The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com

SnowyMay

Hi Thirdfox

I'd have no problem at all waiting, but, so that I'm clear, does this mean that all backers so far would need to commit again? I'd be a bit worried if that was the case (although I'd still be in).

fat bloke

Yeah, am I correct in my understanding that it's watch delivery will be postponed, but the kickstarter will actually be launched afresh -as in a cancellation of all existing pledges, resetting to zero and starting again from a new date?

Wibbs

david wrote: »

The production watch looks amazing, above all expectations and nice photos too!! I definitely think you’ll get more support in subsequent reviews/the proposed plan. Fully on board!

+1. The frameless date is definitely better. Looks great.

Lorddrakul

That looks amazing!

As for a slight delay, it would suit me just fine, as I'm more likely to be able to support a purchase a bit later than earlier.

Keep the pics coming, please.

maximoose

I'm totally fine with the proposed delay, production shots look great

Thirdfox

SnowyMay wrote: »

Hi Thirdfox

I'd have no problem at all waiting, but, so that I'm clear, does this mean that all backers so far would need to commit again? I'd be a bit worried if that was the case (although I'd still be in).

Even just after the first day we already have 44 response on the survey (hope you filled it out too ) - all 100% supportive of the plan. I'm sure some people aren't too interested in filling out the survey but at least from the received response it has been 100% positive - which says to me that the people who are backers do want to back and get the watch - so if this is the best way to achieve "making the watch" - then they would be happy to support this approach.

fat bloke wrote: »

Yeah, am I correct in my understanding that it's watch delivery will be postponed, but the kickstarter will actually be launched afresh -as in a cancellation of all existing pledges, resetting to zero and starting again from a new date?

That's correct - because KS does not allow extensions to the campaign. We would need to start afresh with another campaign at a later date. It's also why there is a danger of losing some current backers in the "migration" to the new campaign in a few months' time. So I'm raising this well in advance and hoping to make it clear to backers what the intention is.

Of course the "good" thing is that since the current campaign is still live - absolutely no money has been taken from any backers - and with the increased amount of super early birds, early birds etc. it is more likely you can get a Starlight at a lower price (and I've put in a personal guarantee that if you're currently on one of the lower tiers and didn't manage to grab the equivalent tier again in the future at the relaunch I can refund you the difference (to the current 45 people on those tiers).

SnowyMay

Lawyered!

I would say, TF, that, if you go ahead with this, then you make it a bit more clear about the need to re-back.

My concern would be the loss of backers. Sure, the guys who don’t fill in the survey won’t be re-backing anyway.

I say this as somebody who has sold 0 watches, but this wouldn’t be a route which I would take.

I hope I’m wrong.

Cassius99

TF, its just my 2 cents as a randomer on the Tinternets, but I think your doing the right thing.

Yes there is a risk that some people wont back the relaunch, but that is what it is. If we're being honest, if you had just ploughed ahead the way things were, it just wasnt going to happen numbers wise, not at this point. And that would have been a terrible pity after all the time and effort you've put into the project.

You've made a mature decision with the benefit of hindsight. You live and learn and at least this way the project still has a fighting chance!

By the way the new pictures are great!

Tristram

I backed the project because I want it to succeed and to have your beautiful watch on my wrist. If this decision increases the chances of that happening you have my support. I am glad that you have noted those who got in early. Best of luck and I look forward to further updates and the dream becoming reality.

VW 1

I'm also one of the early birds and don't mind paying the little extra and the delay if it means it gets done. Best of luck with it TF.

Thirdfox

SnowyMay wrote: »

Lawyered!

I would say, TF, that, if you go ahead with this, then you make it a bit more clear about the need to re-back.

My concern would be the loss of backers. Sure, the guys who don’t fill in the survey won’t be re-backing anyway.

I say this as somebody who has sold 0 watches, but this wouldn’t be a route which I would take.

I hope I’m wrong.

You are probably right that the people who don't respond are rather unlikely to reback the project - but it does indicate that these people might have withdrawn their pledges in the last week (when they needed to put their money where their mouth is and decide if they were in for a Starlight or not).

We are up to 57 respondents now and only 1 person has responded and said they wouldn't re-back. Even if 20-30 backers piled in at the last week (which is never a given) and some were likely to back out too - just how KS works - we would still miss our target - requiring 100 people to pile in at the end and not have anyone back out seems unrealistic.

So it's more making the best of the current situation - we've got the professional shots, now can do some professional marketing.

Will be spending more funds on a professional video ad too - if I'm not going the "fully grassroots" way I'll need to have professional everything else too.

VW 1 wrote: »

I'm also one of the early birds and don't mind paying the little extra and the delay if it means it gets done. Best of luck with it TF.

Just to make it clear - there won't be any extra for current backers to pay - and potentially less too (since more slots will be opened up) - anyone on a current level will pay at most the same as what plan they are on currently.


Here are the final photos:

This is for ABTW:


The back separately:


And I thought it was useful to have the photographer demonstrate what changes you get in aventurine depending on how much light hits it.

Indoors and what you'll typically see:


If you shine a torch at it/walk around in direct sunlight:

Lorddrakul

@ThirdFox they look bloody good, mate.

Fair play.

banie01

Thirdfox wrote: »

You are probably right that the people who don't respond are rather unlikely to reback the project - but it does indicate that these people might have withdrawn their pledges in the last week (when they needed to put their money where their mouth is and decide if they were in for a Starlight or not).

Can't say I agree with the bolded sentiment at all.
Quite dismissive of people who did make a pledge and may now reconsider their position.
Particularly with Covid further impacting income and the new campaign being run that much closer to Christmas and income uncertainty for some likely even continuing past then.

Thirdfox

banie01 wrote: »

Can't say I agree with the bolded sentiment at all.
Quite dismissive of people who did make a pledge and may now reconsider their position.
Particularly with Covid further impacting income and the new campaign being run that much closer to Christmas and income uncertainty for some likely even continuing past then.

Put it down as "misspeaking" - for something as major as deciding to whether to stop the campaign or not - if people didn't want to give any thoughts on this - it would have indicated to me that some of the people who didn't respond would have backed out in the last week or so (which is when the reminder email from KS goes out to current backers telling them if they don't do anything they're going to get charged money). I've seen it first hand in that last week it's when you have early bird spots freeing up as backers who were in from the very start decide for whatever reason they don't want to back it in the end.

No suggestion that the 40 people or so who didn't respond would en masse back out (or commit) but equally saying "yes" on the survey doesn't bind anyone to actually committing - I'm sure of the 60 or so people who said yes not everyone may back it for a potential multitude of reasons and that's no problem.

micks_address

While I've no skin in the game yet and I think you're right to re run the campaign. Part of me wonders what happens in a few months if it gets to 60 percent funded? Game over or rerun again?

I much prefer the final product and I'll very likely be a backer next time out.

Best if luck with it.
Cheers,
Mick

Thirdfox

If, after I've committed around 20k on this project and it doesn't materialise... well it's been a 20k learning experience for me

I'll just price the Starlight at 20k and consider that I've made a unique piece for myself at least :P - not sure MsThirdfox will see it like that however(!)

Because to me then it means that with a full on marketing campaign and it still doesn't fund then it's not the marketing that's wrong, but the actual product. And I can't force a horse to drink - if people simply aren't looking for a Chinese movement watch that costs around 399 - or think the dial looks tacky, the movement is unreliable etc. then I don't think any amount of marketing will change their minds and like I said at the beginning - I wanted to make this watch because it's an affordable micro-rotor (and bonus aventurine) - I could have tried to make something conservative design-wise for profit - but then it becomes a job :P - if a passion doesn't work out at least I got to live it - perhaps someone else might try again in the future.

So my (current) thinking is - game over if 2nd time with full marketing support it still doesn't fund.

Starlight will be extinguished (or supernova'd)

Eoin

I hope this doesn't come across badly, but lots of marketing may not mean that it was the most effective marketing.

If you've already sunk this cost, do you think it might be worth seeing if you can get someone with a marketing / online selling background to have a look at everything in the campaign - photos, wording, titles etc? e.g. off the top of my head, the photos look great in full size, but do they translate well in a thumbnail version in search results? Someone with the right experience could possibly help tweak things to maximise your chance of getting people to first click in to the campaign and then back it. Or maybe people are worried that a personal project, instead of a "watch company" may not put minds to rest about the project's feasibility.

Irishphotodesk

Thirdfox wrote: »

If, after I've committed around 20k on this project and it doesn't materialise... well it's been a 20k learning experience for me

I'll just price the Starlight at 20k and consider that I've made a unique piece for myself at least :P - not sure MsThirdfox will see it like that however(!)

Because to me then it means that with a full on marketing campaign and it still doesn't fund then it's not the marketing that's wrong, but the actual product. And I can't force a horse to drink - if people simply aren't looking for a Chinese movement watch that costs around 399 - or think the dial looks tacky, the movement is unreliable etc. then I don't think any amount of marketing will change their minds and like I said at the beginning - I wanted to make this watch because it's an affordable micro-rotor (and bonus aventurine) - I could have tried to make something conservative design-wise for profit - but then it becomes a job :P - if a passion doesn't work out at least I got to live it - perhaps someone else might try again in the future.

So my (current) thinking is - game over if 2nd time with full marketing support it still doesn't fund.

Starlight will be extinguished (or supernova'd)

its also possible that due to pandemic - people do not have the extra disposable income to spend on investment pieces or luxury items such as watches.

I would suggest that you might consider looking closer to home with respect to advertising/marketing - the law library will have many potential clients and many in the legal field would be interested in a dress watch with a difference, I understand you may not wish to mix work with business but sometimes we need to blur the lines in order to make a dream become obtainable.

banie01

I think Eoin highlighted earlier in the thread that the blurbs and indeed the text carried over to the Kickstarter were images rather than searchable text?
Its a small thing, and one wouldn't usually associate SEO with Kickstarter but on the off chance that someone was searching a micro-rotor or aventurine dial?
It may help the links returned if someone is searching, if they could redone as text?

Good luck with the postponement and reboot!
I hope the ABTW spot drives plenty of further interest.

Thirdfox

Eoin wrote: »

I hope this doesn't come across badly, but lots of marketing may not mean that it was the most effective marketing.

If you've already sunk this cost, do you think it might be worth seeing if you can get someone with a marketing / online selling background to have a look at everything in the campaign - photos, wording, titles etc? e.g. off the top of my head, the photos look great in full size, but do they translate well in a thumbnail version in search results? Someone with the right experience could possibly help tweak things to maximise your chance of getting people to first click in to the campaign and then back it. Or maybe people are worried that a personal project, instead of a "watch company" may not put minds to rest about the project's feasibility.

Yes - I got lots of interesting metrics from the facebook ad mini-campaign - very cheap actually - got around 600 clicks in to the kickstarter page but only 2-3 backed it from there. So I will be re-doing my KS page too - make it simpler (like I've seen other KS campaigns so that it reads clearly on mobile - 50% of people are on mobile, 45% on desktop and 4%ish on tablets). If people want details they can go to the website to read about my story - on the KS page it's about the watch features, rave reviews (which it actually does have from every reviewer who's gotten their hands on it) and that's it - no need to overthink "oh he's justifying why he's Irish actually" etc.

On your second point I've had some backers who have also run KS campaigns before give me some really good tips. I'm happy to take on advice also and will be analysing a few more successful campaigns to see how they've managed to stick to the KISS principle.

So on the KS page instead of going into "oh aventurine is this man-made rock/glass that has its roots in 18th century Italy when glassblowers mistakenly dumped copper into glass which then gives it its name - deriving from the Italian "a ventura" meaning "by chance"."

...It's going to be more along the lines of "sapphire on front and back - to protect your watch from scratches!"...well maybe a bit more information than that (I might direct people to the website for the fully backstory of the Starlight though).

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

its also possible that due to pandemic - people do not have the extra disposable income to spend on investment pieces or luxury items such as watches.

I've had a reviewer say that to me actually - that the only reason he couldn't back the campaign after having the watch in hand was because of the virus affected finances. It's also why I didn't do something like upgrade the leather strap to an even more expensive double lined one by default - it was about keeping prices below the 400. I can say "it's great value!" all I want (and I make no bones about it, it is great value) but I realise it is still a 400 euro discretionary spending item.

banie01 wrote: »

I think Eoin highlighted earlier in the thread that the blurbs and indeed the text carried over to the Kickstarter were images rather than searchable text?
Its a small thing, and one wouldn't usually associate SEO with Kickstarter but on the off chance that someone was searching a micro-rotor or aventurine dial?
It may help the links returned if someone is searching, if they could redone as text?

Good luck with the postponement and reboot!
I hope the ABTW spot drives plenty of further interest.

The text should be searchable from the introductory text, the title and subtitle. The reason why a lot of the KS campaign page is done via images (and this will become simplified images) is because KS has an awful page editor - if you want exact control of your placement of images/text/alignment etc. you'll need to turn it into an image (which is one tip I picture up from other campaigns).


edit: BTW - just to share some analytics with everyone - in the end the US viewers came away as top as expected - France beating out the UK into 3rd was unexpected (though I had a huge French fan who did massive amounts of promotion of the Starlight on their local language forum too):

dudeeile

Few african clicks, big props to Nigeria, Kenya, Tanzania, SA and Zim.

Thirdfox

Some more photos - the eagrán bradán feasa has been assembled too - a slight difference between the glamour shots circulated last time and these slightly out of focus straight from the factory shots - just imagine what it would have looked like in a glamour shot





The prize draw will be on August 1st and it looks like we'll be raising close to 2300 for Alone after GFM takes their payment processing fees

Wibbs

Bloody hellfire TF, the movement looks amazing. :eek:

893bet

How much more expensive was the COGS on that version?

Thirdfox

893bet wrote: »

How much more expensive was the COGS on that version?

It wasn't just the actual expense of the movement itself - it is actually getting them to even make it for you in the first place - for the custom decoration model this required a large MOQ if ordering directly from Hangzhou so I had to procure it from non-PTS sources. They make it to order which adds another 3-4 months to this custom decoration order and it makes it impossible to get specific spare parts (I got 3 such movements from the retail market rather than from the wholesale/manufacturer one) - so the standard one is what I have in the Starlight for now.

Having said that it's all about taking it step by step - if I can convince Hangzhou/PTS that I'll be a reliable long term partner then they may be able to supply these types of movements at a decent price - offer spare parts etc. It needs to make commercial sense for them too.

The bradán feasea is intended to be a true halo example - giving people a sense of where I want Sólás to end up - but again it can't be commercially done at a 399 price when you factor in the other cost components (not just the actual movement itself) i.e. it probably could be commercially sold at this price - just afterwards don't expect Sólás to be around should anything go wrong with it - like a true Aliexpress brand... - and that's not what I'm trying to do here.

Sólás would need to prove itself to Hangzhou (if we were similar to a Zelos or something) before we can put down an order directly from them, within a reasonable timeframe and get after-service care for custom decoration orders - for the Starlight we can only get the standard movement from them and parts for after-service care.

I wasn't joking either when I said for the 2nd model I had intended to compete with Omega levels of visual finishing - something I had discussed with Hangzhou already - think anglage etc. in sub-€800 watches (and of course with various other great features too).

Which goes back to the original problem of some watch buyers (not you guys) thinking "the Chinese only make junk" - because they've only bought or looked at $50 Chinese watches - they then won't consider €400 watches with Chinese movements because of their $50 experiences... but that $50 watch was built to $50 standards - a €399 watch will obviously have a different level of quality (or this SOK version which was intended to be offered at €499 and that's including the salmon leather strap).

I'm glad that I even got a :eek: out of Wibbs - the Chinese can build quality - you just can't expect it in a $50 watch

Wibbs

Thirdfox wrote: »

I'm glad that I even got a :eek: out of Wibbs - the Chinese can build quality - you just can't expect it in a $50 watch

Not a shock really tbh. The Chinese have created some of the finest metalwork in human history and some of the earliest too. The "Made from the finest Chinesium" cheap tat expectation is only about 40-50 years old as they started to export cheap goods to the West in the 1970's.

dudeeile

I honestly prefer the internals in silver, is the gold colour standard now? The front face is looking sweet.

micks_address

Wibbs wrote: »

Not a shock really tbh. The Chinese have created some of the finest metalwork in human history and some of the earliest too. The "Made from the finest Chinesium" cheap tat expectation is only about 40-50 years old as they started to export cheap goods to the West in the 1970's.

id agree with this sentiment. I think whats slightly confusing about the watch is its 'Irishness' It might have been better to market it as Chinese.


The Irish element while appealing to us here and possibly some Irish/American audiences might actually be hurting its appeal to other potential buyers.

Wibbs

dudeeile wrote: »

I honestly prefer the internals in silver, is the gold colour standard now? The front face is looking sweet.

If I were being Mr Picky O'Picky I'd prefer the rotor in silver with the plates gold(or vice versa). Highlight the "killer app" part.

Cienciano

Thirdfox wrote: »

Which goes back to the original problem of some watch buyers (not you guys) thinking "the Chinese only make junk" - because they've only bought or looked at $50 Chinese watches - they then won't consider €400 watches with Chinese movements because of their $50 experiences... but that $50 watch was built to $50 standards - a €399 watch will obviously have a different level of quality (or this SOK version which was intended to be offered at €499 and that's including the salmon leather strap).

I'm glad that I even got a :eek: out of Wibbs - the Chinese can build quality - you just can't expect it in a $50 watch

It's like the Mac vs PC debate. Someone had a €300 acer and was fed up with it so bought a mac for €2,500k, they can't believe how ****ty their PC was compared to the mac :pac: