Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Trevorclever

AbusesToilets wrote: »

We're going to ignore his awful injury timing then? Your points are bad and you should feel badly.

Has he been injured for a decade?

phily2002

awec wrote: »

Not sure Darren Cave would have the fitness levels to play test rugby at this stage...

Ha brain fart, meant Marshall! Bed time for me lol

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

Rhys absolutely is one of our best players. And McCloskey was taken off because he played badly in that game. Which was 1 of 3 caps.

The other two being against Fiji and the USA, playing with the B team. He's had 1 real chance, and he didn't play that badly.

Look, McCloskey is not the perfect player, there are issues there, but nobody can argue that he hasn't done enough to earn a chance. He has shown more form in recent times than the incumbents, but I guess people have written him off based on some preconceived notions from a game 4 years ago.

prawnsambo

Henshaw has been playing very well since he came back from injury. Three clean breaks against Lyon, 54 metres from 8 carries. Always difficult to stop when he makes a break. Not sure why he's being singled out.

AbusesToilets

Trevorclever wrote: »

Has he been injured for a decade?

He's picked up significant injuries on multiple, right before the major tournaments. He's also played POM and Stander off the park multiple times for Leinster.

POM is playing like a drain, and has been for over a year. Stander isn't much better. This squad doesn't reflect a form selection, and it's a ****ing joke that players have been so poor, at the heart of some the worst Irish performances in history, continue to be picked.

Trevorclever

AbusesToilets wrote: »

He's picked up significant injuries on multiple, right before the major tournaments. He's also played POM and Stander off the park multiple times for Leinster.

POM is playing like a drain, and has been for over a year. Stander isn't much better. This squad doesn't reflect a form selection, and it's a ****ing joke that players have been so poor, at the heart of some the worst Irish performances in history, continue to be picked.

He's been injured for every 6 nations and world cup for a decade? O'Mahony isn't on great form but has far more ability to Ruddock. I think Beirne at 6 when he's fit could be the way forward.

awec

POM is a bit of an untouchable at the moment. He's the talisman selection from Munster.

Even our softly-softly no-hard-questions journos would have a few things to say if he was dropped out of the squad entirely straight out the gate by a new coach.

I thought he got a bit much criticism at the world cup, but yea, he hasn't been good. "Form" is certainly pushing it a bit.

prawnsambo

awec wrote: »

POM is a bit of an untouchable at the moment. He's the talisman selection from Munster.

Even our softly-softly no-hard-questions journos would have a few things to say if he was dropped out of the squad entirely straight out the gate by a new coach.

Where would we get the pashun from?



I'm told that POM is busy imparting the pashun on JOD and just needs a few more weeks to work it in so he can step down gracefully.

Clegg

Beirne isn't good enough either. Think we should really consider looking at Stander to blindside. We've three 8's in the squad right now.

Trevorclever

Clegg wrote: »

Beirne isn't good enough either. Think we should really consider looking at Stander to blindside. We've three 8's in the squad right now.

The importance of a player who can steal ball or slow it down on the ground is being underestimated here. Van Der Flier is great at what he does but he's not a going to give us that. Clearly it's why O'Mahony has been picked.

mickdoocey

lets see how the 6 nations goes before being too hard on Farrell
We have to be fair
I think some key irish players are in their twilight and a third place finish would be a good result, fourth average and fifth a poor showing but not the end of the world if enough youth get outings.
for me its going to be a tough 6 nations and injuries to anyone like sexton, furlong and james ryan will make it tough going.
I am going to say Ireland finish fourth/fifth overall this year but the young bucks to learn from it and 2021 to see a grand slam .

awec

POM is not very good at stealing ball.

AbusesToilets

Trevorclever wrote: »

He's been injured for every 6 nations and world cup for a decade? O'Mahony isn't on great form but has far more ability to Ruddock. I think Beirne at 6 when he's fit could be the way forward.

Jesus wept, Beirne is even worse. Absolute waste of space in Japan. What specific abilities would POM have that are far better than Ruddock? Presumably not tackling, carrying or scrummaging ...

The Rape of Lucretia

Trevorclever wrote: »

The importance of a player who can steal ball or slow it down on the ground is being underestimated here. Van Der Flier is great at what he does but he's not a going to give us that. Clearly it's why O'Mahony has been picked.

If a player does a lot of unseen work and no one is around to see it, does it have any effect a match ?

The Rape of Lucretia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Jesus wept, Beirne is even worse. Absolute waste of space in Japan. What specific abilities would POM have that are far better than Ruddock? Presumably not tackling, carrying or scrummaging ...

Staring determinedly. He is beyond question our best at it.

Trevorclever

awec wrote: »

POM is not very good at stealing ball.

It doesn't happen that often at test level anyway but he slows ball down. I think his stats stack up nicely in comparison to other teams.

Trevorclever

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Jesus wept, Beirne is even worse. Absolute waste of space in Japan. What specific abilities would POM have that are far better than Ruddock? Presumably not tackling, carrying or scrummaging ...

Lineout and his ground work along with his leadership. A Ruddock type player are ten a penny, you need more at international level.

AbusesToilets

Trevorclever wrote: »

Lineout and his ground work along with his leadership. A Ruddock type player are ten a penny, you need more at international level.

POM is certainly exceptional. I don't know that I've heard of any player, let alone a forward who managed to go an entire international match without making a tackle. Must have been really busy, slowing ball, or such.

ClanofLams

mickdoocey wrote: »

lets see how the 6 nations goes before being too hard on Farrell
We have to be fair
I think some key irish players are in their twilight and a third place finish would be a good result, fourth average and fifth a poor showing but not the end of the world if enough youth get outings.
for me its going to be a tough 6 nations and injuries to anyone like sexton, furlong and james ryan will make it tough going.
I am going to say Ireland finish fourth/fifth overall this year but the young bucks to learn from it and 2021 to see a grand slam .

Anything below third would be very poor.

Dubinusa

It's an interesting selection. I think we're going to get the same back row. This is probably going to be ok against the Scots, but the Welch will destroy them. If Farrell has any hope of becoming the rwc, I think he should throw caution to the wind and use the 1st match to mix things up. POM is the only player that I can think off that can play every minute of each match and not make a tackle! It's absolutely absurd to talk about unseen work? He's been puke for over a year. It's mindboggling.
I do hope that sense prevails and Cooney gets the start. It's time for others to get a run.
I think JGP will get his chance this summer. Blade maybe and Marmion may be good to go. Right now there's a great logjam at 9! Each lad has different strengths, so depending on the gameplan there may be changes made at 9.
An uptempo gameplan would be curtains for Murray. It should be interesting.

stephen_n

Trevorclever wrote: »

That's not the reason he's been dumped, it's because he's not good enough. I'm using the point that he hasn't been selected to show that the coaches agree. He's been on squads for over a decade!
McCloskey hasn't been given the same opportunities and is younger.

So the guy with 24 caps isn’t good enough but the guy who is two years younger and only has 3 caps, is. Very sound logic there.

stephen_n

Trevorclever wrote: »

It doesn't happen that often at test level anyway but he slows ball down. I think his stats stack up nicely in comparison to other teams.

He certainly wasn’t slowing the ball down against England or Wales last year in the 6 nations. Or against NZ in the World Cup. He may be able to slow ball against weaker teams but he’s not doing it against top class opposition. So in that Wales game he made zero tackles and failed to slow the ball down. Don’t remember much leadership on the pitch that day either if I’m honest. POM has been on a steady decline since the Lions tour, with a few notable performances since then like NZ in 2018. At his peak he was the best 6 in the country but he is well past his peak now.

twinytwo

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's an interesting selection. I think we're going to get the same back row. This is probably going to be ok against the Scots, but the Welch will destroy them. If Farrell has any hope of becoming the rwc, I think he should throw caution to the wind and use the 1st match to mix things up. POM is the only player that I can think off that can play every minute of each match and not make a tackle! It's absolutely absurd to talk about unseen work? He's been puke for over a year. It's mindboggling.
I do hope that sense prevails and Cooney gets the start. It's time for others to get a run.
I think JGP will get his chance this summer. Blade maybe and Marmion may be good to go. Right now there's a great logjam at 9! Each lad has different strengths, so depending on the gameplan there may be changes made at 9.
An uptempo gameplan would be curtains for Murray. It should be interesting.

The problem is and always has been the central contracts.. once you are on one there is no incentive... if anyone thinks Murray will be dropped given the amount of money he is on? Heaslip milked it for the best part of a decade.

molloyjh

twinytwo wrote: »

The problem is and always has been the central contracts.. once you are on one there is no incentive... if anyone thinks Murray will be dropped given the amount of money he is on? Heaslip milked it for the best part of a decade.

Heaslip was the best 8 in the country up until his injury. I still do not understand the Heaslip-hate. The guy was a superb player and ultra-durable over his career. Central contracts didnt get him on the Lions for example. It's such a BS take on things.

prawnsambo

molloyjh wrote: »

Heaslip was the best 8 in the country up until his injury. I still do not understand the Heaslip-hate. The guy was a superb player and ultra-durable over his career. Central contracts didnt get him on the Lions for example. It's such a BS take on things.

Never mind the fact that he was nominated for world player of the year a year before his last game for Ireland. Hilarious bitterness on display there.

irishbucsfan

stephen_n wrote: »

He certainly wasn’t slowing the ball down against England or Wales last year in the 6 nations. Or against NZ in the World Cup. He may be able to slow ball against weaker teams but he’s not doing it against top class opposition. So in that Wales game he made zero tackles and failed to slow the ball down. Don’t remember much leadership on the pitch that day either if I’m honest. POM has been on a steady decline since the Lions tour, with a few notable performances since then like NZ in 2018. At his peak he was the best 6 in the country but he is well past his peak now.

Is it not far, far more likely that the guy who was man of the match in one of the biggest wins in the history of Irish rugby suffered a loss of form due to the same reasons that affected almost everyone else in the entire squad?

Seems infinitely more likely to me, he’s not that old. I wouldn’t put a return to form past him at all.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Is it not far, far more likely that the guy who was man of the match in one of the biggest wins in the history of Irish rugby suffered a loss of form due to the same reasons that affected almost everyone else in the entire squad?

Seems infinitely more likely to me, he’s not that old. I wouldn’t put a return to form past him at all.

Unlike other players who have suffered a similar loss in form he hasn't exactly been pulling up trees for his province though.

I don't disagree with the general premise - declaring him "past it" is ridiculously over the top but whatever is affecting him is more than the Irish squad malaise.

yerrahbah

Perhaps POM is in the squad for his line out ability.

We have three fairly green hookers and the inclusion of POM and Toner might make life easier for them.

also POM won Man of the match in two 6 nations games last year

One of which was awarded by Jamie Heaslip, who may know a thing or two about backrow play

mogwai81

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Balacoune won't be a part of match day squads, the development players are generally just there to be in the training camps. England do it quite regularly and call them "apprentices".

I understand the role of the „development players“. I was saying that I would start Baloucoune ahead of Earls at the moment.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

Unlike other players who have suffered a similar loss in form he hasn't exactly been pulling up trees for his province though.

I don't disagree with the general premise - declaring him "past it" is ridiculously over the top but whatever is affecting him is more than the Irish squad malaise.

This. His form has been generally poor for Ireland and Munster for over a year. That doesn't means he cant find good form again. Hes going to have a harder time than someone like Sexton, because Sexton came back into a winning team and was playing on the front foot as soon as he got back. POM doesnt have that luxury right now at Munster.

I'm a little put out on Ruddocks behalf because he has worked his socks off all season. But as I said previously, you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater either. I'm reasonably okay with POM getting a chance to make a case for himself. If he's still playing poorly and still getting selected at the end of the 6Ns I might have a different opinion then, but let's wait and see for now. I've a sneaking suspicion he might end up on the bench. Toner and Ryan to start with CJ at 6. Henderson and POM to come off the bench.