building.

how many metres squared will the sample cover? usually i find the first coat takes more then the second coat doesnt use as much (from experience painting a wooden fence Tuesday)

hitemfrank

That's the most opulent use of superluminova I ever heard of ;-)

Thirdfox

micks_address wrote: »

how many metres squared will the sample cover? usually i find the first coat takes more then the second coat doesnt use as much (from experience painting a wooden fence Tuesday)

As much as you can spread 6 (or was it 10) grammes over... The Swiss know how to sell their goods that's for sure

Funny you mention coats - because the strength of lume isn't magic - it's how many coats of lume you apply. Phoibos do 15 layers of X1 lume on theirs:
https://phoiboswatch.com/products/phoibos-great-wall-500m-automatic-diver-watch-py022b-blue-limited-edition.html

And you'll see YouTube videos stating they even beat the old traditional lume monsters like Seiko Orange Monsters etc. oh and handily beats Rolex's chromalight too

Thirdfox

Someone pointed this subreddit out to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/****tykickstarters/ - I hope I never end up there (depression healing coloured mug? )

In more relevant news - we've hit 222 followers - meaning technically we have enough people (if followers change to backers) to ensure the project gets funded now.

And promotion has started in China now too - rather than shipping the watches all the way to Ireland to get straps added to be shipped back to China I might be shipping some straps over to Beijing and complete "assembly" there :pac:

Eoin

Will you distribute to any other countries from here?

Thirdfox

It's all from here (China is the only one I'm considering doing it from China) - since my workstation etc. is all in Ireland.

It's also why there are VAT considerations for future deliveries.

Eoin

How did you organise shipping from here by the way? I've found it a complete arseache trying to arrange insured shipping of watches.

Thirdfox

An Post now provides insured shipping in Ireland. I'll be shipping worldwide via registered post - my experience of stolen packages has been very low but if that occurs it comes out of my pocket and I ship again. We're shipping 399 watches not 3999 watches (which would get a bump up to fedex/dhl shipping) - that's the plan anyway - no backer will be left hanging however.

893bet

Thirdfox wrote: »

An Post now provides insured shipping in Ireland. I'll be shipping worldwide via registered post - my experience of stolen packages has been very low but if that occurs it comes out of my pocket and I ship again. We're shipping 399 watches not 3999 watches (which would get a bump up to fedex/dhl shipping) - that's the plan anyway - no backer will be left hanging however.

I understand jewellery is excluded?

Thirdfox

893bet wrote: »

I understand jewellery is excluded?

Yay need a lawyer for you going through the terms and conditions - jewellery is excluded yup - and that includes watches...made of precious metals. I may call aventurine a luxurious/precious material - but a metal it ain't

apuat.strata3test.com/Post-Parcels/Sending/Sending-Guide/Prohibited-Items - for some reason it's not loading for me currently - but I mentioned it on the watchmen thread too a while back noting that An Post now includes optional insurance.

893bet

Thirdfox wrote: »

Yay need a lawyer for you going through the terms and conditions - jewellery is excluded yup - and that includes watches...made of precious metals. I may call aventurine a luxurious/precious material - but a metal it ain't

apuat.strata3test.com/Post-Parcels/Sending/Sending-Guide/Prohibited-Items - for some reason it's not loading for me currently - but I mentioned it on the watchmen thread too a while back noting that An Post now includes optional insurance.

But where is “jewellery” defined so that watches of the stainless variety are excluded?

I wouldn’t like to be in tells situation of arguing with them on a 2k watch.

(Notes that thirdfox has a strong interest in pro bono work)

Thirdfox

893bet wrote: »

But where is “jewellery” defined so that watches of the stainless variety are excluded?

I wouldn’t like to be in tells situation of arguing with them on a 2k watch.

(Notes that thirdfox has a strong interest in pro bono work)

https://www.anpost.com/AnPost/media/PDFs/SinglePieceMailTermsandConditionsforUniversalServices.pdf

(14) “Jewellery” means:—(a) gold, silver, or platinum or other precious metal in a manufactured state, that is to say, a state in which value is added to the raw material by skilled workmanship, and includes any coins used or designed for the purposes of ornament;(b) diamonds and precious stones;(c) watches, the cases of which are entirely or mainly composed of gold, silver or platinum or other precious metal; and(d) any article of a like nature which, apart from workmanship, has an intrinsic or marketable value.

As An Post's lawyer I would argue that (d) snookers you as a Rolex whatever, has an intrinsic or marketable value.

As my own lawyer I would argue that per the contra preferendum rule - T&Cs are interpreted against the draftee of the contract - they have covered watches in (c) already and explicitly state that it applies only to gold/silver/platinum/precious metal cases so it cannot then cover watches again separately under (d).

Additionally, if that argument does not apply - my second argument is that the Rolex has its marketable value precisely because of its workmanship.

Additionally, if that argument is not accepted in the small claims court - then my 3rd argument would be that (d) states that "an article of a like nature" - which a watch is not, it is an article of exactly the same nature to the item described in (c) and so is excluded from (d).

...Basically - I'd ask An Post to get me to re-draft these T&Cs if they want to exclude stainless watches :pac:

edit: but as always - see that signature of mine - who know's if I'm actually a lawyer or just spouting nonsense

Thirdfox

Some more good news - Perth Watch loves it too and mentions that people might be bashing at the door to get more after the KS batch sells out...

I'll hopefully be in a position to start a waiting list for next (serial production but no longer at KS prices) set once I see what demand is like at the end of the KS campaign.

T-3 days to go!

This is it

Even though it'll be 6 months+ before I, hopefully, get the watch, I'm still very excited for the KS kickoff!

And delighted to see €2k for Alone too

Thirdfox

Considering we're starting ahead of schedule we should get delivery slightly ahead of schedule too - so maybe January rather than February.

I'll be keeping people relatively updated on progress as things progress too.

Thirdfox

- Shane from Relative Time has put up his review - I'm so busy I haven't seen it myself yet but hopefully it's good

banie01

Thirdfox wrote: »

- Shane from Relative Time has put up his review - I'm so busy I haven't seen it myself yet but hopefully it's good

Very compelling and in-depth review.
Really came out as a fan of the watch IMO, that he would have liked some blueing is interesting, but a little bit greedy at the KS price in fairness

That he spent so long extolling the virtues of the dial/hand combo and highlighting the difficulty in actually photographing it and capturing it's hue and subtlety should get any folk on the fence...
Off it, I think.

In my own (easily discounted ) opinion, it's as close to a glowing review as I've seen.

The hands, I keep wondering how they'd look with whatever the finishing B&R use is called?
That Matt/polish contrast, not a want or a change request! Just a musing.

Really delighted the review was so good and the watch so well received.
Interesting tha the very minor issues actually raised tally well with some of the earlier on thread discussions.