Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Richie_Rich89

Ireland backline when Lowe qualifies?

9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. James Lowe
12. Bundee Aki/Robbie Henshaw
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Andrew Conway
15. Jacob Stockdale

21. John Cooney
22. Ross Byrne/Ciarán Frawley/Harry Byrne
23. Jordan Larmour

not considered due to lack of durability: Joey Carbery, Will Addison

Think I'd personally prefer Baloucoune on the right wing instead of Conway. He's a real smart defender, which is invaluable out on the right edge. Conway and Earls are fine defensively, but not on Baloucoune's level in terms of making really good reads and shutting down attacks.

The options at 12 are a bit uninspiring. I't be great to see Leinster put some effort into developing Conor O'Brien properly. Now there's a guy with the tools to play 12.

Think Earls is kind of winding down at this level.

Not sure what Stockdale has done to deserve the 15 jersey

Faugheen

Your obsession with Conor O’Brien is weird.

Talented player, but really hasn’t done anything to prove to me that he’s a better 12 than Rory O’Loughlin, never mind Henshaw or Aki.

Burkie1203

Interesting

https://twitter.com/Cumoski/status/1265963988426412033?s=19

Burkie1203

Philip Browne was on OTB this morning with Keith Wood and Ger Gilroy. Its worth a listen. It's about 50 min long and he is very open and honest about the outlook.

Also had a dig at the SH unions over their constant crying about revenue sharing

Rigor Mortis

Faugheen wrote: »

Your obsession with Conor O’Brien is weird.

Talented player, but really hasn’t done anything to prove to me that he’s a better 12 than Rory O’Loughlin, never mind Henshaw or Aki.

But he's Local

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I mean if there was a different coach than Lancaster there the depth wouldn't look as good. Even Schmidt, who got superior results as a coach at international level, wasn't quite as good for me at developing the whole squad up to the level where they could slot in and perform straight away.

Did you see the Leinster squad when Schmidt was in charge? It was a machine. Players dropping in and out and no drop in performance

Bar the WC he achieved pretty much the same with Ireland, the Grand Slam year how many centres did we lose and we didn’t even have to call in COB :-)

irishbucsfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Philip Browne was on OTB this morning with Keith Wood and Ger Gilroy. Its worth a listen. It's about 50 min long and he is very open and honest about the outlook.

Also had a dig at the SH unions over their constant crying about revenue sharing

I haven't heard that but how on earth could someone from the IRFU, whose success has been built on revenue sharing with the English and French, take a dig at anyone for wanting the same! :pac:

BonnieSituation

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Philip Browne was on OTB this morning with Keith Wood and Ger Gilroy. Its worth a listen. It's about 50 min long and he is very open and honest about the outlook.

Also had a dig at the SH unions over their constant crying about revenue sharing

Here it is up on Spotify anyway:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0zz4M858C8tdBaAzKjXOVu?si=k4v9NoRpTTSwvfBg-mR7Zg

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you see the Leinster squad when Schmidt was in charge? It was a machine. Players dropping in and out and no drop in performance

Bar the WC he achieved pretty much the same with Ireland, the Grand Slam year how many centres did we lose and we didn’t even have to call in COB :-)

I'm certainly not ragging on Schmidt. What he did with Leinster was a real eye opener in terms of the difference quality coaching can make.

That said - and maybe there's an element of recency bias here - I do think the 2nd and 3rd choice players are better able to fill in now without a drop in performance level. Maybe the league was stronger back under Schmidt, and maybe the conference system makes it easier now, but Leinster didn't dominate in the league under Schmidt like they do now. I think they only finished top in one out of his three seasons. In 2011 they had to go away to Munster in the final, and in 2013 they were only at home in the final because Ulster weren't able to host it.

This article is interesting https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/21/from-aquarius-to-leo-rising/. Both Schmidt and Lancaster were/are good at bringing through young players. The average no. of U23 players starting in league matches in Schmidt's three seasons at the helm was 2.96, 3.08 and 2.79. In Lancaster's first year it jumped up from 2.71 the previous year to 3.65. Then in '17/'18 it levelled off at an average of 2.94 young players starting in the league. It'd be interesting to see the stats for the last two seasons.

There was an interesting post on leinsterfans giving the stats for percentage of homegrown players in the squad through the years. Under Schmidt, it was 72% in '10/'11, going down to 65% and then 63% the following two seasons. It's been going up from 73% to 76% to 79% to 83% in all the time Lancaster has been on board. Obviously that doesn't tell the full picture. Guys like Dundon and Auva'a, who probably didn't go down as homegrown players would still have needed to be developed into league standard players.

Obviously there are other factors at play in how players develop than just who the head coach of the senior team is, but I think the stats point to things being very healthy at the moment.

salmocab

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm certainly not ragging on Schmidt. What he did with Leinster was a real eye opener in terms of the difference quality coaching can make.

That said - and maybe there's an element of recency bias here - I do think the 2nd and 3rd choice players are better able to fill in now without a drop in performance level. Maybe the league was stronger back under Schmidt, and maybe the conference system makes it easier now, but Leinster didn't dominate in the league under Schmidt like they do now. I think they only finished top in one out of his three seasons. In 2011 they had to go away to Munster in the final, and in 2013 they were only at home in the final because Ulster weren't able to host it.

This article is interesting https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/21/from-aquarius-to-leo-rising/. Both Schmidt and Lancaster were/are good at bringing through young players. The average no. of U23 players starting in league matches in Schmidt's three seasons at the helm was 2.96, 3.08 and 2.79. In Lancaster's first year it jumped up from 2.71 the previous year to 3.65. Then in '17/'18 it levelled off at an average of 2.94 young players starting in the league. It'd be interesting to see the stats for the last two seasons.

There was an interesting post on leinsterfans giving the stats for percentage of homegrown players in the squad through the years. Under Schmidt, it was 72% in '10/'11, going down to 65% and then 63% the following two seasons. It's been going up from 73% to 76% to 79% to 83% in all the time Lancaster has been on board. Obviously that doesn't tell the full picture. Guys like Dundon and Auva'a, who probably didn't go down as homegrown players would still have needed to be developed into league standard players.

Obviously there are other factors at play in how players develop than just who the head coach of the senior team is, but I think the stats point to things being very healthy at the moment.

You appear to have forgotten about Leo Cullen here.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm certainly not ragging on Schmidt. What he did with Leinster was a real eye opener in terms of the difference quality coaching can make.

That said - and maybe there's an element of recency bias here - I do think the 2nd and 3rd choice players are better able to fill in now without a drop in performance level. Maybe the league was stronger back under Schmidt, and maybe the conference system makes it easier now, but Leinster didn't dominate in the league under Schmidt like they do now. I think they only finished top in one out of his three seasons. In 2011 they had to go away to Munster in the final, and in 2013 they were only at home in the final because Ulster weren't able to host it.

This article is interesting https://dementedmole.com/2018/03/21/from-aquarius-to-leo-rising/. Both Schmidt and Lancaster were/are good at bringing through young players. The average no. of U23 players starting in league matches in Schmidt's three seasons at the helm was 2.96, 3.08 and 2.79. In Lancaster's first year it jumped up from 2.71 the previous year to 3.65. Then in '17/'18 it levelled off at an average of 2.94 young players starting in the league. It'd be interesting to see the stats for the last two seasons.

There was an interesting post on leinsterfans giving the stats for percentage of homegrown players in the squad through the years. Under Schmidt, it was 72% in '10/'11, going down to 65% and then 63% the following two seasons. It's been going up from 73% to 76% to 79% to 83% in all the time Lancaster has been on board. Obviously that doesn't tell the full picture. Guys like Dundon and Auva'a, who probably didn't go down as homegrown players would still have needed to be developed into league standard players.

Obviously there are other factors at play in how players develop than just who the head coach of the senior team is, but I think the stats point to things being very healthy at the moment.

Joe spent a huge amount of time in Leinster getting the model right. Making sure the schools started the proper models etc. Picking out the likes of Ryan and Larmour.



He continued that in his role with IRFU.



The players coming out of the academy now are able to walk straight into the Leinster first team and some of them straight into Ireland. This was not the case when Joe was coach.



I think Leo etc are now benefiting from the work and others started in the early 2010's

The Lost Sheep

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Joe spent a huge amount of time in Leinster getting the model right. Making sure the schools started the proper models etc. Picking out the likes of Ryan and Larmour.

He continued that in his role with IRFU.

The players coming out of the academy now are able to walk straight into the Leinster first team and some of them straight into Ireland. This was not the case when Joe was coach.
I think Leo etc are now benefiting from the work and others started in the early 2010's

how much did schmidt honestly do in a tiny number of schools?
Think that is not really true. And if he did it in his role with irfu. He didnt do anything beyond leinster.
I dont thi k the work dont in early 2010s in academy can really be attributed to Joe schmidt so much. Phil Lawler domestic rugby manager and his army of development officers are those who started, led and did the work.

bilston

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Here it is up on Spotify anyway:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0zz4M858C8tdBaAzKjXOVu?si=k4v9NoRpTTSwvfBg-mR7Zg

Doesn't sound like promotion and relegation in the Six Nations is something the IRFU are going to support anytime soon...rightly so IMO. What would what is essentially a business ever agree to such a risk to its very existence.

That said reading (listening) between the lines I'm more convinced than ever that it will be a Seven Nations sometime possibly around 2023 with the addition of South Africa.

Burkie1203

bilston wrote: »

Doesn't sound like promotion and relegation in the Six Nations is something the IRFU are going to support anytime soon...rightly so IMO. What would what is essentially a business ever agree to such a risk to its very existence.

That said reading (listening) between the lines I'm more convinced than ever that it will be a Seven Nations sometime possibly around 2023 with the addition of South Africa.

The other angle on this is, if there is no international rugby until Autumn 2021 for the IRFU to generate income from, does this put the Union in a position to have to consider cutting at least one pro team, as the consequences are the same income wise currently, topped off with provincial games BCD costing the Union/Provinces approx €35m [STH sales, match ticket sales, no International crowds etc]

Former Former

salmocab wrote: »

You appear to have forgotten about Leo Cullen here.

Will you cop on ffs

Bazzo

Mask slipping a little bit there I think :pac:

salmocab

Former Former wrote: »

Will you cop on ffs

???

bilston

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The other angle on this is, if there is no international rugby until Autumn 2021 for the IRFU to generate income from, does this put the Union in a position to have to consider cutting at least one pro team, as the consequences are the same income wise currently, topped off with provincial games BCD costing the Union/Provinces approx €35m [STH sales, match ticket sales, no International crowds etc]

At that point maybe govt would step in with a grant or even a long term loan. Rugby generates a decent amount of income for Dublin on Six Nations weekend and there is no doubt the hospitality industry will need big weekends when it re-opens so I think there is a solid argument for govt intervention if required.

Burkie1203

bilston wrote: »

At that point maybe govt would step in with a grant or even a long term loan. Rugby generates a decent amount of income for Dublin on Six Nations weekend and there is no doubt the hospitality industry will need big weekends when it re-opens so I think there is a solid argument for govt intervention if required.

A lot depends if games are BCD or not, and what the travel advice from DFAT is

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I haven't heard that but how on earth could someone from the IRFU, whose success has been built on revenue sharing with the English and French, take a dig at anyone for wanting the same! :pac:

He just said that despite what some might say, there isnt that much of a gap in revenues between the hemispheres.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I haven't heard that but how on earth could someone from the IRFU, whose success has been built on revenue sharing with the English and French, take a dig at anyone for wanting the same! :pac:

He just said that despite what some might say, there isnt that much of a gap in revenues between the hemispheres.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

He just said that despite what some might say, there isnt that much of a gap in revenues between the hemispheres.

But there is a gap. And that gap is entirely created by the fact we share revenue with England and France in international competitions. Which is completely right and beneficial to rugby in Europe, I just think it’s hypocritical if anyone TRULY believes other unions shouldn’t try to put themselves in a similar position (although I completely get why the CEO of one of the smaller 6 Nations unions would be have to take that stance).

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The other angle on this is, if there is no international rugby until Autumn 2021 for the IRFU to generate income from, does this put the Union in a position to have to consider cutting at least one pro team, as the consequences are the same income wise currently, topped off with provincial games BCD costing the Union/Provinces approx €35m [STH sales, match ticket sales, no International crowds etc]

I propose Leinster be disbanded.

awec

Sunny Most Thunder wrote: »

I propose Leinster be disbanded.

Seconded.

thomond2006

Sunny Most Thunder wrote: »

I propose Leinster be disbanded.

Connacht and Leinster need to go.

Bazzo

thomond2006 wrote: »

Connacht and Leinster need to go.

Suppose they have to keep Munster to have any hope of recuperating that debt on Thomond Park :pac:

Former Former

awec wrote: »

Seconded.

But where would Ulster get their players from?

awec

Former Former wrote: »

But where would Ulster get their players from?

Sure with all the money we’d save not having to pump millions into maintaining Leinsters oversized squad and development system we could sign whoever we wanted.

DGRulz

Ulster could finally fulfill their destiny and become a fully fledged South Africa B-side, instead of just being the Leinster C-side they are.