Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

troyzer

Interested Observer wrote: »

So?

This might have been a concern a year ago but not really anymore.

I wouldn't say he's an aerial specialist yet but he's not a liability under the high ball anymore.

Bogwoppit

troyzer wrote: »

Zebo just retweeted someone holding a signed jersey of his. Presumably match worn.

It's an XL. He's an outside back wearing an XL and he's not exactly Nadolo.

Crazy stuff.

He’s been piling on the pounds eating all that french cheese.

yerrahbah

troyzer wrote: »

Zebo just retweeted someone holding a signed jersey of his. Presumably match worn.

It's an XL. He's an outside back wearing an XL and he's not exactly Nadolo.

Crazy stuff.

Dont see how that is relevant to the Irish team.

Lucas44

troyzer wrote: »

Zebo just retweeted someone holding a signed jersey of his. Presumably match worn.

It's an XL. He's an outside back wearing an XL and he's not exactly Nadolo.

Crazy stuff.

Considering scrum and outhalves wear a L it’s not exactly crazy stuff now is it

Dubinusa

15. Larmour
14. Conway
13. Ringrose
12. McCloskey
11. Stockdale
10. Byrne
9. Cooney
8. Stander
7. VDF
6. Ruddock (capt)
5. Ryan
4. Henderson
3. Moore
2. Scannell
1. Healy

16. Cronin/ Kelleher if fit
17. Kilcoyne
18. Furlong / Porter
19. Dillane
20. Doris / Deegan / JOD
21. Blade
22 Burns/ Carberry
23. Addison

My top 23 so far.

shootermacg

Dubinusa wrote: »

15. Larmour
14. Conway
13. Ringrose
12. McCloskey
11. Stockdale
10. Byrne
9. Cooney
8. Stander
7. VDF
6. Ruddock (capt)
5. Ryan
4. Henderson
3. Moore
2. Scannell
1. Healy

16. Cronin/ Kelleher if fit
17. Kilcoyne
18. Furlong / Porter
19. Dillane
20. Doris / Deegan / JOD
21. Blade
22 Burns/ Carberry
23. Addison

My top 23 so far.

Might be controversial but I wouldn't start Hendo, maybe an impact sub, but he did nothing to impress in the WC. I'd have either Toner or Kleyn ahead of him.

Moore at 3? Would give it to Porter or an Furlong (if his form picks up).

Faugheen

shootermacg wrote: »

Might be controversial but I wouldn't start Hendo, maybe an impact sub, but he did nothing to impress in the WC. I'd have either Toner or Kleyn ahead of him.

Moore at 3? Would give it to Porter or an Furlong (if his form picks up).

I’d still have Henderson over Toner and Kleyn. He was outstanding yesterday.

Agree with Moore too. He’s had a great season but Porter or Furlong for me.

That team is missing Dave Kearney.

Clegg

Deegan or Doris could easily start at 8 for Ireland. They've both in white hot form.

Clegg

Add Ruddock to that list of players in great form. We've some great depth at blindside and 8 now. Whether you want to integrate Doris or Deegan now and have Stander at 8, or put Ruddock at 6 and keep CJ there you can. But there's absolutely no reason to have POM there now.

Faugheen

Clegg wrote: »

Add Ruddock to that list of players in great form. We've some great depth at blindside and 8 now. Whether you want to integrate Doris or Deegan now and have Stander at 8, or put Ruddock at 6 and keep CJ there you can. But there's absolutely no reason to have POM there now.

Especially now that VDF has emerged as a viable poaching option.

Clegg

After the Christmas interpros

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Furlong
4. Toner
5. Ryan
6. Ruddock
7. VDF
8. Stander
9. Cooney
10. Sexton (Byrne if not)
11. Stockdale
12. McCloskey
13. Ringrose
14. Conway
15. Larmour

16. Scannell
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Henderson
20. Doris/Deegan
21. McGrath
22. Byrne
23. Henshaw

Faugheen

I would personally go with

15. Larmour
14. Conway
13. Ringrose
12. McCloskey
11. Kearney Stockdale
10. Byrne (assuming Sexton isn’t available)
9. Cooney
1. Healy
2. Scannell (assuming Kelleher isn’t fit)
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Ruddock (c)
7. Van Der Flier
8. Stander

16. Cronin
17. Kilcoyne
18. Porter
19. Toner
20. Deegan
21. McGrath
22. Carbery
23. Henshaw

bilston

He wasn't in the "stocktake" but Sean Reidy has had a great Christmas/New Year at 7 for Ulster. He is a very underrated player.

bilston

shootermacg wrote: »

Might be controversial but I wouldn't start Hendo, maybe an impact sub, but he did nothing to impress in the WC. I'd have either Toner or Kleyn ahead of him.

Moore at 3? Would give it to Porter or an Furlong (if his form picks up).

Henderson was excellent last night, has done well in Europe and as far as the WC he was terrific against Scotland...but yes below par in the other games. I don't see Kleyn being ahead of him though, not in a million years.

I'd be very surprised if Henderson isn't starting against Scotland.

RugbyLover123

What’s people’s reasoning for starting Stander over Doris/Deegan? Granted they haven’t really been tested at top end European rugby, but they’ve both excelled anytime they’ve played. Potential to offer a hell of a lot more then Stander this 6 Nations too, who under Schmidt for the last year just trucked it up in tight traffic.

For me:

6. Ruddock
7. VDF
8. Doris

20. Deegan

Faugheen

Stander played well in games where there was variety in who was carrying, especially at the World Cup.

It’s no surprise that when another carrying option in the back row was on the field then Stander played well. Take Beirne vs Samoa, for example. Beirne took a lot of the load off CJ and CJ flourished as a result.

Other times he’s being given the ball and expected to create magic all the time, which just isn’t going to work. Conan wasn’t exactly lighting it up all the time either in similar circumstances.

I’ve been critical of Stander in the past but I think he still has a place in the back-row.

With a new head coach in place, if you’re playing well then you deserve a clean slate too. CJ has played well any time I have seen him and he was one of our better players at the World Cup.

The question is where. I think Ruddock’s form over the last two and a half years means he has to get a proper go at 6 with CJ at 8. I think Ruddock is a better player than Deegan and Doris at this time, so that’s where we should be looking at this campaign with the two 8s getting chances to stake their claim.

To be honest I don’t think much changes in the back row if you’re choosing between Ruddock/Stander at 6 or Stander/Doris/Deegan at 8. VDF is the best player on this island, so he should be playing every week.

Wegians89

Healy
Scannell
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Ruddock
Vdf
Doris/Deegan

Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Mccloskey
Ringrose
Larmour
Addison

Kelleher
Kilcoyne
Porter
Dillane
Jod
Murray (marmion if fit and any form)
Carbery
Henshaw (get him covering 15)

AbusesToilets

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

What’s people’s reasoning for starting Stander over Doris/Deegan? Granted they haven’t really been tested at top end European rugby, but they’ve both excelled anytime they’ve played. Potential to offer a hell of a lot more then Stander this 6 Nations too, who under Schmidt for the last year just trucked it up in tight traffic.

For me:

6. Ruddock
7. VDF
8. Doris

20. Deegan

Probably an insistence that there be a Munster player featured. There's no reason to not have an all Leinster backrow otherwise.

Interested Observer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Probably an insistence that there be a Munster player featured. There's no reason to not have an all Leinster backrow otherwise.

I think he is going to start, there's not much point in straying too far from reality.

There's a chance Deegan or Doris won't even make the 23 this coming weekend, I think they're ready for the step up but things like that go against them.

The Rape of Lucretia

Interested Observer wrote: »

I think he is going to start, there's not much point in straying too far from reality.

There's a chance Deegan or Doris won't even make the 23 this coming weekend, I think they're ready for the step up but things like that go against them.

Stander should start. At 6.

Dubinusa

I think in a couple of years, the back row will be completely flipped on it's head. Deegan, Doris and Boyle will most likely be in the mix as will Wycherly and Rea.
If Leavy comes back to his previous level... he's in the mix. Connors should be there also and theres6also Hodnett and J.O.S, if they get into matchday squads.
The correct balance is key! Our back row has looked disjointed and weak against top tier sides.

AbusesToilets

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stander should start. At 6.

Lets continued with the same failed efforts, surely they'll have better outcomes this time.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stander should start. At 6.

On this one Lucreter's - we are in agreement.

Former Former

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Lets continued with the same failed efforts, surely they'll have better outcomes this time.

Stander's previous stint at 6 was a roaring success, was it not?

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

Stander's previous stint at 6 was a roaring success, was it not?

I thought Stander at 6 and Conan at 8 really worked well.

Faugheen

Former Former wrote: »

Stander's previous stint at 6 was a roaring success, was it not?

Some of Standers best rugby for Ireland came when he was playing at six and Heaslip at 8 (with SOB at 7)

Likewise when Leavy played at 7, Stander looked excellent at 8.

Noticing the pattern? Give CJ another ball carrier in the back row (whether that’s Ruddock, Doris or Deegan or giving VDF some more responsibility) then he’ll flourish, because he literally isn’t doing all the carrying himself.

As things stand, if a back row of Stander, VDF and POM is lining up to take the ball off 9 we know where it’s going. If we can see it, the opposition can see it. Swap out the player you know isn’t going to touch the ball (or do much else) and replace him with one of the three mentioned and you’ve a different proposition.

There’s room for Stander in this team at 6 or 8, but he can’t take the ball up himself every single time. James Ryan too. It’s all very predictable.

AbusesToilets

Faugheen wrote: »

Some of Standers best rugby for Ireland came when he was playing at six and Heaslip at 8 (with SOB at 7)

Likewise when Leavy played at 7, Stander looked excellent at 8.

Noticing the pattern? Give CJ another ball carrier in the back row (whether that’s Ruddock, Doris or Deegan or giving VDF some more responsibility) then he’ll flourish, because he literally isn’t doing all the carrying himself.

As things stand, if a back row of Stander, VDF and POM is lining up to take the ball off 9 we know where it’s going. If we can see it, the opposition can see it. Swap out the player you know isn’t going to touch the ball (or do much else) and replace him with one of the three mentioned and you’ve a different proposition.

There’s room for Stander in this team at 6 or 8, but he can’t take the ball up himself every single time. James Ryan too. It’s all very predictable.

Posters acting like his carrying at 6 is somehow better than his carrying at 8. He does the same regardless, trundle into the nearest defender and fall down. He has no vision in attack, bar a desperate pop pass. He's absolutely bang average, and has been since he came in.

prawnsambo

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Posters acting like his carrying at 6 is somehow better than his carrying at 8. He does the same regardless, trundle into the nearest defender and fall down. He has no vision in attack, bar a desperate pop pass. He's absolutely bang average, and has been since he came in.

He always attracts at least two defenders to bring him down and a metre or two of gain line. It's not flashy, but a quick recycle from that carry will stress a defence. And he can do it all day long.

Interested Observer

The backrow looked better with Stander/Conan in is just another way of saying our backrow looked much better with POM not playing. Stander doesn't change his game between 6 and 8 imo.

mfceiling

Faugheen wrote: »

There’s room for Stander in this team at 6 or 8, but he can’t take the ball up himself every single time. James Ryan too. It’s all very predictable.

This. Harks back to the days of static ball to POC where was knocked down on or before the gain line and we went nowhere.
I think we've become a bit too predictable recently and this crack of a pop pass to a one up runner (normally static) isn't going to help our cause anytime soon.