Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

shootermacg

Faugheen wrote: »

A game from 2018 is the best you can do to discredit Ruddock?

Sorry I don't notice him a lot, so I just remember he was poor against Italy (a poor Italy at that), not poor exactly, just not great.

I also remember him at 7 not getting up off a scrum on BV during the Sarries game, leading to a try.

But I'm all for balance in the back row, if he's a good carrying option, then so be it, I do think we need a bit of ballast in the back row. But one thing Ireland have had over the years is a good break-down threat, he doesn't add to that.

In saying that I've given up hope that PoM will see some form again, and do not want him in a green shirt, so make of that what you like.

Personally I'd have CJ at 6, VdF at 7 and (insert Deegan / JoD or whoever at 8)

Dubinusa

Ruddock is and has been the best 6 in Ireland for quite some time! He's a beast, a leader and most importantly Carrie's the ball, very well! JOD doesn't have the same physical attributes. He is a good player, but using stats from the pro 14 is not really a good barometer, imo.
Ruddock doesn't play too many games in the pro 14! Against weaker opponents, Murphy has been called upon. I would assume, that powering up the back row is critical at this juncture. Besides, if you look at Englands back row it's balanced and powerful. Ours has been weak and dominated. JOD does not change our back row imo. Stander will not need to carry as much with Ruddock alongside him, which to me is beneficial.

Faugheen

shootermacg wrote: »

Sorry I don't notice him a lot, so I just remember he was poor against Italy (a poor Italy at that), not poor exactly, just not great.

I also remember him at 7 not getting up off a scrum on BV during the Sarries game, leading to a try.

But I'm all for balance in the back row, if he's a good carrying option, then so be it, I do think we need a bit of ballast in the back row. But one thing Ireland have had over the years is a good break-down threat, he doesn't add to that.

In saying that I've given up hope that PoM will see some form again, and do not want him in a green shirt, so make of that what you like.

Personally I'd have CJ at 6, VdF at 7 and (insert Deegan / JoD or whoever at 8)

Fair enough, your last post sounded flippant and sarcastic so apologies for my equally flippant response.

He’s a good carrying option which would take the pressure off CJ. He’s not the type that will always make rampaging runs but he’ll always find the small gaps to win the collisions and give you go forward ball even from a standing start - which is what the back-row has been lacking.

In defence, he’s a dominant tackler who’ll knock players back, which is beneficial to other players who do have that ground ability such as CJ, Henderson, Porter, VDF etc.

There are many options in the back-row. I just think CJ has to stay in the team and Ruddock has been the best 6 for a couple of years and deserves his go.

Clegg

I hope the injuries to Addsion to Moore aren't serious. I think Larmour is the best 15 in the country right now, but Addison is in great form himself and is the perfect replacement for anywhere across the back 3. Moore has really worked hard on his fitness and is surely pushing Porter for the 18 jersey.

Faugheen

Green is his colour

Clegg

Dave Kearney is genuinely the in form winger in Ireland right now. Stockdale has a spot nailed down but Earls's position is in doubt imo. Not playing well at all.

And CJ needs a few huge games now. Deegan and Doris are shooting the lights out. Need to see more variation from CJ to show that he can keep up.

Dubinusa

I would not discount Conway! Hes6been fantastic for some time now!

sydthebeat

Dubinusa wrote: »

I would not discount Conway! Hes6been fantastic for some time now!

When is the last time he's scored? Genuine question as I can't recall

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

When is the last time he's scored? Genuine question as I can't recall

Answered.

Two seconds ago

PhlegmyMoses

Would like to get some young wingers blooded over the next while across the provinces. Barring Stockdale, the guys we are all calling for to be in the squad are getting up there for wide player standards.

thebaz

Leinster (my team) go marching on , but still cant enjoy watching rugby after another WC failure, this happened in 2011 and 2015 , took a year to recover !

Clegg

So where are we now after this weekends fixtures? Deegan has done so much for his test chances imo whereas the likes of PoM and Stander didn't defend their positions well at all. I think Chris Farrell had a bit of a shocker in defence today too. Henderson wasn't too hot yesterday either. He's a fierce athlete but takes things too static and doesn't use his bulk to his advantage. He's in my team for the first test, but only because he's a more physical player than Toner. For set piece work To we is ahead. As amazing as it sounds there's genuinely nothing between Dave Kearney and Conway. They're both on great form.

Healy
Herring? (No real standout)
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Ruddock
VDF
Deegan
Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Kearney or Conway
Larmour

troyzer

Clegg wrote: »

So where are we now after this weekends fixtures? Deegan has done so much for his test chances imo whereas the likes of PoM and Stander didn't defend their positions well at all. I think Chris Farrell had a bit of a shocker in defence today too. Henderson wasn't too hot yesterday either. He's a fierce athlete but takes things too static and doesn't use his bulk to his advantage. As amazing as it sounds there's genuinely nothing between Dave Kearney and Conway. They're both on great form.

Healy
Herring? (No real standout)
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Ruddock
VDF
Deegan
Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Kearney or Conway
Larmour.

I can't argue with this team. And it has no Munster players.

Even if you put Conway in there, he's still a product of the Leinster setup.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

So where are we now after this weekends fixtures? Deegan has done so much for his test chances imo whereas the likes of PoM and Stander didn't defend their positions well at all. I think Chris Farrell had a bit of a shocker in defence today too. Henderson wasn't too hot yesterday either. He's a fierce athlete but takes things too static and doesn't use his bulk to his advantage. He's in my team for the first test, but only because he's a more physical player than Toner. For set piece work To we is ahead. As amazing as it sounds there's genuinely nothing between Dave Kearney and Conway. They're both on great form.

Healy
Herring? (No real standout)
Furlong
Henderson
Ryan
Ruddock
VDF
Deegan
Cooney
Sexton
Stockdale
Henshaw
Ringrose
Kearney or Conway
Larmour

Kelleher has two weeks to prove fitness but based on early season form goes straight in at 2 for me.

Stander in at 6 and Deegan or Doris at 8.

Rest as is.

Clegg

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kelleher has two weeks to prove fitness but based on early season form goes straight in at 2 for me.

Stander in at 6 and Deegan or Doris at 8.

Rest as is.

I think Kelleher's missed too much rugby recently to.go straight into the starting side. But he was by far and away the best performer when he was fit. Maybe a bench spot if he can throw a good performance.jn before the start of the 6 Nations.

I'd actually forgotten about McCloskey in my selection. I'd have him in front of Henshaw at the moment.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

I think Kelleher's missed too much rugby recently to.go straight into the starting side. But he was by far and away the best performer when he was fit. Maybe a bench spot if he can throw a good performance.jn before the start of the 6 Nations.

I'd actually forgotten about McCloskey in my selection. I'd have him in front of Henshaw at the moment.

I think Kelleher has shown enough to be given the nod if fit. He's already an impressively complete player, I think if he is given the green jersey he'll make himself an automatic pick by the end of the tournament.

I'd agree about McCloskey for games where we want to go out and run at teams. Against France and England I'd go for Henshaw as he's the better defender.

And many would good for Aki over both.

Brewster

Herring has been prone to an odd overthrow at times. He is very good technically, brilliant around the pitch both in attack and defence. It will be an interesting call, certainly one of the hardest positions to call. Wouldn’t rule out Scannell either.

Clegg

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think Kelleher has shown enough to be given the nod if fit. He's already an impressively complete player, I think if he is given the green jersey he'll make himself an automatic pick by the end of the tournament.

I'd agree about McCloskey for games where we want to go out and run at teams. Against France and England I'd go for Henshaw as he's the better defender.

And many would good for Aki over both.

I agree entirely on Kelleher. He's well on his way to being a test mainstay. This is his first full season as a pro and he has taken to Pro 14 and Champions Cup intensity effortlessly. Just think it's asking a.lot to throw him straight into the side after injury.

I'm hoping we see a more varied attacking plan this coming tournament. Watching Leinster this season you can see Ringrose taking on more responsibility with how the attack is structured. So much goes through him now. It's clear he's been given playmaking responsibility. His distribution has gotten much better. But also the attack has been shaped to get the most out of him too. Little gaps manipulated in the opposition defence for him to step through. He seen on fire ever since the World Cup.

sydthebeat

Seriously hard to make a call for any of the munster lads right now.

Killer at 17.

I think stander could be best utilised at 6, but hard to argue he's doing anything any more impressively than ruddock over the last 6 months.

Earls has been on a serious slide since last July, and time waits for no man.

Murray, well the problems are well documented, but I actually though he was crisper today than he'd been in a while, though he needs better play making options either side of him.

POM shouldn't be within an asses roar of a green jersey to be honest, his ability to influence a game beyond one or two lines out disruptions has gone.

Now in not going to put all this down upon the players, I honestly believe they have the ability to come good again, but this doesn't show in a red jersey as the quality of squad just isn't there currently to match the top European teams. There's obviously a problem with their attack coaching as they have the second worst try scoring stat in the HC on 8 tries (only montpellier is worse with 7, and the next worst is on 10). If not for an intercept today they would have only scored off the tee.
Their lack of appearance in the top try scorers in the Pro14 is another worrying sign. Matthewson and botha are their top try scorers, coming in an embarrassingly joint 37th in the list.
The lack of a consistent 10 hasn't helped, letting Alby go hasn't helped. The back row balance is all off, and stander is flogging himself to death for particularly no return.

I'd say they can't wait for Ireland training camps to resume so they can be in a more positive atmosphere. Though of course we don't know how farrell is going to set the team up, surely form will be a significant influencer in selection.

bilston

15 Larmour
14 D.Kearney
13 Ringrose
12 Henshaw
11 Stockdale
10 Sexton
9 Cooney
1 Healy
2 Cronin
3 Furlong
4 Henderson
5 Ryan
6 Ruddock (c)
7 Van Der Flier
8 Deegan

16 Herring
17 Kilcoyne
18 Porter
19 Toner
20 Stander
21 Murray
22 Byrne
23 Addison

That's my 23, as it stands.

I can see Murray starting at 9. Cooney didn't have the best of games yesterday and I think Earls have every chance of getting the nod on the wing. Conway is right in the mix as well.

I'd give Ruddock the captaincy for the 6Ns, ultimately I think Ryan will be captain, but another year without that particular burden may not be the worst thing for him.

sydthebeat

Hard to argue with that, other than kelliher being a bolter.

bilston

Thinking about it I might give Conway the nod on the wing, just because he has earned a start over a longer period of time than Kearney.

I suppose training will be very important for the Munster lads. The Leinster players all look great at the moment, but it helps playing in a very strong side. Training will be more of a leveller.

The Rape of Lucretia

You have it there I'd say, apart from Conway on the bench I think rather than Addison.



What might give more an indication of the future will be what Andy might mix up for the Italy game. Maybe give Murray a run to see if he is getting back to the level. Addison to start if he has some decent game time between here and there. Maybe even McCloskey, though hardly both. Kelleher might just be a few months too soon.

The Rape of Lucretia

All which prompts : is Rob done and dusted in green barring injuries ?

Dog Botherer

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

All which prompts : is Rob done and dusted in green barring injuries ?

He’s still probably third in the depth chart after Larmour and Addison right? Maybe Conway? Judging by today Haley still has plenty to work on, and the TOH ship sailed a long time ago.

So considering Addison is injured yet again, seems likely Kearney would at least be included in the wider squad for the 6 Nations. Would expect Conway to bench ahead of him though.

Rigor Mortis

15 Larmour
14 Conway
13 Ringrose
12 Henshaw
11 Stockdale
10 Sexton
9 Cooney
1 Healy
2 Cronin
3 Porter
4 Henderson
5 Ryan
6 Ruddock (c)
7 Van Der Flier
8 Doris

16 Kelleher
17 Kilcoyne
18 Furlong
19 Toner
20 Stander
21 Murray
22 Byrne
23 Addison

Mr Tickle

Since you all asked:

15 Larmour
14 Conway
13 Ringrose
12 Henshaw
11 Stockdale
10 Carty/Byrne (Not worth rushing Sexton back for Scotland)
9 Cooney
1 Healy
2 Scannell
3 Furlong
4 Henderson
5 Dillane/Thornbury (Depending on Ryan's fitness)
6 Ruddock (c)
7 Van Der Flier
8 Deegan

16 Kelleher
17 Kilcoyne
18 Porter
19 Dillan/Thornbury
20 Stander
21 Murray
22 Byrne/Carty
23 Addison

kingofthekong

Clegg wrote: »

I think Kelleher's missed too much rugby recently to.go straight into the starting side. But he was by far and away the best performer when he was fit. Maybe a bench spot if he can throw a good performance.jn before the start of the 6 Nations.

I'd actually forgotten about McCloskey in my selection. I'd have him in front of Henshaw at the moment.

Mcloskey butchering overlaps and sitter tries like he did against Clermont will really factor against him if he want to shift Bundee or Henshaw,

Mcloskeys been great at everything else but those things really cost you at the highest level

Utah_Saint

kingofthekong wrote: »

Mcloskey butchering overlaps and sitter tries like he did against Clermont will really factor against him if he want to shift Bundee or Henshaw,

Mcloskeys been great at everything else but those things really cost you at the highest level

Its disappointing if it comes down to his form in the last game. He's been the best Irish 12 in the Pro14 for past 2 seasons.

I can't rem if he did miss an overlap but I know Stockdale def did...he missed a 2 on 1.

kingofthekong

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Its disappointing if it comes down to his form in the last game. He's been the best Irish 12 in the Pro14 for past 2 seasons.

I can't rem if he did miss an overlap but I know Stockdale def did...he missed a 2 on 1.

Bundee and Henshaw have both proved they can live with the very best at international level.....to repolace either of those you got to be on fire and butchering a walk in try like that is criminal and will definitley go against him in selection for the six nations.