Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Former Former

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Droll. Still, you've bounced back nicely from your (now deleted) meltdown. Good to see. I was genuinely worried for you.

Awww you're sweet. Thinking of you too hun MWAH

Paul Smeenus

I am just a great guy. No argument there.

AbusesToilets

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

On a more serious note, the fact that Dave, Cooney, and Rudds are in the mix as potential starters for Ireland should be ringing the alarms bells all round. Not that they arent deserving of being in the conversation, or even all being the right choice. Its that they correcly are, is the really worrying bit.

That three 30-ish, decent indeed club players, but really only some-caps-but-never-really-made-its on the international scene, being our best options, is a strong indication that our generally esteemed pipeline (all kneel for the Jesuits and Spiritans) isnt quite as rich as we might like to think.

The lacuna seems to be on the Munster front, bringing little, or quite likely nothing (a Leinster refugee being their most likely canidate to be involved) to the party.

You need new material

awec

Paul Smeenus and Former Former drop it please, enough of the digs toward one another.

Or get a room.

Either one, I don't mind.

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

Paul Smeenus and Former Former drop it please, enough of the digs toward one another.

Or get a room.

Either one, I don't mind.

Room 502, Ramada Inn, Belfast.
Champagne on ice.
Rose petals on the bed.

Like Baloucoune, Former Former will have no defence.

Paul Smeenus

For clarification - that's me dropping it in a jokey way.

ionadnapokot

MK suggesting that Sexton is going to be named as the Captain tomorrow.
https://www.the42.ie/addison-ulster-ireland-six-nations-4965720-Jan2020/

I’ll get it off my chest now! I’ll be really pissed off if he’s the captain.

First of all I don’t think he’s a good captain, but also because he’s injured again and won’t have played in nearly 8 weeks.
We saw how off the pace he was v England last year. He’s nearly 35 and well past his best. He’s not going to be getting any more durable either!

I appreciate that there aren’t allot of candidates for captain but I would think POM, CJ and James Ryan should all be considered before Sexton.

ClanofLams

Don’t think he’s suggesting it really, article just says Sexton is favourite. Mentions James Ryan as being a contender. It’s a tough spot for Farrell because there aren’t a whole lot of contenders. I think POM is likely to lose his spot for the Scotland game anyway and I’m not convinced Stander is nailed on but would think he will start. Captain needs to be 100% nailed on to start so it’s prob Sexton v Ryan.

Given sextons age and injury record, I would be inclined to go with Ryan but I suppose Sexton captain and Ryan vice for a year wouldn’t be a bad idea. Would allow Ryan to grow into role without pressure of full time. Then next January change could be made.

stephen_n

ionadnapokot wrote: »

MK suggesting that Sexton is going to be named as the Captain tomorrow.
https://www.the42.ie/addison-ulster-ireland-six-nations-4965720-Jan2020/

I’ll get it off my chest now! I’ll be really pissed off if he’s the captain.

First of all I don’t think he’s a good captain, but also because he’s injured again and won’t have played in nearly 8 weeks.
We saw how off the pace he was v England last year. He’s nearly 35 and well past his best. He’s not going to be getting any more durable either!

I appreciate that there aren’t allot of candidates for captain but I would think POM, CJ and James Ryan should all be considered before Sexton.

Well past his world player of the year best just over a year ago?

ionadnapokot

Aye!
Actually I would also think Henderson is a better candidate

Dog Botherer

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Aye!
Actually I would also think Henderson is a better candidate

Henderson isn’t guaranteed to start, if Farrell picks on form.

ionadnapokot

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Henderson isn’t guaranteed to start, if Farrell picks on form.

Same for Sexton!

The Rape of Lucretia

The only truly known certain starter v Scotland at the moment are Church, Furlong, VanderFlier, and Ringrose.
Johnny would be a disaster. He just hasnt the coolness for it and is his own worst enemy. Worst choice Farrell could make.
Wouldnt attach too much importance to it anyway. As long as its not Sexton.

Paul Smeenus

I think all Best's talk of how they tried to navigate between time led by the coaches and time led by the players themselves gave an indication of the work a captain does behind the scenes - trying to gauge and maximise or improve the attitude, emotions and preparation across a squad in the run up to games. I have literally no idea who could take that up - I wouldn't have faith in Hendo or Sexton to manage it especially well. POM doesn't really deserve to be starting, and CJ's made some bad calls himself as captain. Think it's a bit early for Ryan... Good luck with that, Andy.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I think all Best's talk of how they tried to navigate between time led by the coaches and time led by the players themselves gave an indication of the work a captain does behind the scenes - trying to gauge and maximise or improve the attitude, emotions and preparation across a squad in the run up to games. I have literally no idea who could take that up - I wouldn't have faith in Hendo or Sexton to manage it especially well. POM doesn't really deserve to be starting, and CJ's made some bad calls himself as captain. Think it's a bit early for Ryan... Good luck with that, Andy.

I agree, I reckon Ryan will almost certainly be skipper by the time the WC comes round, but I'd be more inclined to go with a stopgap for now. Could be Sexton. Personally I never like 10s captaining as they have enough to worry about. Ruddock is my choice as I think he has earned the 6 jersey. But that's probably a long shot.

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

Ruddock is my choice as I think he has earned the 6 jersey. But that's probably a long shot.

100% agreed.
He'd be my choice at this moment too

Dog Botherer

Third for Ruddock. If he starts, he should be captain.

ionadnapokot

GT in the IrishT also saying Sexton is likely to.be named captain.
Bloody hell. Pissed off with Farrell already!

Squad announcement at 4pm today. Not 2!

Kelleher not going to be back for Benetton at wkend. But should be ready for week long training camp in Portugal from next Wednesday.

One Kearney out and another one in.

I thought the latest injury to Sexton gave Farrell an “opportunity” to make change and put his stamp on things.
Even if it’s only for a year until Ryan takes over I still think it’s a bad appointment.

salmocab

I have no strong opinion on Sexton as captain but people here regularly say we don’t know what goes on in training when talking about selection, the captaincy and leadership I would imagine is even more about stuff we don’t see.

ionadnapokot

I think we all know Sexton was and is the leader in the group.
But you still don’t need to make him captain!

molloyjh

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I think we all know Sexton was and is the leader in the group.
But you still don’t need to make him captain!

So wait, hes the best 10 in the country, one of the few leadership contenders to be guaranteed his place, is already a leader in the group, is captain of his provinces and has shown that the captaincy actually suits him and you dont think he should be captain? Instead the captain should be any number of guys who aren't guaranteed their place?

I'm sorry, but Sexton is the best 10 in the country when all are fit. Hes better on 1 leg than the current available options. He also comes back up to speed quickly. The England game last year proves the sum total of nothing when 1-9 were performing so poorly on the day. He has a far better record of hitting the ground running.

At Leinster we've already seen how the captaincy has led to him being a far more measured individual on the pitch as well. And as you said hes the big leader in the group anyway. Of course hes going to be a front runner for the position.

ionadnapokot

Yes. See Best v Sexton. BOD v Wood.
Firstly I reject your assertion that he has shown himself to be a good captain.
Secondly he’s not fit and isn’t or shouldn’t be a guaranteed starter v Scotland.

And lastly we have a world class guaranteed starter in second row. And if it’s too early for Ryan there are alternative options in POM, CJ, Henderson or even Ruddock.

Edit: & I don’t think 10s even should be captains. They should be organising rather than annoying referees.

Podge_irl

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Yes. See Best v Sexton. BOD v Wood.
Firstly I reject your assertion that he has shown himself to be a good captain.
Secondly he’s not fit and isn’t or shouldn’t be a guaranteed starter v Scotland.

And lastly we have a world class guaranteed starter in second row. And if it’s too early for Ryan there are alternative options in POM, CJ, Henderson or even Ruddock.

If he is fit he absolutely is a guaranteed starter against Scotland because the alternatives are Ross Byrne or Billy Burns.

yerrahbah

Does it really matter who is captain?

Apart from getting in the refs ear and possibly influencing one or two decisions?

I'd be more concerned about who starts

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Yes. See Best v Sexton. BOD v Wood.
Firstly I reject your assertion that he has shown himself to be a good captain.
Secondly he’s not fit and isn’t or shouldn’t be a guaranteed starter v Scotland.

And lastly we have a world class guaranteed starter in second row. And if it’s too early for Ryan there are alternative options in POM, CJ, Henderson or even Ruddock.

Edit: & I don’t think 10s even should be captains. They should be organising rather than annoying referees.

I think you're drifting into fiction here a bit.

Could you point to specific fixtures where you feel Sexton's captaincy was a failure because I'm coming up blank?

And to suggest that he isn't or shouldn't be guaranteed started is bewildering. Who at 10 has outperformed him this season? Who would you be starting instead of him and why?

As for the other options you mentioned they would all on the face of it be fine choices for the captaincy but there are a couple of issues. POM and Stander are the core of the leadership group at Munster who look a bit rudderless at the moment. I'm not sure right now is ideal for either to step into the captaincy albeit I'm open to the idea that it might help one or either get back on the front foot.

Henderson would be a good shout but he's never quite been a nailed on starter for Ireland so I'd probably want an idea of what Farrell is thinking re selection before he's given the armband.

As for Ryan he would have been my pick, but he may not be there yet. He's two seasons into his international career and may want to continue to focus on his game.

There are other options aside from the above - but Sexton ticks the boxes for me as much or more so than anyone else. He's extremely competitive, rarely has bad days, is a known leader for province and country and he is quite good with the media. He's likely to hold onto the Captaincy for one, maybe two seasons and then he'll most likely be stepping back as we make a run for RWC 2023.

Ultimately it's my experience that Captain's pick themselves. Whoever Farrell announces will have gotten the nod for good reason, some of which we'll be privy to, many of which we will not.

ionadnapokot

Venjur! Seriously?

How many times has Sexton even been captain in his 250 odd appearances?

And this season he’s played in 3 matches for what 100-120mins?

Ross Byrne.

Mr Tickle

There's a good case to be made for using a kind of "Leadership group" for the first year under Farrell. The only thing that's clear for the time being is that it isn't clear who should be captain.
Ryan's a bit young, Sexton's injured at the moment and won't be around for too many more years.
POM's not guaranteed a spot and won't make the next WC. Ditto for Ruddock, though he probably deserves a start at the moment based on form. I just don;t think he should be nailed on the way a captain is.

Any one of these guys could captain Ireland well for a given match but none really stand out as the winner. Let them share it for a year based on the team picked on a given week. It gives Ryan more time to get used to the idea and gives Farrrell more time to assess his options.

Edit: Henderson, Murray(if he plays his way back in) and CJ could also do a job for a given game.

Utah_Saint

Sexton probably is the best available option we have. It's unfortunate we've landed in this position having to pick someone not fully fit and who hasn't really performed for ire in the last year...but thats legacy of the last coaching ticket. That and the fact that Carberry has a fitness record of an 80 year old woman with brittle bone disease.

sydthebeat

The team captain and the match day captain do not have to be the same person.

The team captain generally drives standards at training, is the liaison with the coaching group on behalf of players etc.

So Sexton being named team captain, even if risk of not being fit, isn't an either / or situation.

Squidgy Black

Andy Farrell's been in the camp for what, 3 years now? Pretty sure he's been able to get a feel for who should be team captain by now.

A lot of hot air being blown around for nothing to be honest.