Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Vinnie222

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Schmitds reputation is in tatters. He's now slightly above Kidney in the ranking of Ireland coaches. I've spelt it out for you there, no need for thanks though.

Was this Irelands biggest loss at a world cup

Danthemanhere

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How? He won 1 Grand Slam and 2 6 nations

So how is it in tatters?

You spelt out nothing bar vague comments based on kidney who doesn’t even have close to Joe record at club level either

So again, please explain?

Like I said, Schmidt is just slightly ahead of Kidney in the rankings.

His awful preperation for this world cup. We lost to Japan, got destroyed by New Zealand and the other games weren't that good either. He flopped.

snotboogie

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Facts point to him being quite the opposite actually. The team weren't good enough, but that doesn't make him a bad coach. Put the world's best coach (whoever that is) in charge of Namibia, doesn't mean they're going to win the WC.

But please, continue trolling, don't let facts get in the way.

Joe finished up 3 and 3 in competitive World Cup matches with a negative points differential of 113 to 129. Its a decent sample size and a poor return, especially when the 6 teams were Italy, France, Argentina, Scotland, Japan and New Zealand. He had two quarter final loses where we shipped 40 + points, zero wins against competitive non 6 nations teams, his best result was against an extremely limited French side. Joe had enough chances at the biggest stage and he failed completely and comprehensively.

snotboogie

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How? He won 1 Grand Slam and 2 6 nations

So how is it in tatters?

You spelt out nothing bar vague comments based on kidney who doesn’t even have close to Joe record at club level either

So again, please explain?

Kidney won 2 Heineken Cups, his club record is not even close to Joe's? Really?

Danthemanhere

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Was this Irelands biggest loss at a world cup

You're right it is! Ireland's biggest ever defeat at a world cup and we've had some awful teams.

Shefwedfan

snotboogie wrote: »

Kidney won 2 Heineken Cups, his club record is not even close to Joe's? Really?

Joe
Top 14(with Cotter)
2 x HC
Amlin Cup
pro 14

Yes it doesn’t come close

At international level either, 1 Grand Slam with a EOS team and nothing else was a poor return which such an incredible group of players

awec

give it a rest with this Schmidt vs Kidney crap

Donnielighto

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Kidney won our first grand slam in how many years? Like I said, Schmidt is ahead of him but not by much now.

Kidney was a good motivator but not a good manager/coach. He won the slam with Eddie's team in his first year and went downhill after. Couldn't build but could motivate.

awec

As a team we've stagnated. 2019 has shown that.

Andy Farrell has a job on his hands rebuilding this side. It doesn't require major surgery in terms of personnel, but changes are needed. Obviously we need a replacement for Best. We need to address the back row, I am not sure we know what our most effective trio is.

Sexton and Murray are still the men at 9 and 10 for now, but this business of them playing 70+ minutes every game and the backup getting a token jog out needs to end. Decide who the next cab off the rank is and give them some meaningful game time.

In the back three it is time for Kearney to be put out to pasture. Larmour seems the most likely candidate for that spot. I'd like to see Conway used more.

fitz

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Kidney won our first grand slam in how many years? Like I said, Schmidt is ahead of him but not by much now.

If you think Schmidt's impact on Irish rugby isn't light-years ahead of the impact Kidney had, you really don't know a lot about rugby.

fitz

awec wrote: »

As a team we've stagnated. 2019 has shown that.

Andy Farrell has a job on his hands rebuilding this side. It doesn't require major surgery in terms of personnel, but changes are needed. Obviously we need a replacement for Best. We need to address the back row, I am not sure we know what our most effective trio is.

Sexton and Murray are still the men at 9 and 10 for now, but this business of them playing 70+ minutes every game and the backup getting a token jog out needs to end. Decide who the next cab off the rank is and give them some meaningful game time.

In the centre we are fine. In the back three it is time for Kearney to be put out to pasture. Larmour seems the most likely candidate for that spot. I'd like to see Conway used more.

We didn't progress this year, and Hansen clearly learned from the last defeat in Dublin. I think injuries to key players who then struggled with form during the year left us with no momentum, and you could see today the lack of confidence in the team. We weren't half the side of November 2018.

I think we need to develop systems that allow in form young players to come in and get capped quickly, without being in a number of camps before being ready. Ironically, I think going back to Joe's early Leinster mission of being the best passing team is what's needed, and any players who can't handle and pass the ball to keep continuity without always taking contact shouldn't make the team.

Shefwedfan

fitz wrote: »

We didn't progress this year, and Hansen clearly learned from the last defeat in Dublin. I think injuries to key players who then struggled with form during the year left us with no momentum, and you could see today the lack of confidence in the team. We weren't half the side of November 2018.

I think we need to develop systems that allow in form young players to come in and get capped quickly, without being in a number of camps before being ready. Ironically, I think going back to Joe's early Leinster mission of being the best passing team is what's needed, and any players who can't handle and pass the ball to keep continuity without always taking contact shouldn't make the team.

The difference between Leinster and Ireland is huge

With Leinster Joe had the players day in day out. He could teach them skills and get them playing to a specific way

Ireland he has them at different times during the year and then they head back to province to play a completely different game.



Joe has brought in young players, even when not in squad the likes of Larmour etc are in around the squad getting hints and tips so when they do get picked they are not overawed. This was a new process he brought in and it worked well.....



Joe has, with Nucifora put a system in place that younger players are coming up with those skills.



If you review everything over his reign a lot has worked well for Ireland. The last WC everything went right and then we lost half the team to injury and we got knocked out. He went to fixing that issue and build a huge squad. Which he done and build a team that could win....which he done but....when it came down to it he trusted his regualr players when he should have put in form players. POM, Stockdale, Kearney should not have been on pitch today. You could also question Henshaw and Healy.



Conway was on fire, so was Kilcoyne. Ruddock was in cracking form and was was larmour.


I am not saying we would have won starting those players, but we could have given a better account of ourselves.

Professor Genius

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The difference between Leinster and Ireland is huge

With Leinster Joe had the players day in day out. He could teach them skills and get them playing to a specific way

Ireland he has them at different times during the year and then they head back to province to play a completely different game.



Joe has brought in young players, even when not in squad the likes of Larmour etc are in around the squad getting hints and tips so when they do get picked they are not overawed. This was a new process he brought in and it worked well.....



Joe has, with Nucifora put a system in place that younger players are coming up with those skills.



If you review everything over his reign a lot has worked well for Ireland. The last WC everything went right and then we lost half the team to injury and we got knocked out. He went to fixing that issue and build a huge squad. Which he done and build a team that could win....which he done but....when it came down to it he trusted his regualr players when he should have put in form players. POM, Stockdale, Kearney should not have been on pitch today. You could also question Henshaw and Healy.



Conway was on fire, so was Kilcoyne. Ruddock was in cracking form and was was larmour.


I am not saying we would have won starting those players, but we could have given a better account of ourselves.

Carberry should have been starting 10. Sexton has been playing like a drain for the year

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The difference between Leinster and Ireland is huge

With Leinster Joe had the players day in day out. He could teach them skills and get them playing to a specific way

Ireland he has them at different times during the year and then they head back to province to play a completely different game.



Joe has brought in young players, even when not in squad the likes of Larmour etc are in around the squad getting hints and tips so when they do get picked they are not overawed. This was a new process he brought in and it worked well.....



Joe has, with Nucifora put a system in place that younger players are coming up with those skills.



If you review everything over his reign a lot has worked well for Ireland. The last WC everything went right and then we lost half the team to injury and we got knocked out. He went to fixing that issue and build a huge squad. Which he done and build a team that could win....which he done but....when it came down to it he trusted his regualr players when he should have put in form players. POM, Stockdale, Kearney should not have been on pitch today. You could also question Henshaw and Healy.



Conway was on fire, so was Kilcoyne. Ruddock was in cracking form and was was larmour.


I am not saying we would have won starting those players, but we could have given a better account of ourselves.

My biggest criticism of Joe is how poor the players look for the national team. This guys are well capable of passing, attacking etc, and show it for their club.

He's had them playing a style that doesn't take advantage of that at all. In addition, he's trying to play a power game that we don't have the players for, and picked guys who are lacking in rugby skills to accomplish that.

He's regularly ignored players tearing it up for their clubs doing so. We're told we should ignore the evidence before us, and that they must be deficient in the training camps. Different levels and proven performers over flash in the pans. What message does that send to the players? That it doesn't matter how well they do in actual games, there are the starters and everyone else. It's the same issue again and again, from EOS to Kidney, and now to Joe.

If the results posed by his tests in camp lead to results like today, then perhaps it's not the players that are deficient, but rather the test itself. The best coaches in sports are ruthless. Hansen, Belichick, they have a singular focus on winning. If a player isn't performing, he gets the boot.

DellyBelly

Professor Genius wrote: »

Carberry should have been starting 10. Sexton has been playing like a drain for the year

I said the exact same thing on both the Wales and Italy thread during the 6 nations and was shot down both times by a number of posters. Anybody who has a good judgement of rugby could see he was on the wane. I wonder will we see him again in an Irish jersey

thomond2006

Sexton is under contract for another two years and is on monster money. There's no question about him remaining in the Irish side. There is a glaring need for giving opportunities to someone to either replace Sexton when he retires or better still take the starting jersey from him.

Kearney is a different story. He's on a one year deal and should really be done with the Ireland side. There are plenty options at fullback.

Keith Earls is one of my favourite ever players but he's just turned 32 and like Kearney there are players ready to take his spot. His injury history would suggest he might have 2 seasons left at best. It's time to phase him out.

Bigboldworld

Sexton should pass the baton to Carbery, his form has been shockingly inconsistent, no faith in him anymore when he steps up to take the kicks, his conversion rate has been hit and miss for a good while now, new blood is needed

whatawaster

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sexton is under contract for another two years and is on monster money. There's no question about him remaining in the Irish side. There is a glaring need for giving opportunities to someone to either replace Sexton when he retires or better still take the starting jersey from him.

Would be the perfect time for Sexton to have gone to France. Him hanging on for 2 more years obviously helps Leinster in the short term, but long term it’s good only for his Lions chances

We need Byrne starting big games for Leinster

whatawaster

On Sexton, even if we are going to persist with him for 2 more years , it would be good for him, for Leinster and for Ireland for him to miss the 6N

Clegg

Bigboldworld wrote: »

Sexton should pass the baton to Carbery, his form has been shockingly inconsistent, no faith in him anymore when he steps up to take the kicks, his conversion rate has been hit and miss for a good while now, new blood is needed

New blood may be needed, but there's still the issue that Sexton is still the best 10 we have by an absolute mile. If he's fit and available to play for Ireland I don't think Farrell could leave him out.

Professor Genius

Clegg wrote: »

New blood may be needed, but there's still the issue that Sexton is still the best 10 we have by an absolute mile. If he's fit and available to play for Ireland I don't think Farrell could leave him out.

That is no longer true. On current form Carberry is the better 10.

Danthemanhere

Clegg wrote: »

New blood may be needed, but there's still the issue that Sexton is still the best 10 we have by an absolute mile. If he's fit and available to play for Ireland I don't think Farrell could leave him out.

If he's that far ahead of the next 10, then we're in big trouble. He was awful today.

ClanofLams

Donnielighto wrote: »

You can still win but it's not the priority in this situation. The WC is bigger and with the issues Ireland have in them it'd be a bigger achievement to reach a semi than get a GS, to me anyway but I'm fairly confident that'd be a common view. Phasing out players who won't be there or are expected to be on the downslope in 2023 should be the focus ow with at least 2 players legitimately competing for each spot.

Would be dreadful and damaging to rugby long term in this country. May also be utterly pointless if a single fixture in four years time goes wrong.

There’s also the point that Ireland have a significantly better chance if they are in the top 4 when the rankings for the draw are made.

Faugheen

Professor Genius wrote: »

That is no longer true. On current form Carberry is the better 10.

Bar one cameo against Italy, Carbery hasn’t shown the form to be selected ahead of Carty, never mind Sexton.

bilston

Sexton still has a role to play.

But let's see some new blood in February. For all the talk of us having the deepest squad ever I bet we could all have picked today's starting XV weeks ago.

I'd like to see Rhys Ruddock brought into the starting pack, I'd like to maybe see Eric O'Sullivan fast tracked through and personally I think someone with the physicality of Stuart McCloskey should be given a proper chance as well.

Oh and as an Ulster fan I have to say Jacob Stockdale needs to sort his s*** out. He was dreadful today. He can count himself lucky that Kearney and Earls are on their way out.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

My biggest criticism of Joe is how poor the players look for the national team. This guys are well capable of passing, attacking etc, and show it for their club.

He's had them playing a style that doesn't take advantage of that at all. In addition, he's trying to play a power game that we don't have the players for, and picked guys who are lacking in rugby skills to accomplish that.

He's regularly ignored players tearing it up for their clubs doing so. We're told we should ignore the evidence before us, and that they must be deficient in the training camps. Different levels and proven performers over flash in the pans. What message does that send to the players? That it doesn't matter how well they do in actual games, there are the starters and everyone else. It's the same issue again and again, from EOS to Kidney, and now to Joe.

If the results posed by his tests in camp lead to results like today, then perhaps it's not the players that are deficient, but rather the test itself. The best coaches in sports are ruthless. Hansen, Belichick, they have a singular focus on winning. If a player isn't performing, he gets the boot.

Who has ignored tearing it up for club?

Danthemanhere

Were other teams building last year while we were going all out? It looks like it now. They were great achievements and we all celebrated but they don't look as good in retrospect.

Clegg

Professor Genius wrote: »

That is no longer true. On current form Carberry is the better 10.

What current form does Carbery have? His last appearance was an awful cameo against Samoa. Before that he was injured for months.

Sexton was poor today. That's not in dispute. But don't assert that another player was in better form when that clearly isn't the case.

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who has ignored tearing it up for club?

He's pretty consistently ignored anyone from Connacht and Ulster. Continued to pick Munster backrow forwards over Leinster ones, who've outplayed them year after year.

Burkie1203

whatawaster wrote: »

We need Byrne starting big games for Leinster

Byrne started more "big" games then Sexton last season

January
V Toulouse & Wasps

April
V Ulster

May
V Munster


Sexton had 3.
Euro SF and Final
Pro14 final


Don't think Byrne is going to lack gametime in crunch matches