Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Clegg

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1219965499603345408?s=19

Suggests Kelleher may come off the bench against the Scots. Larmour sounds a little less optimistic for the opening game however.

Dubinusa

Looking at all the squads, it's noticeable how young the squad are! France have a very young squad. Lots of turnover this year. I believe we have have a good mix of old and new.
France have really flipped it on its head, not much experience there.

Clegg

Is there a case to be made for Addison and Larmour both starting? They're the in form back three players in Ireland right now. Then pick one from Kearney, Stockdale, Conway and Earls for the other wing. I suppose Addison or Larmour would also be the ideal option at 23 as they can both play in numerous positions across the backline. But they're playing so well that they need to start.

Interested Observer

Not hard to read between the lines here from Murray Kinsella, it's just too risky to change things up too much from the team that performed absolutely miserably in 2019.

Completely tearing up the script with essentially only 10 days of preparation for the opener against Scotland in Dublin on Saturday 1 February would be silly, so there will naturally be an overlap from how Schmidt’s Ireland functioned, with Farrell stressing that he’d be “absolutely foolish not to harness those bits.”

That said, the 44-year-old Englishman wants his side to grow and he wants to put his own stamp on things. He understands that will take time and also that getting results is important too.

Prize money in the Six Nations is crucial to the IRFU, while a strong 2020 is vital for Ireland with the pool draw for the 2023 World Cup set to take place in November. World Rugby ranking position will, therefore, be crucial.

Clegg

Interested Observer wrote: »

Not hard to read between the lines here from Murray Kinsella, it's just too risky to change things up too much from the team that performed absolutely miserably in 2019.

Just read that myself. It makes complete sense from the coaches POV. They only have 10 days of training with the squad before the 6 Nations. That's not enough time to rip up the old game plan and come up with a completely new one. But what I hope to see is a bit more freedom in how we attack. We're far too dependent on Sexton structuring our attacks. He's a world class 10, but when he's off his game or out injured we look clueless. Play more through Ringrose. He has the stepping and passing ability to open any defence.

sydthebeat

At the same time, with a team made up of a majority of leinster players, it would be foolish not to employ some of Leinsters systems and patterns in attack (at least).

We cannot continue to employ a "possession first" based plan at the detriment of attacking opportunities. The flow of rugby games, and its laws, has changed significantly over the last couple of years to allow for a more free flowing game. Stadiums and pitches are off a quality these days that we don't play on mudbaths anymore, so burly forwards endlessly trucking it up isn't an effective means for your primary attack.... That should be used in order to create space. Yet time and again over the last few years we have kept our tight over and over until there's a turn over.

That's what we need to change in the first instance.... And if we have teams expecting us to truck it up one out all the time, we could certainly catch a few of them napping with running to soft shoulders, passing in or before the tackle, picking and going at ruck time... Constantly keeping them thinking. We have the players to do this.

Interested Observer

Clegg wrote: »

Just read that myself. It makes complete sense from the coaches POV. They only have 10 days of training with the squad before the 6 Nations. That's not enough time to rip up the old game plan and come up with a completely new one. But what I hope to see is a bit more freedom in how we attack. We're far too dependent on Sexton structuring our attacks. He's a world class 10, but when he's off his game or out injured we look clueless. Play more through Ringrose. He has the stepping and passing ability to open any defence.

He doesn't need to come up with a totally new attack, he just needs to pick a (large) majority of Leinster players and let them play as they do with Leinster. Keeping on doing what we're doing can only fail.

prawnsambo

Interested Observer wrote: »

He doesn't need to come up with a totally new attack, he just needs to pick a (large) majority of Leinster players and let them play as they do with Leinster. Keeping on doing what we're doing can only fail.

From the little hint in Stuart Lancaster's interview about players coming back from national squads, I suspect that we'll be moving in that direction alright. Ulster and Connacht players wouldn't be too far away from that mindset either. Munster are on the way to that style of play as well, just a bit further back in the development process.

aloooof

...while a strong 2020 is vital for Ireland with the pool draw for the 2023 World Cup set to take place in November. World Rugby ranking position will, therefore, be crucial.

The RWC pool draw seems to be getting earlier and earlier; this will be almost 3 years before the tournament takes place. That doesn't seem reasonable to me, WR rankings could have changed dramatically by the time the tournament comes around.

Is there a reason that it takes place so early that I'm overlooking? (I've a feeling someone's going to use the world "repechage").

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

Is there a case to be made for Addison and Larmour both starting? They're the in form back three players in Ireland right now. Then pick one from Kearney, Stockdale, Conway and Earls for the other wing. I suppose Addison or Larmour would also be the ideal option at 23 as they can both play in numerous positions across the backline. But they're playing so well that they need to start.

Unless you are putting Addison into the centre then no.


Larmour has been pushed around the team over the last few years and it makes no sense. He is a 15 and going forward will be a 15.



I see it as a straight fight between Larmour and Addison for the 15 jersey.



If we had weak centres then maybe but we don't. Ringrose is in exceptional form, Aki/Henshaw/Farrell are all playing well


Conway is in great form on wing, Stockdale is coming back into some good form and Earls is playing well.



Playing someone out of position because they are in form is not a great plan in my opinion.

Podge_irl

aloooof wrote: »

The RWC pool draw seems to be getting earlier and earlier; this will be almost 3 years before the tournament takes place. That doesn't seem reasonable to me, WR rankings could have changed dramatically by the time the tournament comes around.

Is there a reason that it takes place so early that I'm overlooking? (I've a feeling someone's going to use the world "repechage").

It has been this early for the last two world cups I think. I don't think it matters much once you're in the top 8 which we will be regardless so feck it.

the baby bull elephant

Interested Observer wrote: »

Not hard to read between the lines here from Murray Kinsella, it's just too risky to change things up too much from the team that performed absolutely miserably in 2019.

The very next line in the article has a quote from Farrell saying progressing our game would equal a successful six Nations.

Winning, fresh faces, and his 'ideas man' - Farrell launches the new Ireland era https://the42.ie/4976071

Interested Observer

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

The very next line in the article has a quote from Farrell saying progressing our game would equal a successful six Nations.

Winning, fresh faces, and his 'ideas man' - Farrell launches the new Ireland era https://the42.ie/4976071

Yes I'm aware of that. That's a quote from Farrell which Kinsella is transcribing. What I posted initially was Kinsella's thoughts on what we should do this year. Steady as she goes. Maybe we'll only lose by 20 in Twickenham this time.

stephen_n

The difference between 2018-2019 wasn’t a massive amount of adjustment in how we played. The idea of throwing it all out and starting again is really a case of trying to throw the baby out with the bath water. We need to evolve the game plan and that’s all that’s being suggested in that article.

ClanofLams

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/51222874

Finn Russell out of six nations ‘for reasons as yet unclear’ - guessing falling out/disciplinary issue?

Presume Adam Hastings will start. Seems like a positive for Ireland, Russell has been playing very well this season and whilst he can make errors, if he is on an ‘on’ day, can make a huge impact.

Former Former

Clegg wrote: »

Just read that myself. It makes complete sense from the coaches POV. They only have 10 days of training with the squad before the 6 Nations. That's not enough time to rip up the old game plan and come up with a completely new one. But what I hope to see is a bit more freedom in how we attack. We're far too dependent on Sexton structuring our attacks. He's a world class 10, but when he's off his game or out injured we look clueless. Play more through Ringrose. He has the stepping and passing ability to open any defence.

The other side of it is that whatever happened in 2019, it wasn't a personnel issue. Experienced guys were rubbish and in general, the less experienced guys who came in were just as bad, if not worse.

So it's far more important that there's a change of approach and a fresh attitude.

There's been a fair bit of attrition in the squad too. Of guys who went to the RWC, we won't be seeing: Best, Cronin, Scannell, Ryan, Kleyn, Beirne, Ruddock, Jordi, Conan, Carty, Carbery and Kearney. We have a heap of guys coming in who have zero or very low numbers of caps.

What change we see in the actual XV remains to be seen of course but wholesale changes would be counter-productive IMO.

Shefwedfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/51222874

Finn Russell out of six nations ‘for reasons as yet unclear’ - guessing falling out/disciplinary issue?

Presume Adam Hastings will start. Seems like a positive for Ireland, Russell has been playing very well this season and whilst he can make errors, if he is on an ‘on’ day, can make a huge impact.

It would be better for Ireland if Russell was playing.


He has an incredible pack at Racing and still isn't great. With a poor Scotland pack in front of him, he is liability. Especially away from home.

Shefwedfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Yes I'm aware of that. That's a quote from Farrell which Kinsella is transcribing. What I posted initially was Kinsella's thoughts on what we should do this year. Steady as she goes. Maybe we'll only lose by 20 in Twickenham this time.

That was a warm up game and irrelevant.....England by all accounts where a number of weeks ahead of Ireland in prep and in better form.



Look over the results in the last few years in 6 nations would be a better guide to a result in Twickers

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It would be better for Ireland if Russell was playing.


He has an incredible pack at Racing and still isn't great. With a poor Scotland pack in front of him, he is liability. Especially away from home.

Scotland under Hastings or Horne are predictable and have been hockeyed by France the last two times either of them started.

ClanofLams

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It would be better for Ireland if Russell was playing.


He has an incredible pack at Racing and still isn't great. With a poor Scotland pack in front of him, he is liability. Especially away from home.

He’s been very good for Racing. There’s a reason why they signed him on a big contract too, on form he is one of the best tens in Europe.

Hastings is a tidy ten, but both on form, Russell is currently well ahead of him.

If it is a falling out, can’t be great for morale in Scotland camp after disastrous World Cup.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It would be better for Ireland if Russell was playing.

He has an incredible pack at Racing and still isn't great. With a poor Scotland pack in front of him, he is liability. Especially away from home.

Is that actually accurate? I've only seen him in some of the Champions Cup games this season, but he's been very good any times I've seen him. At times, he's been unplayable. (Can't say I've seen any of the Top 14).

Really, we should be beating Scotland with or without him in the team, but really think it's an easier task if they don't have him.

Dubinusa

Can't wait for the 1st match. Evolving over the course of the 6nations would be ideal. I hope Deegan and Doris both get to start a match. It would be nice to see Heffernan too!
Evolving our game would mean less Sexton, imo. I would like to see Byrne get a start and Burns get one too. The over reliance on Sexton/Murray is a weakness, imo.
But it's a 5 match journey and there's plenty of options to blood new lads. There's time to move the game plan away from the static crap of the last year.
It's an opportunity to get bedded in a new system and while I doubt we will win the championship, I think we'll be pretty good. I think the change over to Farrell will be smooth and I think the players will be chomping at the bit to get into the matchday squad.

Interested Observer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That was a warm up game and irrelevant.....England by all accounts where a number of weeks ahead of Ireland in prep and in better form.



Look over the results in the last few years in 6 nations would be a better guide to a result in Twickers

The RWC is over, we all know what happened, you can drop the defence force routine.

aloooof

Dubinusa wrote: »

Can't wait for the 1st match. Evolving over the course of the 6nations would be ideal. I hope Deegan and Doris both get to start a match. It would be nice to see Heffernan too!
Evolving our game would mean less Sexton, imo. I would like to see Byrne get a start and Burns get one too. The over reliance on Sexton/Murray is a weakness, imo.
But it's a 5 match journey and there's plenty of options to blood new lads. There's time to move the game plan away from the static crap of the last year.
It's an opportunity to get bedded in a new system and while I doubt we will win the championship, I think we'll be pretty good. I think the change over to Farrell will be smooth and I think the players will be chomping at the bit to get into the matchday squad.

I'm expecting in the region of 3-5 max changes for the opening game. I've compared vs the Scotland game in the RWC, and the changes I'd like to see; I'd actually forgotten Conway and Larmour started that game, so I'm thinking something like this.

| RWC | 6 Nations
1 | Healy | Healy
2 | Best | Kelleher
3 | Furlong | Furlong
4 | Henderson | Henderson
5 | Ryan | Ryan
6 | POM | Stander
7 | VdF | VdF
8 | Stander | Doris
9 | Murray | Cooney
10 | Sexton | Sexton
11 | Stockdale | Stockdale
12 | Aki | Aki
13 | Ringrose | Ringrose
14 | Conway | Conway
15 | Larmour | Larmour


That'd be 3 personnel changes, and a change of position for Stander. If Kearney and Earls had been fit for the RWC opener, that would then be 5 changes.

On your point with regards 10, I'd be surprised if all of Sexton, Byrne and Burns all start a game tbh, bar injury tho.

shootermacg

aloooof wrote: »

I'm expecting in the region of 3-5 max changes for the opening game. I've compared vs the Scotland game in the RWC, and the changes I'd like to see; I'd actually forgotten Conway and Larmour started that game, so I'm thinking something like this.

| RWC | 6 Nations
1 | Healy | Healy
2 | Best | Kelleher
3 | Furlong | Furlong
4 | Henderson | Henderson
5 | Ryan | Ryan
6 | POM | Stander
7 | VdF | VdF
8 | Stander | Doris
9 | Murray | Cooney
10 | Sexton | Sexton
11 | Stockdale | Stockdale
12 | Aki | Aki
13 | Ringrose | Ringrose
14 | Conway | Conway
15 | Larmour | Larmour


That'd be 3 personnel changes, and a change of position for Stander. If Kearney and Earls had been fit for the RWC opener, that would then be 5 changes.

On your point with regards 10, I'd be surprised if all of Sexton, Byrne and Burns all start a game tbh, bar injury tho.

I'd be starting Toner over Henderson, Toner is the better starter for me. I don't see Henderson as more than an impact carrier. His lineout calling is better left forgotten.

aloooof

shootermacg wrote: »

I'd be starting Toner over Henderson, Toner is the better starter for me. I don't see Henderson as more than an impact carrier. His lineout calling is better left forgotten.

Toner's been in very good form to be fair to him, could easily see him getting the nod and I'd have no issues with that.

Shefwedfan

If they start Kelleher then maybe start Toner as he is used to throwing to Toner all season.

BonnieSituation

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That was a warm up game and irrelevant.....England by all accounts where a number of weeks ahead of Ireland in prep and in better form.



Look over the results in the last few years in 6 nations would be a better guide to a result in Twickers

It's funny you say that. Completely agree with you.

I mean, our results against Wales in the Summer count for nought apparently from most, but the Twickenham game holds its value. That narrative has wound me up no end since the summer.

molloyjh

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If they start Kelleher then maybe start Toner as he is used to throwing to Toner all season.

Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for this when it comes to settling in new guys. For me I'm probably settling more on the below for Scotland:

Healy Kelleher Furlong
Toner Ryan
Stander Doris VDF

Cooney Sexton
Aki Ringrose
Stockdale Larmour Conway

Herring, Kilcoyne, Porter, Henderson, POM, Murray, Byrne, Addison

Kelleher would be best served being surrounded by guys he knows when it comes to set piece. So with Healy and Furlong in the scrum and then Toner and Ryan for the line out. I also think that with a relatively weak Scottish pack we can afford to take a risk at 2.

This also gives plenty of carrying options in the pack. Then Herring and Henderson would be familiar with each other, with POM giving added line out solidity in the absence of Toner. Kilcoyne, Porter and Henderson give good ball carrying options off the bench too.

Sexton can help ease Cooney in while Murray helps Byrne. At FB I think you can switch between Larmour and Addison during the tournament. Both being real impact off the bench and cover multiple positions. Aki probably edges Henshaw, but I wouldnt be surprised to see rotation there too.