Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

molloyjh

Clegg wrote: »

Applies to Murray too. The general consensus is that Cooney's excellent form should give him the starting berth. But there's too little analysis on Murray's poor form.

Cooneys excellent form should absolutely not get him the starting berth. It should get him in the door and make him the frontrunner. But there are so many other variables at play here. The step up. The style that Farrell wants to play. How the combinations gel. Where the leadership is going to come from. Cooney needs to prove in camp that he is the best fit for what Ireland need. What he does at Ulster isnt what gets him the 9 shirt, at least not all by itself. And that goes for every single position on the park.

yerrahbah

Clegg wrote: »

Applies to Murray too. The general consensus is that Cooney's excellent form should give him the starting berth. But there's too little analysis on Murray's poor form.

So we've Murray and POM that the media aren't allowed criticise.

Are there any players outside of Munster that this applies to?

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

Applies to Murray too. The general consensus is that Cooney's excellent form should give him the starting berth. But there's too little analysis on Murray's poor form.

Really?? That's really not my perception at all, tbh. I'd say every platform I read or podcast I listen to has mentioned his average-to-poor form at some stage over the last 12 months.

theVersatile

Clegg wrote: »

Applies to Murray too. The general consensus is that Cooney's excellent form should give him the starting berth. But there's too little analysis on Murray's poor form.

That's because Murrays "poor form" is a myth. He's not the best nine in the world anymore - but there's nothing about his recent performances which indicate he's playing particularly badly, just not to his highest level.

sydthebeat

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-conor-murray-ireland-six-nations-4513683-Feb2019/

https://extra.ie/2019/03/19/sport/soccernews/murray-and-sexton-age

https://extra.ie/2019/09/26/sport/rugby/conor-murray-form-critics

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/ireland-player-ratings-poor-form-of-star-pair-johnny-sexton-and-conor-murray-remains-a-concern-37848489.html

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/poor-form-of-murray-and-sexton-continues-to-be-a-worry-for-ireland/614253

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/conor-murray-ireland-analysis-194485

https://www.offtheball.com/rugby/quinlan-murray-ireland-starting-937716

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/matt-williams-an-open-letter-to-ross-byrne-and-conor-murray-1.4113609




plenty of media reporting of Murrays poor form......

Clegg

Fair enough. Didn't know there'd been articles written on Murray's poor form. So it's all the more frustrating that Thornley and Flannery have recently gone out of their way to advocate for him to start for Ireland.

Murray's off form but still a high quality 9. He's just not at the World Class level we associate him with.

Molloy is spot on, for all we know Murray or McGrath's more accurate box kicking will keep Cooney out of the 23, he won't be as destructive individually at test level so there are a myriad of factors which he has to contend with before he wears 9 green consistently.

As for criticism, I've seen heaps of criticism for POM and Murray and Earls too. Keith Wood was critical of the Ulster performance and specifically pointed to POM and Earls as not setting a standard. I agree with him, Murray isn't the player he was but he is still putting in a shift but Earls had no interest and

POM has turned into a passenger in teams that lack go forward. POM was so poor at the weekend that if I didn't know his match history I'd have refused to believe he was a core Irish international and potential captain. Not going to judge the guy or write him off based on one game, but it's worrying to see the level he is prepared to allow his standards to drop too.

All that aside Farrell is going to be ruthless with his selection and that will almost certainly mean that lads who appear to be the 'form' options will miss out. The Six Nations is treated as the absolute must win competition each calendar year and he will be under pressure from his first game in charge.

Doesn't matter either way, we're going to beat Scotland out of sight. Literally record breaking. Lads will be sending it like no ones business up in the stands.

aloooof

It's finally happened, Venjur couldn't hold back any longer and has finally commented on POM. What happens now?

salmocab

aloooof wrote: »

It's finally happened, Venjur couldn't hold back any longer and has finally commented on POM. What happens now?

We go through the looking glass

aloooof

aloooof wrote: »

It's finally happened, Venjur couldn't hold back any longer and has finally commented on POM. What happens now?

No I didn't. What are you talking about.

Dubinusa

The thing is... one game shouldn't be the standard! If Cooney starts and does'nt perform.. should he be dropped?
Murray has been awful for a run of a year. He's slow, his passing is average at best and he's nowhere near Cooney this last year.
POM offers very little also. Doesn't tackle much, doesn't make much carrying the ball and has not been the best 6 in Ireland for 2 odd years now.
Farrell would be nuts not to move on and freshen things up! Jones has in England and they have not looked back.
Cooney is playing at at level that's above everyone else!
Ruddock is also way above POM at 6. If Ireland are to improve, changes must be made! Style of play and personal. It would be crazy to watch Murray labor around the field and offer just box kicks! Similarly, POM starting anywhere would be ludicrous. Imagine POM getting the nod over VDF! The pundits are friends with these guys and obviously will defend them.
Repeating the same mistakes would be nuts.

Clegg

Van Graan says Carbery will be out for between 2 - 4 months. That leaves us with Sexton, Carty and Byrne as our frontline 10's. I think we're in dicey territory now considering Sexton's injury status and Carty's poor form before his rest. There's a lot of pressure for Byrne to hit the ground running. Presuming he starts the first 6N game, which he really should.

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

Van Graan says Carbery will be out for between 2 - 4 months. That leaves us with Sexton, Carty and Byrne as our frontline 10's. I think we're in dicey territory now considering Sexton's injury status and Carty's poor form before his rest. There's a lot of pressure for Byrne to hit the ground running. Presuming he starts the first 6N game, which he really should.

Burns was in the midway point as well. I'd say he'll be retained as part of the wider 6N squad at this point, particularly if Sexton isn't playing next weekend as there's always the chance he won't be back.

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

Van Graan says Carbery will be out for between 2 - 4 months. That leaves us with Sexton, Carty and Byrne as our frontline 10's. I think we're in dicey territory now considering Sexton's injury status and Carty's poor form before his rest. There's a lot of pressure for Byrne to hit the ground running. Presuming he starts the first 6N game, which he really should.

Burns is in contention as well, and could feature. He was named in the 45 man stocktake iirc.

kingofthekong

its a pity Frawley and h.Byrne are all at Leinster....they both look like they are the business

Clegg

aloooof wrote: »

Burns is in contention as well, and could feature. He was named in the 45 man stocktake iirc.

Like Squidgy said above, Burns will be there somewhere too, but he's never trained or played with the majority of this Ireland squad. Byrne and Carry are relatively inexperienced too, but they've had some exposure. I don't think Farrell would be keen on throwing a complete novice into the 23.

Or then again he may do it. New manager, new rules. It's not something Schmidt would've normally done anyway.

bilston

I think as Clegg suggests with it being a new management anything could happen. Obviously Farrell is closely connected to the previous regime so I suspect things won't change massively. But the approach of the backs may change a bit with Mike Catt now involved.

Bogwoppit

Had the good fortune to bump into BOD today waiting for a flight, he’s seriously tipping Billy Burns to be the breakout for the 6N.

Buer

I'm a big Burns fan. Because I called it about him joining Ulster first. Before anyone else.

But that's not the only reason I'm a big fan. Only part of it. He's a lovely passer of the ball and has developed the confidence to move his team around the pitch quickly and smoothly. He kicks well from hand in open play and has a nice variation on his kicks.

His problem is that he's not goal kicking at Ulster. If he is to play, it's likely Cooney needs to play too. If Cooney gets injured, you've a guy a who hasn't kicked a single goal this season having to step up in a test match. I don't see it happening.

And that's a shame. Because I backed him as someone that Irish rugby should sign. Before anyone else.

prawnsambo

Shut up Buer.

Bazzo

I'm pretty sure it was Buer's main opponent, Venjur, who called it anyway.

Bazzo

Bazzo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it was Buer's main opponent, Venjur, who called it anyway.

Buer wrote: »

I'm a big Burns fan. Because I called it about him joining Ulster first. Before anyone else.

And that's a shame. Because I backed him as someone that Irish rugby should sign. Before anyone else.

Seriously Buer.

irishbucsfan

It was me

ionadnapokot

The injuries at OH I think have given Farrell a justifiable chance to put his own stamp on the team.
With no Sexton - captaincy off the table (thankfully!)
With no Carbery - opportunity/excuse to to drop Murray, the provincial half back partner

With both out, Farrell can now legitimately go with Cooney and Byrne as the starting half backs.

But it would still be a big statement to Murray.

Dubinusa

It's a great opportunity if Sexton is out! With Carberry out someone will get a leg in the door.
Farrell would be blind to see the difference in quality between Murray and Cooney. All Murray's experience does not alter the fact that he's not very good atm. Why would anyone stick with him! We stuck with him last year and he delivered nothing.
We also stuck with an injured Henshaw, who rode to Japan and was awful. The days of depending on guys no matter what , must end.
I'd love to see Burns or Byrne get into the 23 for the 1st 2 games. I do think Burns will certainly play some role, and that is fresh meat into the pot. I don't think Carty can overtake these 2 over 3 matches, I may be wrong.
I think Marmion is going to miss out, unfortunately. This would have been an ideal time for him to grab the 9 shirt and make it his own.
I'm thinking 4 possible newly capped lads this tourney.
Burns, Doris and possibly Kelleher, if fit and perhaps Deegan.
The summer tour should bring 2 or 3 new caps. That is an ideal start for blooding lads in year 1.
A few lads who were previously picked but haven't featured lately are banging on the door! D.K and Moore. They will be capped this year also. I think we're going to see a healthy trend of newcomers and maybe the return of others. The fringe lads should be ecstatic! It should be a blank slate, hopefully. I do think Conway will lock down a wing position and I think Dillane is very much in the picture. TH is a 3 man tussle imo. Furlong, Porter and Moore! Hooker is up for grabs, Scannell, Herring the frontrunners and Kelleher if healthy. But, the blinkers must come off the coaching team. The idea that we can't compete without Sexton, Murray and POM are obsolete. We can and will compete. There's enough talent around to step in and do the job!

Buer

Bazzo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it was Buer's main opponent, Venjur, who called it anyway.

Which one is he again? Is that the lad with the John Hayes hair doll or the lad from Meath who pretends he's from Kildare but wishes he was English?

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Which one is he again? Is that the lad with the John Hayes hair doll or the lad from Meath who pretends he's from Kildare but wishes he was English?

I bet you're a massive Saoirse Ronan fan.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

I bet you're a massive Saoirse Ronan fan.

Her lack of an Academy Award is nothing short of a thundering disgrace.

yerrahbah

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-conor-murray-ireland-six-nations-4513683-Feb2019/

https://extra.ie/2019/03/19/sport/soccernews/murray-and-sexton-age

https://extra.ie/2019/09/26/sport/rugby/conor-murray-form-critics

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/ireland-player-ratings-poor-form-of-star-pair-johnny-sexton-and-conor-murray-remains-a-concern-37848489.html

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/poor-form-of-murray-and-sexton-continues-to-be-a-worry-for-ireland/614253

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/conor-murray-ireland-analysis-194485

https://www.offtheball.com/rugby/quinlan-murray-ireland-starting-937716

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/matt-williams-an-open-letter-to-ross-byrne-and-conor-murray-1.4113609




plenty of media reporting of Murrays poor form......

so these journalists either don't know the unwritten rule or know of it and have decided to ignore it

sydthebeat

yerrahbah wrote: »

so these journalists either don't know the unwritten rule or know of it and have decided to ignore it

if anyone actually believes there is some kind of "rule", written or otherwise, about players being exempt from criticism in the media then they are naive in the extreme.