Room to Improve (v2)

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633644#Comment_121633644

That escalated quickly.

You are now alleging corruption on a Haughey scale?

I'm out. Carry on. 😁😁

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633706#Comment_121633706

No, not at all, I never alleged anything. I just remarked of the unusual phrase " I have had meetings with ministers, senior civil servants etc down the line...nothing unusual" before, or words to that effect, and i think it was the late great Ben Dunne who uttered those words.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633644#Comment_121633644

This discussion has nothing to do with Ben Dunne.

I'm telling you that meetings like the Dermot Bannon one happen all the time.

In Government buildings, in Department offices etc. etc.

I'm basing that statement on years of personal experience.

Kincora2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633457#Comment_121633457

This is not accurate. You’re referring to a document that is one way, almost definitely the most common way, of complying with the Building Regulations. There are other ways that you can comply with the Regs.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633244#Comment_121633244

RTE is a public service broadcaster. It’s on this that it gets a fairly hearty annual subvention of tax payers money. All programmes can be presented in an entertaining way but this RTI programme was NOT in the same category as a PAt Shortt or Mrs Brown’s Boys presentation. My understanding was that the current run of RTI programme was to ‘MAJOR’ on highlighting the grants available for renovations in some cases and bringing derilect houses back onto the market - in other words supporting an aspect of gov policy.

but what a mess we have been subjected to - UNLESS Dermot COMES BACK AND EXPLAINS HIMSELF

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633803#Comment_121633803

The regs say, for example "Stairs should have a handrail on at least one side if it is 1000 mm wide or less. It should have a handrail on both sides if it is wider. The top surface of the handrail should be between 900 mm and 1000 mm measured vertically above the pitch line, and between 900 mm and 1100 mm above the landing, Handrails should give firm support. A handrail may form the top of the guarding if the height is suitable (refer to Diagram 6). The handrail should be so constructed and fitted as to be capable of being readily gripped by hand and safely used. Handrails may not be necessary beside the two bottom steps of private stairs."

What other ways can you comply with the regs? We are all ears.

Kincora2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633816#Comment_121633816

This is not the Regs. This is a Technical guidance document (TGD) for how you might comply with the Regs. There are other ways to comply with the Building Regs outside of the TGD, but require a level of professional opinion and possibly taking on an element of risk.

for instance, if you do everything exactly as set out in the TGD, you have definitely complied with the Building Regs. If you do something different to the THD, then there is a risk that you might not be complying but that falls within your professional judgement.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633811#Comment_121633811

And it fully fulfilled that remit - i.e. highlighting what grants are available.

There is a 'mess' created by a mix of conspiracy fantasising and derision based on jealousy/begrudgery and not a single shred of any proof yet that anything untoward went on here.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633613#Comment_121633613

I never said they don't happen. I have dealing with several Departments, TDs etc

Thats why I know of the difficulties of getting information and/or decisions out of them. The more people you know the easier it comes. Especially over time as people you know get promoted up the ranks and/or you bump into them socially when out and about.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633613#Comment_121633613

If the average architect rang up the Department with a query about a grant, they'd be told to read the documents online or contact the local authority. There's no way that the average architect would be invited to a meeting with the Minister's advisor and officials.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633895#Comment_121633895

I'm no fan of Darragh O'Brien's but to a department wanting to get information out there, Dermot Bannon (and his reach) is hardly an 'average' architect.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633874#Comment_121633874

So we are agreed then that when DB said there was no big deal about the meeting he was correct ?

He may or may not be relying on personal contacts by the way, though as you say they can be helpful.

At the end of the day if you have your preparation done properly and the person across the table is well briefed a successful outcome is more likely.

It's how they get things done even though they don't always get done as smoothly as we'd like.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633943#Comment_121633943

He is using his position as an RTE 'Talent' to work the system.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633895#Comment_121633895

I don't know exactly why they met with DB but it was possibly because they considered it beneficial to their interests.

Like I said they hold meetings with people all the time for all sorts of purposes.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633969#Comment_121633969

Are you saying he used the meeting to get grants the couple were not entitled to and the Minister and Department facilitated this 'working of the system'?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633917#Comment_121633917

They got no information out there, except a vague sense that the rules about derelict grants don't seem to apply. Was this what they were trying to get out?

Departments have communications teams, Ministers have communications advisors, government has gov.ie website.

If they want to 'get information out there', they went about it ass-about-face.

'Celebs' should not be getting special treatment by government departments.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634005#Comment_121634005

Ok, it was a 'part' of getting the information out there.* A valuable part as RTI has a big following. The only people who seem to be confused are those who, despite the definitions being pointed out several times, insist on using their own definitions of the terms/criteria and those who are suffering from the belief they can diagnose structural issues from photographs.

*Do I seriously need to explain this?

So he's a 'celeb' now? A while ago he was a professional who should be explaining every dot and dash of detailed regulations to de ordinary people in an hour long show branded as entertainment. 😁

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633969#Comment_121633969

The system is there to be worked.

What were you or I doing going to meetings only looking for some sort of result.

If we weren't we'd be better off to stay in the bar in Buswells.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634005#Comment_121634005

It's not special treatment holding a meeting with someone which might be mutually beneficial.

I'm not a celeb and lots of doors opened to me.

bigslick

Unfortunately a very frustrating episode for my partner and I, as we are in a similar situation to this couple (similar age bungalow, zero insulation, requirement to replumb and rewire, replace all floors due to rot). We have had to massively restrict any form of renovation and opening up of spaces as just the retrofit is exorbitantly high. Even this we have had to cut back due to budget and in doing so we dont qualify for many of the SEAI grant (couple of hundred euro for heating controls).

Given this we found it so frustrating when the woman kept adding and adding and adding to the budget with additional items, as if there was an never flowing amount of money. Really felt heart breaking that we are unable to do the basic retrofit and others are adding on patios and extra bedrooms on a whim.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633613#Comment_121633613

QED if you /were a minister, minister of state , senior civil servant, somebody of importance, a very wealthy person, etc, etc..

AND , by the way, if any one of the boardies here were in Dermot’s shoes and was going to meet the minister for housing what would be your agenda/discussion points - knowing what we now know about the ‘ evidence presented’ to us so far. If I was in his shoes I would be trying to have the regs around the derilect / unoccupied rules a bit more relaxed

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633761#Comment_121633761

The issue is not that there was a meeting with the minister , the issue is what was discussed?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634202#Comment_121634202

I know several in a similar position to you. Were you able to avail of the vacant or derelict home grant?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634202#Comment_121634202

And in the two episodes shown so far this year, the more grants the couples discovered they could get, the fancier and more expensive the extension got. And so it transpired: the couples ended up with a bigger / fancier Dermot Bannon glass box extension and a much bigger budget than originally envisaged.

Some would say what you need is an RTE talent or someone in the know to "work the system" so you need not comply with full planning permission, building regulations or the conditions of the grant for a "Vacant" and "Derelict" house grant.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634004#Comment_121634004

We are all entitled to voice our opinions on here , IN PRINCIPAL. The majority of us can ignore those trolling, making irrelevant remarks, being nasty , etc. I think the answer to your question will be settled by the county Council or/and SEAI taking the grant issue up if the couple have received the grant

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634324#Comment_121634324

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634358#Comment_121634358

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at but if you think DB was lobbying for change in regs. he'd need to make a lobbying return.

You can check here -

https://www.lobbying.ie/

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634493#Comment_121634493

What?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633895#Comment_121633895

Not only that, but the Irish Independent said it was the TV producer who contacted the Minister's adviser, and got a private meeting. He did not just contact the department, he contacted the Minister's adviser.

To put it in context, In a report not long ago (2023) it was revealed that the average waiting time for a pre-planning meeting with a local council.is 141 days. That is almost 5 months.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/enniscorthy-news/questions-asked-over-waiting-times-for-pre-planning-meetings-141-days-is-a-very-long-wait/a1544540750.html

And I know people who sought a meeting - not with a Ministers adviser but just with anyone in the local council, - and it took longer.

And not only that, but after a meeting between Dermot Bannon (and his Q.S. Ms Irwin ) and the Minister's adviser , you would expect the "Room to Improve" team to be - at the least - well briefed on grants.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dermot-bannon-received-private-briefing-with-department-of-housing-about-government-grant/a2091472117.html

The meeting, we are told, took place in Sept. 2022, so the "Room to Improve" team should have known all about the grants for the show 11 days ago?

Then in the Room to Improve just eleven days ago, we see Dermot telling the couple they would be entitled to the first time buyers grant, as well as the other grants - for the house they inherited. FFS, a 16 year old transition school kid could do better.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634464#Comment_121634464

Are we being taken for ejits?.The current series was to major/highlight the current grants available. Secondly , the first thought on Bannon’s mind when meeting the ‘clients ‘ for the first time would be to find out the budget they have in mind and what do they want done for that budget. He would then get established /clarified if it is net of grant. DB would , at that stage, have known what grants the project would be eligible for - such information/ knowledge on it is NOT ROCkET SCIENCE. DB now knows the total budget available and come back with suggested plans accordingly. D , being a sharp cookie - must be , based on having dearth with numerous clients - would have a fair idea if there is more money there that the clients could come up with. Lo and behold the husband got promotion during the build which meant an extra €20,000 a year.

it will be of interest if the ‘ case ‘ is objectively examined and we find out that the whole project has been found to by ‘ right and correct’

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634031#Comment_121634031

Yes, he's a celeb. Professional architects don't generally have Noel Kelly as their agent.

There was absolutely no clarity in the show about how the grant works. If this was part of a communication initiative by the Department, the output was completely ham fisted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121634042#Comment_121634042

It's up to those IN the system, the Ministers, the advisors, the officials, to make sure they're not being worked by outsiders.

I don't actually blame Bannon or the producers for asking for a meeting. I DO blame Ministers and advisers for doing a favour for a celeb.