The kickstarter adventures of Sólás - solaswatches.com

Thirdfox

There are Swiss companies who can make modules that will fit on top of existing movements and integrate with them - but Swiss is Swiss and if a 50g sample of Superluminova (not the high-end X1 stuff) is going to cost me $500 I'll need a healthy amount in Sólás' accounts to attempt the minute repeater project.

There is almost no way I could contemplate going in-house in development - however it may be possible through my long term relationship/connections to persuade a Chinese movement maker to co-research such a movement with shared costs etc.

As Fr. Ted states: The Chinese are a great bunch of lads - you just need to give them the profit motivation to go ahead with something and they'll find a solution. Just currently - no one is willing to pay the X amount an affordable minute repeater from China will cost (it won't be €329 anyway!) Sea-Gull's 18k gold minute repeater costs $50,000 but that's because it's 18k gold and produced by hand (they have one master watchmaker who makes them - would love to meet him one day). IWC's minute repeater in stainless steel costs $50,000 too but the implementation is pretty disappointing (in my eyes) - you can't even see the hammers! I can't promise I'll be able to knock a 0 off that price but that would be the (very) rough aim in terms of "affordable" minute repeater.

Now would many Western people ever consider paying 5k for a Chinese movement watch? Currently probably not - but if Sólás can demonstrate through years of quality watchmaking that yes we can offer dependable and quality movements then perhaps we can be a first in that arena too. If there's a will there's a way I think.

The Swiss might even refuse to put a module on a Chinese movement ha and I would understand it too - need to preserve Swiss exclusivity as much as possible. So it could be that we are forced to go down the pure R&D route rather than module route. Every/anything can be done - you just need to offer the right price.

Shamrock92

Thirdfox wrote: »

There are Swiss companies who can make modules that will fit on top of existing movements and integrate with them - but Swiss is Swiss and if a 50g sample of Superluminova (not the high-end X1 stuff) is going to cost me $500 I'll need a healthy amount in Sólás' accounts to attempt the minute repeater project.

There is almost no way I could contemplate going in-house in development - however it may be possible through my long term relationship/connections to persuade a Chinese movement maker to co-research such a movement with shared costs etc.

As Fr. Ted states: The Chinese are a great bunch of lads - you just need to give them the profit motivation to go ahead with something and they'll find a solution. Just currently - no one is willing to pay the X amount an affordable minute repeater from China will cost (it won't be €329 anyway!) Sea-Gull's 18k gold minute repeater costs $50,000 but that's because it's 18k gold and produced by hand (they have one master watchmaker who makes them - would love to meet him one day). IWC's minute repeater in stainless steel costs $50,000 too but the implementation is pretty disappointing (in my eyes) - you can't even see the hammers! I can't promise I'll be able to knock a 0 off that price but that would be the (very) rough aim in terms of "affordable" minute repeater.

Now would many Western people ever consider paying 5k for a Chinese movement watch? Currently probably not - but if Sólás can demonstrate through years of quality watchmaking that yes we can offer dependable and quality movements then perhaps we can be a first in that arena too. If there's a will there's a way I think.

The Swiss might even refuse to put a module on a Chinese movement ha and I would understand it too - need to preserve Swiss exclusivity as much as possible. So it could be that we are forced to go down the pure R&D route rather than module route. Every/anything can be done - you just need to offer the right price.

Very interesting. Shocking to hear the cost of Superluminova :0

The minute repeater is not something I know much about, not have I seen one in the flesh, excluding my Breitling But definitely a very interesting and unique complication.

The path Solas is on is certainly an exciting one. I hope this are going well in the lead up to the Starlight

Thirdfox

Well it has been described as "noisy lume" (which is fair ha) - but it's something that's personally fascinated me - I love music too so it's a natural fit.

50g of superluminova will get you pretty far in terms of how many hands/indices you can paint. But it probably helps explain why so many Chinese Aliexpress brands have poor lume - need to apply 7-10 thick layers for good performing lume and it's expensive.

Microbrands maybe making 2-4x manufacturing cost to turn a profit for themselves. For these factory brands they probably operate at 6-10x manufacturing cost - so if it's a $100 watch they are selling it costs them $10-16 to make and even a few cents/dollars will affect manufacturing cost significantly (and have a snowball effect on overall costs when they add in shipping, taxes, returns etc.)

blue5000

Thirdfox wrote: »

There are Swiss companies who can make modules that will fit on top of existing movements and integrate with them - but Swiss is Swiss and if a 50g sample of Superluminova (not the high-end X1 stuff) is going to cost me $500 I'll need a healthy amount in Sólás' accounts to attempt the minute repeater project.

There is almost no way I could contemplate going in-house in development - however it may be possible through my long term relationship/connections to persuade a Chinese movement maker to co-research such a movement with shared costs etc.

As Fr. Ted states: The Chinese are a great bunch of lads - you just need to give them the profit motivation to go ahead with something and they'll find a solution. Just currently - no one is willing to pay the X amount an affordable minute repeater from China will cost (it won't be €329 anyway!) Sea-Gull's 18k gold minute repeater costs $50,000 but that's because it's 18k gold and produced by hand (they have one master watchmaker who makes them - would love to meet him one day). IWC's minute repeater in stainless steel costs $50,000 too but the implementation is pretty disappointing (in my eyes) - you can't even see the hammers! I can't promise I'll be able to knock a 0 off that price but that would be the (very) rough aim in terms of "affordable" minute repeater.

Now would many Western people ever consider paying 5k for a Chinese movement watch? Currently probably not - but if Sólás can demonstrate through years of quality watchmaking that yes we can offer dependable and quality movements then perhaps we can be a first in that arena too. If there's a will there's a way I think.

The Swiss might even refuse to put a module on a Chinese movement ha and I would understand it too - need to preserve Swiss exclusivity as much as possible. So it could be that we are forced to go down the pure R&D route rather than module route. Every/anything can be done - you just need to offer the right price.

Lots of people probably do, but they just don't know it yet.:pac:

Fitz II

Plenty of Chinese 5k tourbillions out there, see them being pushed from time to time.

Thirdfox

Ah but most of them (the base movements at least) can be had for roughly 500 dollars on Aliexpress too (QC will probably be a lot more suspect).

The 5k tourbillons are using similar cost movements - but the movement might not be the main cost in a 5k watch - you'd hope there are other elements that make it worthwhile to pay that price (i.e. full sapphire case - and yes that is very expensive - cost price is in thousand+ not hundred+ arena). I saw one which had a wandering hours mated with tourbillon and exotic dials etc. - up to each individual to consider if that's worth the asking price or not.

And while I can understand to an extent some brands wanting to "hide" their Chinese movement origins "Check out the Sólás calibre S-01A5!!!" instead of just saying yeah - it's a Hangzhou 5000A (due to some biases against Chinese movements) I want to it to be out there quite clearly that it's a Chinese movement and the quality is still there. That's not to say I won't be asking for a heavy ebauché for the next model - so that it won't be off the shelf from Hangzhou.

@Blue - yeah probably less Chinese movements for now (especially since Soprod/Sellita/ETA are still providing access/cost effective movements) but bracelets, crystals, cases? I say a lot of people are wearing Chinese made components on their Swiss watches...and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that! I was a keen photographer previously and there was a kerfuffle when Nikon moved some lens manufacturing to Vietnam/China etc. from Japan - but the lenses were produced to the same specs - once QC, training and the machinery was there - what difference does it make where the actual components were made?

^ Because this could be interpreted in a few ways - 1) you want to make it a lot cheaper to make i.e. beyond a cost of labour issue and yes quality will fall if you use lesser components, don't do as much QC etc. - but that's something that should be reflected in the end price i.e. you get what you pay for and that's not the fault of the Vietnamese workers or 2) there's a potential hint of racial undertones in suggesting the Vietnamese/Chinese etc. workers aren't "smart/good" enough to know how to make good products which I consider crazy - especially in quite automated industries like camera lenses or watchmaking (bar doing hand engraving and other such delicate tasks) it's not rocket science (mostly) and there are plenty of people who can be trained up to fantastic standards.

...of course it could be 3) - people will start wondering why are they paying "Swiss prices" if a lot of components are being made in China - but that's not fair as stated before - if you want to have the high level of QC, components etc. - you have to pay for it (up to a certain extent when you start paying for the brand's value).

@Fitz - if you're thinking of getting a Chinese 5k tourbillon (and there are ones that are very much worth the asking price) I'd suggest looking at Beijing Watch's tourbillons - in-house movement and pretty unique design:
http://www.beijingwatch.com/item/312 - it's 3.6k euro and discounts are of course available (free sprung balance, flying tourbillon).
grey market - 2.2k euro - https://www.good-stuffs.com/Beijing-city-and-moat-subject-tourbillon-BG080503-BG080505_p_509.html

Or this gyrotourbillon which at 65k euro new (before discount) is less than half of the cheapest 2nd hand JLC gyrotourbillon at 150k euro:
http://en.beijingwatch.com/item/45
https://www.chrono24.com/search/index.htm?QOr=1&accessoryTypes=&dosearch=true&filterAliasIds=113&functions=1014&manufacturerIds=127&query=Jaeger-LeCoultre+Gyrotourbillon&replacedQuery=Jaeger-LeCoultre&searchexplain=true&showpage=2&sortorder=1&watchTypes=U&SETLANG=en_US&SETCURR=EUR

^ just that most Western audiences have no idea that people in China are making (and buying) these sort of watches - and if you show the average person that BJWAF gyrotourbillon they might still say something like "looks like a Walmart watch" :pac:

Thirdfox

Happy weekend all!

We're within touching distance of 600 followers on the pre-launch page and have around 12 reviews to be published - I think it's probably safe to say we'll be above 600 by the time we launch in around 19 days' time.

Took a quick video of the watch in my kitchen to show off what it looks like to the eye under distant LED lighting (rather than say Hollywood lighting found in those high end reviewer videos ):

Couldn't resist showing off the micro-rotor too

Thirdfox

We have climbed over the 600 follower mark (what I regard as a "safe" number for success based on our MOQ that the project is likely to meet its funding goal - which I've recalculated somewhat too and set at the truly absolute minimal level I think is needed to get out of the red for Sólás) - as stated this time it will be all or nothing so the absolute full efforts will be made in relation to the re-launch.

One super exciting thing I can share now with 18 days to go is the revamped KS launch page (this is a preview and can be accessed but obviously you can't make any pledges until the actual launch of the campaign) - feedback can be left via this link too:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/solaswatches/solas-starlight-an-irish-affordable-micro-rotor-watch?ref=477wto&token=61b96c43

Things may be subject to change but it is likely to be minor tweaks now. Little over 2 weeks to go to launch

Edit: just to say I've checked the site on my mobile and there will be more photos of the watch added to the launch page definitely.

Thirdfox

More photos added - including this one I made which hopefully shows prospective people what aventurine will look like day to day and also in "full glow":

Thirdfox

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ENLOONG-Customized-Luxury-Mechanical-Movement-Automatic_62424696260.html

Interestingly the movement is available for retail purchase now online.

$170 for one movement shipped to the US vs €329-399 for a full watch - (retail price can't be compared to the bulk costs of course) - but people can get an idea of what kind of limited profits Sólás is looking to make with the Starlight.

The example is just used to give people an idea what a seller considers a "commercial profit" individual movement should be sold for

Thirdfox

And as we get to 15 days before launch (621 followers) took advantage of the sunshine we had over the weekend to get some more shots of the watch out and about (and also inside too) - most of these shots give a pretty realistic representation of what you would see displayed on the dial. Cyclingtourist should be especially happy with the last shot















^ while the Starlight definitely isn't a "sports" watch - it isn't afraid to get a little sporty (MsThirdfox can be seen in the top right corner too )

Shamrock92

Thirdfox wrote: »

And as we get to 15 days before launch (621 followers) took advantage of the sunshine we had over the weekend to get some more shots of the watch out and about (and also inside too) - most of these shots give a pretty realistic representation of what you would see displayed on the dial. Cyclingtourist should be especially happy with the last shot

Snip to save people from scrolling thumb disorder

^ while the Starlight definitely isn't a "sports" watch - it isn't afraid to get a little sporty (MsThirdfox can be seen in the top right corner too )

God I'm mesmerized by the innards of that watch. Also that dial. I'm very much looking forward to seeing one in person.

Cyclingtourist

Thirdfox wrote: »

^ while the Starlight definitely isn't a "sports" watch - it isn't afraid to get a little sporty (MsThirdfox can be seen in the top right corner too )

Very Julian Alaphilippe.

banie01

Removing the border on the date window has really made the dial the star of the show IMO.

A small change but one that somehow really enhances the watch.

Eoin

Agreed, a good decision.

Thirdfox

A new written and video review is out - https://www.beansandbezels.com/reviews/solas-starlight-watch-review/

Shreyas had interviewed me too for an article a few weeks back.

Just to say that one fibre on the backplate issue is something that 1) shouldn't have passed factory QC in China (and they state this unequivocally); 2) definitely wouldn't have passed my QC in Ireland and 3) if it was something that somehow managed to get through 3 sets of QC (Hangzhou, my factory partner and myself) then it would be absolutely grounds to return the watch to me to get a replacement/repair. Though I'm almost 100% certain I would not have let that movement go out with the fibre on it like that if the watches had passed through my hands before going on to the reviewers (which was skipped due to time constraints).

Shreyas was actually pretty understanding when I was speaking to him on the issue - but I want to set a level of standards/expectations that would absolutely rule out something like the fibre on the backplate (especially as we aim to produce even higher quality watches moving forward and standards will be raised further).

RMDrive

Thirdfox wrote: »

A new written and video review is out - https://www.beansandbezels.com/reviews/solas-starlight-watch-review/

Shreyas had interviewed me too for an article a few weeks back.

Just to say that one fibre on the backplate issue is something that 1) shouldn't have passed factory QC in China (and they state this unequivocally); 2) definitely wouldn't have passed my QC in Ireland and 3) if it was something that somehow managed to get through 3 sets of QC (Hangzhou, my factory partner and myself) then it would be absolutely grounds to return the watch to me to get a replacement/repair. Though I'm almost 100% certain I would not have let that movement go out with the fibre on it like that if the watches had passed through my hands before going on to the reviewers (which was skipped due to time constraints).

Shreyas was actually pretty understanding when I was speaking to him on the issue - but I want to set a level of standards/expectations that would absolutely rule out something like the fibre on the backplate (especially as we aim to produce even higher quality watches moving forward and standards will be raised further).

Great review! Thought it was fair and balanced and reinforced my (already made) decision to buy one.

Dev1234

RMDrive wrote: »

Great review! Thought it was fair and balanced and reinforced my (already made) decision to buy one.

Was about the post the same comment. Also great to see it on a couple of different straps!!

This is it

Really liked the denim strap on it

Ryath

This is it wrote: »

Really liked the denim strap on it

They look great. Come in a good range of widths and lengths to.

https://delugs.com/collections/ready-stock-straps/products/denim-babele-leather-slim-strap?variant=31993809666161

Thirdfox

It's very likely the salmon leather straps from Sólás will be available in the future at 56 euro (ex VAT - 70 euro VAT inclusive) so that might be worth considering too.

Though once you feel how comfortable the Horween is (due in part to the cost saving measure of having it single sided so suede is resting on the wrist) you actually might not want to "upgrade" to a more expensive strap (Msthirdfox and I both agree that the salmon leather looks cooler - but the single sided Horween actually despite being cheaper to manufacture, is more comfortable and keeps the whole watch/strap set up a super light 60g).

So advantages to both

Eoin

I had a denim strap made by martu straps and it's so comfortable

SnowyMay

RMDrive wrote: »

Great review! Thought it was fair and balanced and reinforced my (already made) decision to buy one.

Same regarding reinforcing my (already made) decision to buy one.

In fairness, any criticisms in a review sometimes have to be made to ensure an unbiased opinion, but I felt like giving out to the reviewer sometimes as it almost seemed like nit picking. But, that is his job.

So, this is a small thing, but just wondering how the suede finish on the underside of the straps deals with water (other than getting wet ).

Pretty cool to hear that the salmon straps may become available in the future!

Thirdfox

Answering your question first - suede and leather should be kept away from water in general. Now humans will naturally sweat so the suede will darken over time (it starts as a light brown, will end up being coffee/dark brown) - but it will be very comfortable as the leather will conform to the wrist shape and generally maintain that shape too over time.

The suede has almost no "breaking in time" - that you'd need with the stiffer salmon strap. The salmon strap will take longer to conform to one's wrist shape but the Horween one is just super pliable.

As for the review - ah no - Shreyas is a good 'un - the review was very fair - macro shots will give all watches a tough time (Rolexs, Pateks etc. included) - and once you zoom in you'll see that the geneve style striping is only geneve style rather than hand finishing... though I doubt anyone is truly expecting hand finishing at the prices of a Starlight. The same thing as guilloche stamping versus true guilloche on a rose engine - very few people can afford to pay the prices to have someone spend hours to finish movements by hand (Rolex certainly don't do that for their mass produced watches and we don't expect them to either).

I did say to Shreyas that as we want to go up the value chain (as this will give me ability to do even more interesting things) QC and the level of finishing on the micro scale will be very important to me too - so at the current price point that fibre is unacceptable. By the next price point hopefully the marks on the hands will disappear too. The marks on the hands/indices are unlikely to be seen by eye already but it is all about paying for that next level standard of QC and standards (i.e. you need to pay quite a bit more to get just a tiny bit of improvement) - but if we are to be trusted to produce proper tourbillons and repeater watches then the QC levels has to match those complications too. Things like rhodium coating of hands, micro facets of polished indices etc. - the little things that you might spot when you compare watches side by side.

636 followers as of tonight, 2 weeks to go and around 10 reviews left to be published - all very positive metrics

Thirdfox

10ish days to launch and I think 2-3 reviews might come out today, with the vast majority of them coming out over the course of next week too.

Up at 650 followers on the KS page which is really great. And something that's really heartening to see is the number of Facebook watch collector groups who were willing to put the Starlight up as the banner photo too (collectively they have around 50k members) and I'm touched to see that the admins/mods of the groups trust Sólás enough to have it be something that is endorsed by them too:

Thirdfox

Just finished a 1.5 hour interview with the guys at 40 and 20 podcast (see here):
https://the40and20podcast.podbean.com/

Apparently this will be out next Thursday - some highlights include me explaining how syphilis influenced court dress codes, seeing if the Starlight "will blend" in a Tec Blender (famous for their "will it blend") advertorials on Youtube, and cannibalism on greyhound buses...oh and some watch talk too

Will be sure to link up their podcast once it comes out - I think it does go a little further into the "why" I went ahead with the Starlight and Sólás.

Thirdfox

Andrew from 555 gear has put up a review of the Starlight here

nj27

Just dipping in to say I’m massively impressed by the whole project. Handsome watch and really appreciate seeing an Irish watch on the market.

Thirdfox

Justthewatch Dave is doing a premier *right now* - I just happened to notice it so I'm on live chat if anyone wants to hop on:

edit:
and we've passed over the devil's mark now (another cultural quip - in China 666 is considered a super lucky number...over here in Ireland - obviously less so )

Thirdfox

We're at 680 followers now and KS has a new feature which allows add-ons so if people want to get a second Starlight model they can do so easily.

I had a think about what a second model should be priced at and ultimately decided to go with €339 for a second model (and €5 increased postage for rest of world, no increase for Ireland) as I feel that if people want to support Sólás immensely by getting a second, or third, or 10 (that's the limit I think ) then it would be best that for the vast majority of backers that this would represent a discount. For the 50 backers who got the €329 price hopefully it won't cause too much gnashing of teeth if a second unit is €10 more as hopefully they can see that €329 is a *really* low price for what they are getting already.

And just to expand on what €549 means in reality - after the kickstarter finishes we will need to start charging VAT on sales - so that €549 to Irish/EU customers means it's a €446.35 (ex VAT) price for non-EU customers and €549 after adding on 23% VAT. Currently VAT rate is 21% so it would mean the Starlight would be €540.08 after VAT.

It kinda also shows what a good deal Irish/EU backers are getting as a once off because if VAT needed to be charged on the Starlight it would make it €399 at the lowest to €482 at the highest pledge level. For all future models VAT will need to be accounted for too.

The reviews are coming thick and fast now - here's the Time Bum's review:
http://www.thetimebum.com/2020/10/solas-starlight.html

Sólás set out to do what hasn’t been done since about 1975: bring a micro-rotor to market at a sub-luxury price and they have 100% succeeded. Not only that, they did it with an aventurine dial. The Starlight is well constructed, great to wear, and absolutely unique in the crowded microbrand market place. This is a lot of watch for the money and those who chose to back the Kickstarter are unlikely to be disappointed with their choice.