Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Riskymove

If the games are rescheduled for October then he would be eligible

usually the November games are the first opportunity in a season for players to be selected

technically he would be eligible from august/September

Former Former

Riskymove wrote: »

If the games are rescheduled for October then he would be eligible

usually the November games are the first opportunity in a season for players to be selected

technically he would be eligible from august/September

No, he's eligible in November, since he played the ITM Cup in New Zealand up to the end of October 2017.

The Lost Sheep

Riskymove wrote: »

If the games are rescheduled for October then he would be eligible

usually the November games are the first opportunity in a season for players to be selected

technically he would be eligible from august/September

he arrived late due to mitre10 so it wasnt August or September. He arrived in October if not early November

Riskymove

Former Former wrote: »

No, he's eligible in November, since he played the ITM Cup in New Zealand up to the end of October 2017.

oh right I wasn't aware of that

31st October or November being touted at present so he may well be eligible

Buer

James Lowe isn't necessarily going to go straight into the Irish starting side anyway. I don't believe his performances this season have been quite at the level of what we've seen in his first two seasons. Definitely going to be in the Irish squad and will surely collect a good few caps (as much as his age will allow, anyway) but I don't see him being a must start player currently having been in that bracket 12 months ago.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

James Lowe isn't necessarily going to go straight into the Irish starting side anyway. I don't believe his performances this season have been quite at the level of what we've seen in his first two seasons. Definitely going to be in the Irish squad and will surely collect a good few caps (as much as his age will allow, anyway) but I don't see him being a must start player currently having been in that bracket 12 months ago.

Probably not as eye catching as previous seasons but Leinster as a team are creating so many mismatches and scoring opportunities with ball in hand that the back three's input into the game is somewhat diluted.

I still expect him to walk into the starting team. Who would you realistically start ahead of him?

Faugheen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably not as eye catching as previous seasons but Leinster as a team are creating so many mismatches and scoring opportunities with ball in hand that the back three's input into the game is somewhat diluted.

I still expect him to walk into the starting team. Who would you realistically start ahead of him?

This for me. Lowe continues to show that he’s by far and away the best winger playing in Ireland at the moment.

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably not as eye catching as previous seasons but Leinster as a team are creating so many mismatches and scoring opportunities with ball in hand that the back three's input into the game is somewhat diluted.

I still expect him to walk into the starting team. Who would you realistically start ahead of him?

I'd say Conway is the front runner for a starting spot in Ireland currently. After that, there's a few guys. Lowe is up there, definitely. DK deserves to be in the mix just as much as Lowe this season.

Earls and Stockdale have had weird seasons. Stockdale has looked much better for Ulster since the RWC but has had a poor 6N. Earls looked very mediocre for Munster but has done very well with his limited opportunities in green. They're in precarious positions and could find themselves outside the Irish 23 if they don't maintain a solid performance level.

Baloucoune deserves to be in the conversation and there's a very good case for a fit Addison being in the team with Larmour moving to the wing too; that's possibly my preference (I'd be as happy with Lowe on the wing as Larmour).

Lowe could well start and I'd have no issue or question of it. He's a quality player but I don't see him as walking into the side at all as a must start.

thomond2006

Earls will turn 33 next October. He will surely be in the category of only being selected if he's by far the best option.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

I'd say Conway is the front runner for a starting spot in Ireland currently. After that, there's a few guys. Lowe is up there, definitely. DK deserves to be in the mix just as much as Lowe this season.

Earls and Stockdale have had weird seasons. Stockdale has looked much better for Ulster since the RWC but has had a poor 6N. Earls looked very mediocre for Munster but has done very well with his limited opportunities in green. They're in precarious positions and could find themselves outside the Irish 23 if they don't maintain a solid performance level.

Baloucoune deserves to be in the conversation and there's a very good case for a fit Addison being in the team with Larmour moving to the wing too; that's possibly my preference.

Lowe could well start. He's a quality player but I don't see him as walking into the side at all; he doesn't deserve to.

I probably agree with you on Conway but he still isn't in the same calibre of player as Lowe for me, despite being in excellent form this year.

Lowe is the most complete attacking player we have. Great hands, good in the air, good step and he can go through players when he needs to. He is good at the breakdown and his try against Glasgow showed the type of strength you would expect from a flanker in how he used his fend to maintain his line.

Stockdale is probably our next most overall gifted player but form has left him trailing Conway. Like Lowe - Stockdale is our only other player that can consistently produce scoring chances from nothing, but either the lack of platform he is getting with Ireland or a drop in form has left him looking quite ordinary the last 18 months.

Shefwedfan

Buer wrote: »

James Lowe isn't necessarily going to go straight into the Irish starting side anyway. I don't believe his performances this season have been quite at the level of what we've seen in his first two seasons. Definitely going to be in the Irish squad and will surely collect a good few caps (as much as his age will allow, anyway) but I don't see him being a must start player currently having been in that bracket 12 months ago.

He had a late start to the season because of injury so the early games he was not on top form,



I know stats can lie but seems anything I see he is top
https://www.rugbypass.com/pro-14/teams/leinster/players/james-lowe/


Just an example.



At the moment I wouldn't expect him to walk in because it would cause uproar but in reality if he was available tomorrow morning he would be on the bench and into the 15 the following week......

Riskymove

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the moment I wouldn't expect him to walk in because it would cause uproar

no more than any of the others tbh

Clegg

The one reservation I have about Lowe is his lack of pace. He's an explosive athlete and can make it over the gain line with his power. But when put into open field he's not the quickest. He makes up for that with his excellent offloading and line running. He's the most threatening back in Ireland imo. But margins are very tight at test level. And lacking that bit of speed could be the difference between scoring or not.

prawnsambo

Riskymove wrote: »

oh right I wasn't aware of that

31st October or November being touted at present so he may well be eligible

From the man himself on the day he arrived

bilston

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He had a late start to the season because of injury so the early games he was not on top form,



I know stats can lie but seems anything I see he is top
https://www.rugbypass.com/pro-14/teams/leinster/players/james-lowe/


Just an example.



At the moment I wouldn't expect him to walk in because it would cause uproar but in reality if he was available tomorrow morning he would be on the bench and into the 15 the following week......

Jared Payne walked into the side as soon as he became available. Admittedly he was filling a vacated spot in the team.

Lowe would likely be taking the place of a 23 year old record Six Nations try scorer in Stockdale, or an all time hero in Earls or quality player in Conway which makes it a little bit more controversial

Ultimately Farrell will just pick the best team to win games whether it includes Lowe or not will be down to him.

Shefwedfan

bilston wrote: »

Jared Payne walked into the side as soon as he became available. Admittedly he was filling a vacated spot in the team.

Lowe would likely be taking the place of a 23 year old record Six Nations try scorer in Stockdale, or an all time hero in Earls or quality player in Conway which makes it a little bit more controversial

Ultimately Farrell will just pick the best team to win games whether it includes Lowe or not will be down to him.

Stockdale is suffering from poor form at the moment, Earls has been a great player but not getting any younger, Conway will start


If it was tomorrow I would have Lowe/Conway with Stockdale/Earls on bench

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

The one reservation I have about Lowe is his lack of pace. He's an explosive athlete and can make it over the gain line with his power. But when put into open field he's not the quickest. He makes up for that with his excellent offloading and line running. He's the most threatening back in Ireland imo. But margins are very tight at test level. And lacking that bit of speed could be the difference between scoring or not.

He has burned a number of players in Pro14 this season, I doubt he is the quickest around but he is no slouch

Zzippy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He has burned a number of players in Pro14 this season, I doubt he is the quickest around but he is no slouch

Ah, but has he done it at Champions Cup level? That's the real barometer, right?

Paul Smeenus

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah, but has he done it at Champions Cup level? That's the real barometer, right?

International level is the only barometer, I thought? That's why Cooney doesn't start, it was explained to me. He's good at provincial level but we don't know that he can do it in green.

Zzippy

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

International level is the only barometer, I thought? That's why Cooney doesn't start, it was explained to me. He's good at provincial level but we don't know that he can do it in green.

That's the next step up in the moving goalposts phenomenon

Former Former

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

International level is the only barometer, I thought? That's why Cooney doesn't start, it was explained to me. He's good at provincial level but we don't know that he can do it in green.

Pretty much, yeah.

Cooney is pretty limited and tbh, I wouldn't be confident that Lowe is test quality either.

I'm sure he'll pick up a few caps, he might be better than Conway and Earls will be 33 when Lowe qualifies, but I'm not seeing a guy who's going walk into the test side or be first choice for Ireland for the next five years.

Shefwedfan

Zzippy wrote: »

Ah, but has he done it at Champions Cup level? That's the real barometer, right?

Paul Smeenus

Former Former wrote: »

Pretty much, yeah.

Cooney is pretty limited and tbh, I wouldn't be confident that Lowe is test quality either.

I'm sure he'll pick up a few caps, he might be better than Conway and Earls will be 33 when Lowe qualifies, but I'm not seeing a guy who's going walk into the test side or be first choice for Ireland for the next five years.

Fair enough. Can't argue with consistency.

prawnsambo

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

International level is the only barometer, I thought? That's why Cooney doesn't start, it was explained to me. He's good at provincial level but we don't know that he can do it in green.

Zzippy wrote: »

That's the next step up in the moving goalposts phenomenon

Well Connacht wear green, ergo Cooney can do it in green. QED.

Shefwedfan

Like any player, we will have to see. Everything he has done so far would suggest the step up to international level should be achievable.

part time punk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Stockdale is suffering from poor form at the moment,

Not directly at you necessarily and not trolling but been thinking about this a bit recently ....

Is there a point where we need to consider that Stockdale may have been a one season wonder. In 2018 every bounce of the ball went his way - how many of his international tries were chip and chases - all his intercepts were on the money etc. I haven't seen anything since then internationally anyway, admittedly not seen muich of Ulster, to suggest he could have a Tommy Bowe/Keith Earls type international career over many years.

Prepared to be slated for this heresy, will pop back later:)

Shefwedfan

part time punk wrote: »

Not directly at you necessarily and not trolling but been thinking about this a bit recently ....

Is there a point where we need to consider that Stockdale may have been a one season wonder. In 2018 every bounce of the ball went his way - how many of his international tries were chip and chases - all his intercepts were on the money etc. I haven't seen anything since then internationally anyway, admittedly not seen muich of Ulster, to suggest he could have a Tommy Bowe/Keith Earls type international career over many years.

Prepared to be slated for this heresy, will pop back later:)

He was marked at U20 level. He has played well for Ulster the few times I have seen him.


I think like all players he has had a bit of a dip but he will come back. Bowe/Earls etc all suffered dips in form and came back.

Paul Smeenus

part time punk wrote: »

Not directly at you necessarily and not trolling but been thinking about this a bit recently ....

Is there a point where we need to consider that Stockdale may have been a one season wonder. In 2018 every bounce of the ball went his way - how many of his international tries were chip and chases - all his intercepts were on the money etc. I haven't seen anything since then internationally anyway, admittedly not seen muich of Ulster, to suggest he could have a Tommy Bowe/Keith Earls type international career over many years.

Prepared to be slated for this heresy, will pop back later:)

Could be the case. Maybe that first year was a flash in the pan.

Pretty much the whole team was mince last year, though. If we assume Stockdale was a one season wonder, which is not out of the question, there are equally some players of whom we should be asking, are they just done and dusted, and they've been much more important to Ireland in the past.

Paul Smeenus

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back like a rocket or turned it round but never reached those heights again. Could well imagine either.

prawnsambo

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back like a rocket or turned it round but never reached those heights again. Could well imagine either.

I think the difficulty for players like Stockdale is that they are unknown quantities to oppositions for a while and then they learn more about how he plays and exploit his weaknesses and don't play to (or negate) his strengths. He's young enough to round out his game and become a more complete player.