Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

ClanofLams

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Who cares who the captain is. It has little material impact beyond the supposed right to talk to the ref. I'd rather they focus on picking players who can play rugby. Attack through a gap, draw and give, run a support line. You don't need to be "The Leader" to have leadership.

It’s probably over hyped by media but don’t think it’s accurate to say it has little material impact either. It’s an important role.

shootermacg

The next WC is 4 years away, anyone that will be over 32 for that probably should not be given a central contract extension. Even the mighty kieran Read at 33 is not what he once was.

FrancieBrady

PTH2009 wrote: »

1st Feb 2020 in the 6 Nations at home to Scotland

Squad and training camp in January 2020 id say

Thought they might have had a warm-up...straight down to business so!

Burkie1203

shootermacg wrote: »

. Even the mighty kieran Read at 33 is not what he once was.

He was excellent today

AbusesToilets

Central contracts contribute to the problem that continually comes re: selection. They reward past form, rather than incentivise future performances. You get situations where a contracted player is past it, but the pressure is there to pick him because of the cost of his deal. They should be scrapped, and replaced with incentive driven deals, that encourages and rewards good performance.

PTH2009

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thought they might have had a warm-up...straight down to business so!

Yep straight in the deep end for Andy (handsome man btw and a granddad amazingly ha)

Declan Kidney and Joe started there Reigns in the november international window

Exclamation Marc

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Central contracts contribute to the problem that continually comes re: selection. They reward past form, rather than incentivise future performances. You get situations where a contracted player is past it, but the pressure is there to pick him because of the cost of his deal. They should be scrapped, and replaced with incentive driven deals, that encourages and rewards good performance.

Players would leave the country. The provinces can't afford to pay competitive salaries themselves compared to England and France. We'd suffer a lot more in the long run. You think a player will turn down a guaranteed multiple of their salary to stay on a smaller salary at Leinster or another province in the hope they can make it up with performance based pay? Not a chance.

And conversely, do you think the provinces can afford to pay the contacts currently being paid by the irfu and then lose those players to international duty AND still pay its other players? The entire islands rugby would fall apart.

It has its flaws and they need refining, but without central contacts we'd be a lot worse off than we are now

AbusesToilets

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Players would leave the country. The provinces can't afford to pay competitive salaries themselves compared to England and France. We'd suffer a lot more in the long run. You think a player will turn down a guaranteed multiple of their salary to stay on a smaller salary at Leinster or another province in the hope they can make it up with performance based pay? Not a chance.

And conversely, do you think the provinces can afford to pay the contacts currently being paid by the irfu and then lose those players to international duty AND still pay its other players? The entire islands rugby would fall apart.

It has its flaws and they need refining, but without central contacts we'd be a lot worse off than we are now

I think we're approaching a point where they'll have to look at a change in the set up tbh. Perhaps seeking more structured private investment/ ownership of the provinces. A properly structured rugby calendar would assist in that, better demarcating the club and international seasons.

Donnielighto

bilston wrote: »

It will be interesting to see who takes over as Captain.

O'Mahony will probably be favourite, but personally I'd have Ruddock in the side at the minute. Sexton has enough to worry about without being skipper. It might well be Ryan, unless there is a surprise option.

Of course if Ruddock plays he could be an option, but given he would always be looking over his shoulder it would be a risky call.

I don't think omahony has the personality to manage refs as captain, too dour and defensive. Ryan would be my choice for captain.

Donnielighto

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think we're approaching a point where they'll have to look at a change in the set up tbh. Perhaps seeking more structured private investment/ ownership of the provinces. A properly structured rugby calendar would assist in that, better demarcating the club and international seasons.

Private investment taking equity or decision making in the provinces won't benefit the national team long term.

AbusesToilets

Donnielighto wrote: »

Private investment taking equity or decision making in the provinces won't benefit the national team long term.

Not sure how true that is. Other nations seem to manage alright. There's a balance to be struck certainly. If CVC manage to consolidate their rugby holdings and pull off a B&I league, or greater, I could see some form of private ownership being the price for entry for the Provinces.

A lot of the friction between Premier League and the RFU comes from the demands of the national team. Moving the 6Ns til after the league finishes would help remove that obstacle.

Less gerrymandering at the club level and more professionalism with respect to finances need not be a bad thing if done correctly.

blinding

Will Carling Captained England at a young age and managed to get around to shagging Princess Diana . Have we anyone capable of shagging Jennifer Lawrence or Diana equivalent ?

The Rape of Lucretia

Rob Saunders is the captain who brought Ireland closest to a semi final (about 60 seconds away), and was 23.

AbusesToilets

Pretty sad that our greatest sporting success happened almost 3 decades ago, before professionalism. Italia 90 and the 91 WC.

The Rape of Lucretia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Pretty sad that our greatest sporting success happened almost 3 decades ago, before professionalism. Italia 90 and the 91 WC.

RoMac and P Harrington are Ireland's greatest sporting successes.

Former Former

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

RoMac and P Harrington are Ireland's greatest sporting successes.

Eh, what about our greatest ever Olympian, three golds and a bronze?

blinding

Former Former wrote: »

Eh, what about our greatest ever Olympian, three golds and a bronze?

And She could Pee Whiskey !

The Rape of Lucretia

Former Former wrote: »

Eh, what about our greatest ever Olympian, three golds and a bronze?

'Whiskey' Smith ?

:D:D

I shouldnt be laughing it seems, given that Ireland lost todat. But they idea of her being still classed as a winner is nice. The crazy idea has cheered me up.

Exclamation Marc

https://twitter.com/MikeRoss03/status/1185530535583604736?s=19

https://twitter.com/MikeRoss03/status/1185531980420730880?s=19

Exclamation Marc

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I think we're approaching a point where they'll have to look at a change in the set up tbh. Perhaps seeking more structured private investment/ ownership of the provinces. A properly structured rugby calendar would assist in that, better demarcating the club and international seasons.

Private ownership of provinces? Seriously? As I said, I see the need to fine tune and amend certain set-ups but leaving the jackals in to run and own clubs would be a really really bad idea.

You do know that all but one or two Premiership clubs per year generally lose money hand over fist. Two years ago, some of these privately owned clubs were losing between 2 and 8 million per year. When those owners lose interest or the game takes a dive in popularity and the turnover dries up, those clubs are utterly fücked. At least the provinces and national team are properly managed financially as is.

Private ownership would destroy Irish rugby, period. Let's make changes or tighten policies but the nuclear route is not something that should or ever will happen.

AbusesToilets

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Private ownership of provinces? Seriously? As I said, I see the need to fine tune and amend certain set-ups but leaving the jackals in to run and own clubs would be a really really bad idea.

You do know that all but one or two Premiership clubs per year generally lose money hand over fist. Two years ago, some of these privately owned clubs were losing between 2 and 8 million per year. When those owners lose interest or the game takes a dive in popularity and the turnover dries up, those clubs are utterly fücked. At least the provinces and national team are properly managed financially as is.

Private ownership would destroy Irish rugby, period. Let's make changes or tighten policies but the nuclear route is not something that should or ever will happen.

I'm well aware of the ills suffered by the Premiership, their model isn't sustainable imo. For rugby to actually generate profit, there needs to be a pan Euro league. With franchises most likely, ala the NFL.

The point I was making with respect to central contracts , is that they contribute to a conservative selection policy. A coach is going to feel pressure to pick the guy on one over the guy who isn't. The IRFU should look at how they handle them, to facilitate more competition in the squad and incentivise success.

Donnielighto

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Not sure how true that is. Other nations seem to manage alright. There's a balance to be struck certainly. If CVC manage to consolidate their rugby holdings and pull off a B&I league, or greater, I could see some form of private ownership being the price for entry for the Provinces.

A lot of the friction between Premier League and the RFU comes from the demands of the national team. Moving the 6Ns til after the league finishes would help remove that obstacle.

Less gerrymandering at the club level and more professionalism with respect to finances need not be a bad thing if done correctly.

CVC will raid the competition of cash and push player welfare to the side after a few years. They are a business who intend to make money. If the national unions lose control we'll see an improvement in the short term but the soul and the control gone down the line. The ownership of these competitions should be kept within the control of the player base and club members within the unions, that's all levels of clubs.


CVC won't be more professional in looking after players, they will look after investors with the players as assets. I trust the unions to look after the longer term health of the game better because they will be staffed by a large portion of rugby men and women along with the needed outside admin.

It's not the national team or the professional leagues alone that need to be looked after, the amateur does too and CVC will not care about that and even if they are tied to funnelling cash downwards if they gain control of the leagues or the Six nation's that cash will be negotiated down.

CVC and the like would be selling the soul of the game and it doesnt need that, there's enough money in the game, here at least.


I'd be fine with moving the 6 nation's and redoing the calendar but that could be done at any point.

Donnielighto

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

RoMac and P Harrington are Ireland's greatest sporting successes.

What about Stephen Roche and his questionable recoveries.

riddles

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

'Whiskey' Smith ?

:D:D

I shouldnt be laughing it seems, given that Ireland lost todat. But they idea of her being still classed as a winner is nice. The crazy idea has cheered me up.

The Americans and British have no scruples celebrating people whose achievements on reflection could be considered extremely dubious Carl Lewis, linford Christie, Michael Johnson, and Mo Farrah to take a rather small but significant sample.

blinding

Donnielighto wrote: »

What about Stephen Roche and his questionable recoveries.

Well cycling , ya know , everybody knows .

Burkie1203

Danthemanhere wrote: »

No one ever said there hasn't been young captains. It's just a case of it being beneficial or not. There's no rush, give him a few years, maybe even captain Leinster first.

https://twitter.com/Cumoski/status/1185764123327389697?s=19

Burkie1203

Danthemanhere wrote: »

No one ever said there hasn't been young captains. It's just a case of it being beneficial or not. There's no rush, give him a few years, maybe even captain Leinster first.

https://twitter.com/Cumoski/status/1185764123327389697?s=19

Interested Observer

What other candidates are there now? I don't really see who else it's going to be tbh.

Danthemanhere

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Cumoski/status/1185764123327389697?s=19

He gave the journalists some copy, quick, make him captain. :pac:

Danthemanhere

I'm still puzzled as to what our coaching team have been doing for the past year. We were all thinking they must have something up their sleeves, they must be holding things back but no, they literally had nothing. If anything we just went more conservative, completely the wrong approach. It doesn't bode well with Farrell coming in. But questions have to be asked of Schmidt, we were as poorly prepared for this world cup as we have ever been. Our worst defeat ever at a world cup when losing against Japan and then our biggest ever defeat at a world cup when losing to New Zealand.