Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Eod100

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't see anyone stopping Lowe making the Ireland team when he's IQ, he'll walk into the side.

When is he IQ again, next March? Probably be too late for 6N but be interesting to see if he is in squad for summer series.

Interested Observer

Eod100 wrote: »

When is he IQ again, next March? Probably be too late for 6N but be interesting to see if he is in squad for summer series.

November 2020 he's eligible.

Eod100

Interested Observer wrote: »

November 2020 he's eligible.

Ah you're right. signed in March but only came over in November.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

Kleyn getting the nod ahead of Toner was a farce. I'm neither Leinster nor Munster so have no dog in the fight from a provincial perspective.

There is a part of me that want's to label it not just as a farce, but as an utter disgrace given the commitment Toner gave to Ireland over a long period of time. I was plenty salty about it but gave the benefit of the doubt as I expect that Joe schmidt interprets data better than I do. I actually thought the bigger call was Marmion but Toner was a close second.

I don't think it's fair to call time on Klyne's international career nor on his commitment to Ireland based on a period of time when the Irish team manufactured a loss to Japan. I abandoned all expectation after that game as it exemplified a loss of form from which we were unlikely to recover from.

I still believe that Joe is the best coach in world rugby. If he returns to the game I'd almost rather it was with with a province as I'd fear a coach of his calibre unleashed by the absence of public expectation which overshadowed his final year with Ireland.

And yet at the same time I'd wish him the best as he did a huge amount for Irish rugby on the field and an award worthy amount for Ireland off it.

A quality human being who I have huge admiration for.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a part of me that want's to label it not just as a farce, but as an utter disgrace given the commitment Toner gave to Ireland over a long period of time. I was plenty salty about it but gave the benefit of the doubt as I expect that Joe schmidt interprets data better than I do. I actually thought the bigger call was Marmion but Toner was a close second.

I don't think it's fai to call time on Klyne's international career nor on his commitment to Ireland based on a period of time when the Irish team manufactured a loss to Japan. I abandoned all expectation after that game as it exemplified a loss of form from which we were unlikely to recover from.

I still believe that Joe is the best coach in world rugby. If he returns to the game I'd almost rather it was with with a province as I'd fear a coach of his calibre unleashed by the absence of public expectation which overshadowed his final year with Ireland.

And yet at the same time I'd wish him the best as he did a huge amount for Irish rugby on the field and an award worthy amount for Ireland off it.

A quality human being who I have huge admiration for.

I wouldnt call him the best coach. Some of the last year really showed that he isnt. He got so much wrong this year and If he does come back into fold in pro rugby coaching he will learn a lot.
I wouldnt call it a farce. It was part of evolving everything Ireland were doig and unfortunately toner didnt play a part in it.

Dubinusa

He's not close to being the best coach! The last year proved it. He failed to see or alter what was in front of him! Anyone could see our performance was atrocious and easily read.
He did have a great record as our coach! The blemish was this past year, which was awful! A coach who can't see or change what's in front of him, is certainly lacking imo!
The past year in reality was a shocking loss of cohesion, tactics and coaching! The burden lays with Schmidt!

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a part of me that want's to label it not just as a farce, but as an utter disgrace given the commitment Toner gave to Ireland over a long period of time. I was plenty salty about it but gave the benefit of the doubt as I expect that Joe schmidt interprets data better than I do. I actually thought the bigger call was Marmion but Toner was a close second.

I don't think it's fair to call time on Klyne's international career nor on his commitment to Ireland based on a period of time when the Irish team manufactured a loss to Japan. I abandoned all expectation after that game as it exemplified a loss of form from which we were unlikely to recover from.

I still believe that Joe is the best coach in world rugby. If he returns to the game I'd almost rather it was with with a province as I'd fear a coach of his calibre unleashed by the absence of public expectation which overshadowed his final year with Ireland.

And yet at the same time I'd wish him the best as he did a huge amount for Irish rugby on the field and an award worthy amount for Ireland off it.

A quality human being who I have huge admiration for.

Lot of respect for Joe
2019 most definitely will define his time as Ireland coach

Best coach in the world is Warren Gatland.

stephen_n

Interested Observer wrote: »

It pretty clearly was on, just needed to make a better pass.

It wasn’t a pass, it was a one arm lob, which is exactly why it wasn’t on.

Everyone can see how good Lowe is, there isn’t another winger in the country on his level. However those mistakes will be punished a lot quicker at international level. It’s not a case of he shouldn’t be picked because of them, just an aspect of his game he needs to work on.

thebaz

Interested Observer wrote: »

Yeah he's talked about it alright.

I'm sure he grew up dreaming of playing for Ireland ????

He is an excellent rugby player , but I thought he saw himself more as a Kiwi than Irish ???

Dubinusa

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Lot of respect for Joe
2019 most definitely will define his time as Ireland coach

Best coach in the world is Warren Gatland.

For me, it's Rassie! Head and shoulders above everybody else

Granny15

Dubinusa wrote: »

He's not close to being the best coach! The last year proved it. He failed to see or alter what was in front of him! Anyone could see our performance was atrocious and easily read.
He did have a great record as our coach! The blemish was this past year, which was awful! A coach who can't see or change what's in front of him, is certainly lacking imo!
The past year in reality was a shocking loss of cohesion, tactics and coaching! The burden lays with Schmidt!

He was the perfect fit for Ireland and the attitude players brought to that. They totally bought into his philosophy and he led like the school headmaster that he is -strict but fair. He tried some things based on his best judgement which didn’t come off such as Henshaw to fullback but he did try and change things around. I think we have limited players in each position in Ireland 4 each position one from each province hardly a great hand as a coach to get. What he did with that lack of depth was phenomenal. He saw the bigger picture and was our best coach ever.

Interested Observer

thebaz wrote: »

I'm sure he grew up dreaming of playing for Ireland ????

He is an excellent rugby player , but I thought he saw himself more as a Kiwi than Irish ???

None of this has the slightest bit of relevance as to whether he'll play for Ireland or not.

thebaz

Interested Observer wrote: »

None of this has the slightest bit of relevance as to whether he'll play for Ireland or not.

you were the one who stated he wanted to play for Ireland - I questioned this - he is a great player for Leinster , but surly he should play for NZ , if he is good eneogh

Paul Smeenus

Deleted User wrote: »

There is a part of me that want's to label it not just as a farce, but as an utter disgrace given the commitment Toner gave to Ireland over a long period of time. I was plenty salty about it but gave the benefit of the doubt as I expect that Joe schmidt interprets data better than I do. I actually thought the bigger call was Marmion but Toner was a close second.

I don't think it's fair to call time on Klyne's international career nor on his commitment to Ireland based on a period of time when the Irish team manufactured a loss to Japan. I abandoned all expectation after that game as it exemplified a loss of form from which we were unlikely to recover from.

I still believe that Joe is the best coach in world rugby. If he returns to the game I'd almost rather it was with with a province as I'd fear a coach of his calibre unleashed by the absence of public expectation which overshadowed his final year with Ireland.

And yet at the same time I'd wish him the best as he did a huge amount for Irish rugby on the field and an award worthy amount for Ireland off it.

A quality human being who I have huge admiration for.

No player's commitment buys them anything. It turns out Kleyn was very poor, but Toner was as well before the RWC. He was really not good.

Interested Observer

thebaz wrote: »

you were the one who stated he wanted to play for Ireland - I questioned this - he is a great player for Leinster , but surly he should play for NZ , if he is good eneogh

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/rugby/james-lowe-ireland-rugby-205999

hahashake

Interested Observer wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/rugby/james-lowe-ireland-rugby-205999

"Obviously," he adds, "with the contract it was like, 'We want you, in three years' time, to play for Ireland'. That was kind of the reasoning why I was offered [what I was] for someone in my position, who hadn't been an All Black yet.

Dirty business.:p

Interested Observer

hahashake wrote: »

Dirty business.:p

Yes it is, I don't like 'buying' players for the national team at all but it's the situation we're in.

Granny15

Interested Observer wrote: »

Yes it is, I don't like 'buying' players for the national team at all but it's the situation we're in.

Why not NZ have built their success on it bringing in islanders etc.

thebaz

Interested Observer wrote: »

Yes it is, I don't like 'buying' players for the national team at all but it's the situation we're in.

There you said it - buying players - I just feal for someone like Andrew Conway who actually dreamed of playing for Ireland, unlike Lowe who dreamed of playing for NZ , and will have less chance of doing so cause of this buying players policy in rugby.

Interested Observer

thebaz wrote: »

There you said it - buying players - I just feal for someone like Andrew Conway who actually dreamed of playing for Ireland, unlike Lowe who dreamed of playing for NZ , and will have less chance of doing so cause of this buying players policy in rugby.

This is old ground really. Stander, Kleyn, Payne, etc.

Buer

Granny15 wrote: »

Why not NZ have built their success on it bringing in islanders etc.

We got so close to making it through a calendar year without this falsity being posted!

is_that_so

thebaz wrote: »

There you said it - buying players - I just feal for someone like Andrew Conway who actually dreamed of playing for Ireland, unlike Lowe who dreamed of playing for NZ , and will have less chance of doing so cause of this buying players policy in rugby.

Conway is a more reliable option than Lowe. What Lowe brings is power running but he is very, very loose and takes silly chances. Conway is more tricky and unpredictable winger and I'd pick him ahead of Lowe for Ireland.

bilston

Interested Observer wrote: »

This is old ground really. Stander, Kleyn, Payne, etc.

Yep, Strauss as well, still It might be old ground but it doesn't make it right.

That said once Lowe makes his debut and plays well, people will soon forget. I don't think of Stander, Payne and Aki as anything other Irish rugby players (or a coach in the case of Payne) now, but before they started playing it didn't sit well with me.

Eod100

bilston wrote: »

Yep, Strauss as well, still It might be old ground but it doesn't make it right.

That said once Lowe makes his debut and plays well, people will soon forget. I don't think of Stander, Payne and Aki as anything other Irish rugby players (or a coach in the case of Payne) now, but before they started playing it didn't sit well with me.

Well it's particularly old ground because rules have already changed and Lowe will be one of last players to qualify by 3 year rule.

bilston

Eod100 wrote: »

Well it's particularly old ground because rules have already changed and Lowe will be one of last players to qualify by 3 year rule.

I know the rules have changed but Lowe is still benefitting from the old rules so it remains a valid discussion whether it is old ground or not.

Ultimately it's all irrelevant, Robert Balacoune will soon take Lowe's place anyway

Eod100

bilston wrote: »

I know the rules have changed but Lowe is still benefitting from the old rules so it remains a valid discussion whether it is old ground or not.

Ultimately it's all irrelevant, Robert Balacoune will soon take Lowe's place anyway

He'll only benefit if selected and won't be until November at earliest so seems a bit premature at this stage either way

Interested Observer

bilston wrote: »

I know the rules have changed but Lowe is still benefitting from the old rules so it remains a valid discussion whether it is old ground or not.

Ultimately it's all irrelevant, Robert Balacoune will soon take Lowe's place anyway

If he's better that's absolutely fine. Been impressed with him this season from the limited amount I've seen.

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

I know the rules have changed but Lowe is still benefitting from the old rules so it remains a valid discussion whether it is old ground or not.

Ultimately it's all irrelevant, Robert Balacoune will soon take Lowe's place anyway

Surely they’re all just placeholders for Sexton.

Squidgy Black

stephen_n wrote: »

Surely they’re all just placeholders for Sexton.

Probably a bit early to be saying that about Johnny's kids but I'm sure they'll be starting soon enough.

bilston

stephen_n wrote: »

Surely they’re all just placeholders for Sexton.

Well this is true. He should be fast tracked into the Lions squad for 2021.

On a more serious note Balacoune looks a class act to me. What is most impressive to me is not even his pace or his finishing ability (which are both excellent), it's his defence, for a 21/22 year old it is really high quality.