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The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com
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Now this is magnified massively - but I did ask them to space out the letters a bit (compared to the first prototype):
So perhaps it would be better to move back to the closer together font (if that's the only choice which would people prefer?) - no option C :P0 -
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Few ideas from Mrs. David incl some contemporary curved balls. Have to say I like EB Garamond. Let us know if you need and Photoshop mockups!
Of these I'd lean towards EB Garamond, more classic serif style, suits the style of the watch IMO.0 -
Does it really look that awful guys? I'm just not seeing it
It looks far better on the clasp than the dial IMO.
That's very curious, perhaps a font that suits engraving and larger point size better than appliqué or smaller details?
Like I said earlier, I'll be buying one of these anyway.
That said if memory serves the font did come up previously particularly in regards the branding and Lír.
To my mind the current font tries to strike a balance between tradition and whimsy.
It's a balance that skews towards a little too far towards the whimsy in my eye, it's a resemblance that a lot of others have alluded to aswell.
The tooling costs even it is only to reprogramme a CNC and pay for a font are now too high to change on Starlight.
It's a sunk cost, and I don't think it will affect your run selling out.
Viper offering to run a poll on what people think will go a long way towards giving you a clearer picture of how others perceive the current font.
I think a more detached pool of feedback than us opinionated paddies will be far more help to you than our waffle
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(honest opinion) ...I actually hate myself for posting this and do apologise. The watch gets a solid 100% from me otherwise. I hope I'm wrong and it's just me.
Username checks out!
I thought it was going to be a US/Foreigner vs. Irish divide on this (just like with the music) - but if even the Americans don't like the font then that's a big problem (as I've seen on WUS) - and not just "don't like" but rather "dislike".Do you have to use an existing font? Could it be hand written or sketched and uploaded?
That would be going into the realm of designing a font - and something I'm definitely not equipped or confident about doing - it's a skill that is probably a lot hard than one might imagine it to be.I think it looks better with the first prototype spacing (closer together). That's why it looks better on the clasp. It's closer together than the current dial version.
That's something that can be reverted definitely with minimal costs.
@David - thanks for the links to the EB Garamond - great to see that it's opensource too - I do agree that if one wasn't looking for a Celtic style font that the Garamond is very appealing. I've installed that typeface now and will be trialling it out - like I said - it's unfortunately probably too late to change the main text blocks for the Starlight but for those who would like to see what the font would look like for elements of the text Google has a helpful font website for this:
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/EB+Garamond?preview.text=S%C3%B3l%C3%A1s+Starlight++deartha+in+%C3%89irinn+c%C3%A9ad+eagr%C3%A1n&preview.text_type=custom&sidebar.open#standard-styles0 -
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And I note that even with the people who say the clasp version looks better - no-one has really said that it looks "good" - seemingly it's mainly all ambivalent or negative still.
I'm talking to my supplier now - there may be a way to get this turned around even at this late stage.
I would like to ask people - if I were to move to EB Garamond for the dial/caseback text - would people be okay with me keeping the logo on the crown/rotor and strap as is with the stylised S surrounding by Celtic weave? Or would that be an even bigger disaster having two mismatching typefaces on the watch (though the S by itself isn't huge - and it's relatively small on the rotor, tiny on the crown and imprinted into black leather on the strap.
I've just had a thought... Have you considered just using the S surrounded by Celtic weave on the dial instead of the text? That would solve both issues then.
Here's my crude attempt at doing it... You get the idea though. I think it would look really good.
https
/imgur.com/a/N4vGzoj
Plus I'm sure people would prefer that. It also shows the Irish roots of the watch on the dial too then.0 -
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The stylised S and Celtic weave crown and rotor decoration are a fantastic and quite striking part of the starlight.
I think you will have to see how the modified dial and case back together to make a call.
Would it be at all feasible to keep the S and Celtic weave as a logo/monogram?
Have that "S" as the initial S and the Garamond text for everything else?
It means that at least a Unique Solas ident is immediately apparent, it could even extend over further models to a dial decoration?
Would you believe it - at the beginning I got some feedback from people (during even the internal testing phase) who hated the Celtic weave design too - so it goes back to the "someone will hate it no matter what". And the US reviewer made a good point I think about having another circle on the dial - it might unbalance the dial even more with the 7 o'clock subdial already there (and that's something that is an intrinsic part of the movement and cannot be moved).I've just had a thought... Have you considered just using the S surrounded by Celtic weave on the dial instead of the text? That would solve both issues then.
Here's my crude attempt at doing it... You get the idea though. I think it would look really good.
https/imgur.com/a/N4vGzoj
Plus I'm sure people would prefer that. It also shows the Irish roots of the watch on the dial too then.
See above! - interesting how the voting is panning out on your channel - there at least is a non-zero amount of people who do like the font - something I'll address below too.Just my 2 cents on the matter.
You're never going to keep everyone happy. Some people will criticise the font, others the movement, some the dial. Others will criticise everything, no matter what you do. That's the nature or the beast. Personally I think the logo shows a bit of individuality. It is your design after all, and you've explained the compelling reasons regards costs for choosing same. And it looks great engraved on that clasp.
That being said, for future reference, I think the issue may not be the logo but instead may be with the 'deartha in Éirinn' font. If that writing was put in a more 'traditional' style (like the Poppins font someone posted a few posts back) I think you might win back some of the nay sayers. Have a look at any watch you own. How often does the same same font carry through the entirety of the dial from the manufacturers name on top to "Swiss Made" at the bottom or "automatic" or "Divers 200" below the hands? Rarely in my experience. I'd actually say never. And i think it's that which is subconsciously catching people's eye and drawing negativity.
Interesting you mention that - I think it could be that from close up shots I've taken it's exaggerated - because actually on the dial - the "deartha in Éirinn" is tiny - remember the watch itself is only 38mm - the bottom row text is something you won't notice at all at first glance unless you decide to bring you eye right up to the dial:
Having said that - you are correct that with logos and standard text most companies (none?) use the other text in the same way as their "fancy" logo text is used - unless their logo uses standard text too.Just google "old irish font" and go to images, lots of good traditional stuff comes up.
You run into the same licensing issue that I've mentioned before - most of those fonts that come up probably won't be free to use.
...and just to throw a curveball into everything - Shane from Relative Time just got back to me after I raised this issue with him and said he quite likes the font - this is the rather large US watch reviewer who is currently about to publish his review too. So it is "good" in that there are people who do like it (and may address it in their review too) - it makes it difficult to decide on how to proceed however if there are those who really don't like it.
I think - looking at it - if there are those (especially in the US where I think a large part of my target audience will be) that likes the font I will keep it (though pushing it closer like in the original prototype) - at least definitely for the Starlight - I will do plenty more research into alternative styling for the next model however. I don't want to end up like Christopher Ward however where they switched through 3 logos in 3(?) years - having a distinctive look will be important to the brand. I just don't it "distinctively bad" 0 -
I think - looking at it - if there are those (especially in the US where I think a large part of my target audience will be) that likes the font I will keep it (though pushing it closer like in the original prototype) - at least definitely for the Starlight - I will do plenty more research into alternative styling for the next model however. I don't want to end up like Christopher Ward however where they switched through 3 logos in 3(?) years - having a distinctive look will be important to the brand. I just don't it "distinctively bad"
I'd agree that you need to focus more on what those outside the bubble here in Ireland may want or what we may deem "cheesy".
As I said in and earlier post and particularly with international customers in mind..
Viper offering to run a poll on what people think will go a long way towards giving you a clearer picture of how others perceive the current font.
I think a more detached pool of feedback than us opinionated paddies will be far more help to you than our waffle0 -
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Just some photos of the purple/mauve salmon leather strap that will be paired with the SoK version entered into the draw with Alone:
The thinner thread really allows the salmon to shine through on its own I think
The clasp not getting the rose gold treatment also?
I think some good photos will really show that salmon skin strap off, personally I think it looks great and I can see where you're going with the SoK version.0 -
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I don’t mean to be negative but I think it’s awful.
A “dress watch” with a purple strap?
Edit to say I am referring to the purple strap only rather than the watch.
Darling, don't you know I invented the pianokey necktie?
- you're getting an insight into the brain of Thirdfox right now ha - it's what I would love to wear and try out - even attending that gala at the National Concert Hall in my full black tie ensemble I think it still would suit the dial and accents it nicely...
Ripples of the salmon mauve to the shimmer of the aventurine blue/black...
If you entered the draw and win I'll be sure to give you (or any winner actually) an option to switch to the standard Horween black if you/they preferTrigger Happy wrote: »Agreed with what was said above. There will be lots of opinions on what works and what does not work. But at this stage I would be going with your gut TF on what you feel is right for your project. You have taken it this far and are close to seeing it through.
It is close to fruition as a project - but it needs to hit the numbers to actually be made - it would a huge regret if I stuck with it and it doesn't hit the 200 minimum number to get made - had been (quietly) confident that it would hit closer to the 390 aim rather than struggle to 200 (seeing that I thought it was at least a coherent (if not appealing) design, good value for the novelty in mechanics etc.)
There is always the sunk-cost fallacy - so if a different path can still be taken (to avert a potential disaster of the project just failing to meet it's project goal) then I think the responsible thing is to look at how to minimise this risk.challengemaster wrote: »The clasp not getting the rose gold treatment also?
I think some good photos will really show that salmon skin strap off, personally I think it looks great and I can see where you're going with the SoK version.
Only the internal elements are getting the plating treatment - it was the compromise between visual appeal (for me, I know some people hate rose gold too ha) - and longevity - some people were concerned about plating - though after 10 months of using the rose gold plated clasp from my first prototype it is holding up well - even at the button parts which encounter the most wear.The font is fine, but if I were you, and it was possible to change it, I would after the feedback. That's what feedback is for.
Agreed - and hopefully I've shown here that I'm really trying to listen and see why some of the feedback has been "strong" on the font used. From the very beginning I said I appreciate honest feedback - because I'm not designing purely for myself (rose-gold on mauve salmon strap and aventurine dial? Yes please! - I'll feel like a Roman emperor for a day ha) but trying to do something that may be commercially viable (besides rebadging Vostoks - which it turns out actually wasn't viable :pac: )
I'm discussing with factory partner of what is actually possible at this stage - right now it seems that the "tweak" of a closer spaced logo like the prototype is possible - let's see how that turns out.0 -
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I think I've cracked it - after asking my psychologist sister and a number of other watch reviewers I think I've figured out why I really like this font and for many here they're not great fans... and it is a cultural divide again potentially...
One phrase I got back from a reviewer was that "this kind of "hand-drawn" style doesn't fit this kind of classic watch" - which was, for me, probably the key to understanding why I feel so differently to a lot of people - and can't escape the cultural background here... it's all about what is considered "classy" (East vs. West).
When the reviewer said "hand-drawn" I guess his intention meant that it seemed "childish" or "rough" - but from my cultural background "hand-drawn" can mean "calligraphic" and "art".
Chinese calligraphy is an art in and of itself:
In fact people frame and buy calligraphy just like paintings are bought here in Ireland. See those seals besides those words? Those are the artists' (or in some cases Emperor's seals) denoting their "art work" (that of one particular word written in their own style).
For me, I see each curve and blob/indent/protrusion by the typographer as an expression of his "art" style - for example - I loved his take on the o, with the reflexive curve stroke back beyond the 360 of the circle - it's something like you would write with a Chinese maobi (hair pen i.e. ink brush). So when people say it looks like the plain and simple Comic Sans it left me bewildered - "how can people compare something so stylised to something so simple?" To me arial/times new roman etc. would be much closer to Comic Sans than blzee was.
In Chinese - if you write like the characters without any individual expression it would be like writing in capital letters here - something childish and devoid of meaning. But maybe in the English language we don't need to subscribe so much meaning to individual letters - which aren't comparable to Chinese characters (based on pictography).
Here are some examples of Chinese watch brands btw:
Beijing Watch:
This is what Bei Jing looks like in computer font - 北京
Shanghai Watch:
This is Shang Hai - 上海
Seagull Watch (using the name Dongfeng - East Wind):
Dong Feng is actually 东风
You can see with Chinese none of these names (and they're not logos, just names) look plain/simple or have straight lines - but yet are considered something "ultra classy" in the market where they are sold.
I guess I just treated the Irish script and the name as more like a thing of beauty, rather than an utilitarian conveyer of information - and I think that's where the potential disconnect between me and a lot of others exist.
Here is Chinese calligraphy for those interested - it's just a person writing huge letters on paper with ink - but in China famous calligraphers' works can sell for as much as a Picasso here:
Brief but instructive!
I think at it now it explains to me why I love the blzee typeface - it reminds me of Chinese calligraphy (at least in the energy) - and a fusion with the English alphabet (with Celtic hints). 0 -
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