Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If sexton was from any other province there is no question that he would be dropped after that performance, but the fact that he is a Leinster player and has escaped a lot of criticism along with the legacy of smidths undroppable players means there is no real competition for his place. You won’t see any people in the media suggesting he be benched because of his poor performance.

There was no problem calling for POM to be dropped, Because his performances where below par and he was dropped. The same should happen sexton.

Drop him for the Italy game, and let him seek redemption in Paris.

The difference is Sexton has been one of the top performers for Leinster this season before his injury. His return was for Ireland and he was good in both matchs

His time on the pitch in the WC was also some of the better rugby we played. Bar the NZ match which was a complete system failure

POM has been out of form for Ireland and Munster for 12 months.

Its time to get over the Leinster v Munster stuff. It's very boring.

The simple fact is POM is out of form for too long now. Also the combination of POM/VDF/Stander has continued to fail for 12 months. Out of those 3 players which would you drop? which is the player out of form?


I think Keith Wood had a great point about a captain on the bench to come on, this could be a great role forPOM


Also I would play Doris/POM/Deegan against Italy, let POM add the experience and the two younger players the carrying game.

prawnsambo

kilns wrote: »

We go into the games with a lightweight pack including Toner, POM and VDF. We are always going to get blown away physically.

To be fair, Toner wasn't originally selected to start. It was Henderson.

stephen_n

prawnsambo wrote: »

Also in the 'only got the ball twice' stakes was Cian Healy. Who made 9 metres from his two carries. And was only on the pitch for 25 minutes yet seems to be getting stick for not being at his best.

Yeah that one had me scratching my head. You’d swear he’d been awful while he was on. I can’t think of anything he did wrong.

the baby bull elephant

stephen_n wrote: »

Yeah that one had me scratching my head. You’d swear he’d been awful while he was on. I can’t think of anything he did wrong.

Absolutely smashed one of the English players with a little help from Ryan, I wanna say it was on Underhill?

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

POM has been out of form for Ireland and Munster for 12 months.

Its time to get over the Leinster v Munster stuff. It's very boring.

The simple fact is POM is out of form for too long now. Also the combination of POM/VDF/Stander has continued to fail for 12 months. Out of those 3 players which would you drop? which is the player out of form?

You keep saying this but his very recent form has been good. He's been one of our best players in the each of the last 3 games.

I'd have Stander, VdF and Doris as the backrow against France, but that's not because POM is out of form.

Bridge93

I don’t understand the talk of phasing Healy out especially if the alternative is Dave Kilcoyne who was nothing great yesterday but more importantly is a year younger than Healy. Similar to cooney and Murray in an age sense but far less deserving of the starting shirt permanently

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

You keep saying this but his very recent form has been good. He's been one of our best players in the each of the last 3 games.

I'd have Stander, VdF and Doris as the backrow against France, but that's not because POM is out of form.

Come on but you see what you want to see


He was at best ok against a poor Scotland team which Ireland got bullied against. He was good against Wales



Not sure what he done against England, I didn't see anything which would keep his spot.



It's not like I have just started to have a go, I said this before the WC, we are now how many months on and anytime we face a decent team we get hammered. I am not laying all the blame on POM but he is part of an ineffective backrow. Based on last 12 months he is the one I would drop for the France game, as mentioned for Italy at 7 with Doris/Deegan I would play

Dubinusa

Kenny B wrote: »

England were hungrier and stronger and had a ruthless manner from the get go, they were not going to be bullied.

I keep seeing comments about how Leinster dominate teams and we should do what they do, against Club teams that's possible, against Intl teams it's not as easy.

Ringrose looks fabulous for Leinster, but in the last year is a shadow of himself for Ireland, He just tucks the ball under his arm and runs up blind alleys, releasing the ball too late (if he even does), Larmour is the same, 1st thought is to run even if the better option is to pass, he has more time against Clubs but looks lost against Top teams,

The sooner Addison is fit the better, Henshaw is a poor man's Aki who like Stander & Ryan does heroic stuff all day long, McCloskey should be next in line at 12, big and has decent hands.

As for Stockdale, he's just shocking, intercept tries are all good but he can't tackle and looks as lost as Larmour.

For me its a Midfield of Aki/Farrell for France with Addison at FB & 2 of Conway/Earls/Larmour on the wings, (no idea who's fit)

VDF or POM, it has to be one or the other from now on, Doris looked like a beast late in the game and at least Ryan showed a bit of bite but he's no enforcer, Toner good grief,

Healy hasn't come back from the WC yet and Furlong looks like he is dipping in form, the sooner the 6N finishes the better for these guys so they can regroup with Leinster and come back stronger, Kilcoyne is way ahead at present but does tend to be a better finisher,

Need a hooker and soon, Kelleher gets a shot because no else has put their hand up, so he should be given the chance to own the jersey,

Addison is a poor tackler. Regularly drops off the man. Larmour was not the problem yesterday. Addison would be a good shout on a wing.
Ringrose is brilliant! He was coming back from shoulder surgery last year. He was the best back at the world cup.
Addison is semi crooked. He's an Injury nightmare. He's very talented, no doubt, but so is Larmour.
These lads are transitioning to a new coaching ticket. Give them time. We didn't fire a shot yesterday! Larmour is not the reason.
McCloskey should be tested. He's certainly put his hand up! Schmidt didn't give him a shot. Schmidt didn't give a lot of guys a chance.
Everyone healthy, I go 11. Addison , 12 McCloskey , 13 Ringrose 14, Conway and Larmour at 15.

prawnsambo

Dubinusa wrote: »

Addison is a poor tackler. Regularly drops off the man. Larmour was not the problem yesterday. Addison would be a good shout on a wing.
Ringrose is brilliant! He was coming back from shoulder surgery last year. He was the best back at the world cup.
Addison is semi crooked. He's an Injury nightmare. He's very talented, no doubt, but so is Larmour.
These lads are transitioning to a new coaching ticket. Give them time. We didn't fire a shot yesterday! Larmour is not the reason.
McCloskey should be tested. He's certainly put his hand up! Schmidt didn't give him a shot. Schmidt didn't give a lot of guys a chance.
Everyone healthy, I go 11. Addison , 12 McCloskey , 13 Ringrose 14, Conway and Larmour at 15.

To be fair, we fired two shots yesterday. I know it doesn't feel like it, but we weren't firing blanks all day.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Come on but you see what you want to see.

...

I didn't see anything which would keep his spot.

Hmmm.

(Just mean this in jest, to illustrate it doesn't advance the argument. Will get into specifics below).

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's not like I have just started to have a go, I said this before the WC, we are now how many months on and anytime we face a decent team we get hammered. I am not laying all the blame on POM but he is part of an ineffective backrow. Based on last 12 months he is the one I would drop for the France game, as mentioned for Italy at 7 with Doris/Deegan I would play

To give you your due, you were saying saying this before the WC. But imo, POM has probably had his 3 best consecutive games since 2018. We know what he brings to the table; excellent on both sides of the lineout, very good maul defence and jackaller / slowing down at rucks.

He's also upped his ruck arrival numbers and tackle and carry stats. He's had important attacking contributions to a couple of our tries where he was previously getting criticised for contributing nothing in attack.

We also know he's unlikely to make "dominant" tackles or carry's, to use the latest vernacular. Neither does VdF. And I think that's a bigger reason for him not to be included than his form.

If Leavy were fit, I think it's a much closer call.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Hmmm.

(Just mean this in jest, to illustrate it doesn't advance the argument. Will get into specifics below).



To give you your due, you were saying saying this before the WC. But imo, POM has probably had his 3 best consecutive games since 2018. We know what he brings to the table; excellent on both sides of the lineout, very good maul defence and jackaller / slowing down at rucks.

He's also upped his ruck arrival numbers and tackle and carry stats. He's had important attacking contributions to a couple of our tries where he was previously getting criticised for contributing nothing in attack.

We also know he's unlikely to make "dominant" tackles or carry's, to use the latest vernacular. Neither does VdF. And I think that's a bigger reason for him not to be included than his form.

If Leavy were fit, I think it's a much closer call.

Leavy was a huge loss and even when he comes back I think Ireland have to plan that he won't be back in the squad. It is cruel but that is what the management should do,if he comes back it is a bonus

Granny15

kilns wrote: »

We go into the games with a lightweight pack including Toner, POM and VDF. We are always going to get blown away physically.

VDF is the best player in the country this season. To place blame on him when the whole pack got hosed is misguided. There were good performances from POM Ryan as well. What killed us was their carriers breaking the gain line constantly getting them going forward. If very hard for a pack to impose themselves when going back 10 metres with every carry. The game was won and lost in the 10 12 channels and on the gainline

Just rewatching, why didn't Larmour call the mark at 7 mins?

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just rewatching, why didn't Larmour call the mark at 7 mins?

Everyone has asked the same question, I think he made an error because he called it at the next play....

They have been trying to counter attack from deep so maybe he felt he could run it back but the English where on top of him

swiwi_

Based on what I've seen so far, if Ringrose is still out injured, I'd be seriously tempted to put Earls (!) at 13. I'd also put Addison at 15, move Larmour to the wing and ditch Stockdale. You could also put Addison at 13 and Earls on the wing. But Aki and Henshaw is too same-y and Stockdale has had a pretty rotten time at international level since the glory days of 2018. In any case, I have been pleasantly surprised by Keith with his bench cameos, his passing has been excellent.

Sinbad_NI

Cooney has to start... if for nothing else to kick the points.

Sinbad_NI

swiwi_ wrote: »

Based on what I've seen so far, if Ringrose is still out injured, I'd be seriously tempted to put Earls (!) at 13. I'd also put Addison at 15, move Larmour to the wing and ditch Stockdale. You could also put Addison at 13 and Earls on the wing. But Aki and Henshaw is too same-y and Stockdale has had a pretty rotten time at international level since the glory days of 2018. In any case, I have been pleasantly surprised by Keith with his bench cameos, his passing has been excellent.

Earls at 13. Dear Christ no.

AbusesToilets

swiwi_ wrote: »

Based on what I've seen so far, if Ringrose is still out injured, I'd be seriously tempted to put Earls (!) at 13. I'd also put Addison at 15, move Larmour to the wing and ditch Stockdale. You could also put Addison at 13 and Earls on the wing. But Aki and Henshaw is too same-y and Stockdale has had a pretty rotten time at international level since the glory days of 2018. In any case, I have been pleasantly surprised by Keith with his bench cameos, his passing has been excellent.

Vakatawa would have him on toast. Earls in for Stockdale all day long. I'd like to see McCloskey given a start at 12, shame Ringrose is out, that would be an interesting combo imo.

CMcsporty

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Vakatawa would have him on toast. Earls in for Stockdale all day long. I'd like to see McCloskey given a start at 12, shame Ringrose is out, that would be an interesting combo imo.

Baloucoune for Stockdale v Italy. Completely serious.
Larmour; Baloucoune, Aki, McCloskey, Conway; Byrne, Cooney v Italy

All the old guard must be slowly but surely taken out of the squad. Not bringing the likes of Earls back in.

CMcsporty

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Earls at 13. Dear Christ no.

We should Never Ever willingly be selecting Earls to start at 13 again. Ever!

The ultimate retrograde step.

& whatever the fall-out from Twickenham i really hope Larmour is not going to be moved from FB.

Shefwedfan

If Larmour get moved from fullback after 3 starts then we really are losing the plot.

He has been our best player so far this year, from an attacking point of view, he didn't have a bad game. For the first try he was back and could have collected but Sexton took over, maybe he could have got Sexton out of way as he had a better chance to collect.

But he is young, throwing him out to the wing now would be stupid. Especially for Addison, yes he might be a good player but his fitness record is awful. It was mentioned on one of the podcast that he had the same problem in England which doesn't bode well

prawnsambo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If Larmour get moved from fullback after 3 starts then we really are losing the plot.

He has been our best player so far this year, from an attacking point of view, he didn't have a bad game. For the first try he was back and could have collected but Sexton took over, maybe he could have got Sexton out of way as he had a better chance to collect.

But he is young, throwing him out to the wing now would be stupid. Especially for Addison, yes he might be a good player but his fitness record is awful. It was mentioned on one of the podcast that he had the same problem in England which doesn't bode well

He was out of position. Which is why Ford made the kick. He should have been directly behind the ruck, it's full back play 101. Instead he was too far to the right (from our POV). We probably should have had another player in the back field, but we tend to re-align with one player back when the play gets close to our 22 and have 14 in the defensive line. England clearly knew that, but that just makes it more vital for the full back to be positioned correctly.

Murray Kinsella picked it out in his analysis

irishbucsfan

If there were supposed to be 2 back covering then he wasn't out of position

Interested Observer

Even if he was out of position he still would have comfortably made it to the ball ahead of the English player. As Sexton did. There's only one player responsible here.

prawnsambo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If there were supposed to be 2 back covering then he wasn't out of position

Yeah. But apparently we switch to 14-1 closer to our line. There may have been confusion on when we switch from 13-2 to 14-1 and Larmour could well have been thinking he was getting support and moved accordingly.

prawnsambo

Interested Observer wrote: »

Even if he was out of position he still would have comfortably made it to the ball ahead of the English player. As Sexton did. There's only one player responsible here.

If he was in position, would Ford have even taken the kick?

Shefwedfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

He was out of position. Which is why Ford made the kick. He should have been directly behind the ruck, it's full back play 101. Instead he was too far to the right (from our POV). We probably should have had another player in the back field, but we tend to re-align with one player back when the play gets close to our 22 and have 14 in the defensive line. England clearly knew that, but that just makes it more vital for the full back to be positioned correctly.

Murray Kinsella picked it out in his analysis

If that was Kearney you would hammer him but I will go back to my original point


"Third game starting at 15"


It will be at least 10-15 before he is comfortable


I do find it hilarious, people push for young players, then they get a start and people hammer them for making the odd error, the whole reason to push for young is the benefits versus the drawbacks. Yes you lose some of the positional sense of Kearney but look at all the benefits Larmour brings.

Shefwedfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Even if he was out of position he still would have comfortably made it to the ball ahead of the English player. As Sexton did. There's only one player responsible here.

He arrived at the same time as Sexton and Sexton took over. b

Shefwedfan

prawnsambo wrote: »

If he was in position, would Ford have even taken the kick?

Yes, because that was the game plan. For evidence please see Aviva 2019

sydthebeat

I'd have expected one of at least Sexton or larmour to have called for that ball.

By the way larmour slowed it would appear Sexton made a call