Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

shootermacg

Danthemanhere wrote: »

But questions have to be asked of Schmidt, we were as poorly prepared for this world cup as we have ever been. Our worst defeat ever at a world cup when losing against Japan and then our biggest ever defeat at a world cup when losing to New Zealand.

Joe has gone, just let it go... It's this inquest mentality that I hate in the press, but at least they're getting paid.

Danthemanhere

shootermacg wrote: »

Joe has gone, just let it go... It's this inquest mentality that I hate in the press, but at least they're getting paid.

Why? People spent thousands of euros to go out to Japan following them and they were a rabble. Surely lessons need to be learned, it can't be just brushed over.

bilston

Danthemanhere wrote: »

He gave the journalists some copy, quick, make him captain. :pac:

Hahaha.

He is potentially favourite, but it shouldn't be because he speaks to journalists!

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

Hahaha.

He is potentially favourite, but it shouldn't be because he speaks to journalists!

Maybe he wears white boots as well.... The horror!!!

Wegians89

players I think that will be guaranteed a starting spot post World Cup: Healy, furlong, Ryan, Murray, Sexton. I’d say Sexton will captain the team for a year or two beforecryan takes over

JJJackal

shootermacg wrote: »

Joe has gone, just let it go... It's this inquest mentality that I hate in the press, but at least they're getting paid.

The problem is the coaching ticket is unchanged at the core - even with Joe gone.

Important to keep an eye on things

sydthebeat

JJJackal wrote: »

The problem is the coaching ticket is unchanged at the core - even with Joe gone.

Important to keep an eye on things

Are you suggesting a complete change of coaching ticket???

Shefwedfan

JJJackal wrote: »

The problem is the coaching ticket is unchanged at the core - even with Joe gone.

Important to keep an eye on things

A number of the back grounds coach’s have gone with Joe....

The core was Joe and he is gone so what exactly are you talking about?

Shefwedfan

When you look at the s**t just played by Wales and they are in semi you have to wonder is ireland never going to get to a semi....we never get run of green

mr_edge_to_you

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Central contracts contribute to the problem that continually comes re: selection. They reward past form, rather than incentivise future performances. You get situations where a contracted player is past it, but the pressure is there to pick him because of the cost of his deal. They should be scrapped, and replaced with incentive driven deals, that encourages and rewards good performance.

I think this is an excellent post.

Be under no illusions, the Irish national rugby team is a business and a big one at that - it's essentially one big massive marketing project. Some centrally contracted players are amongst the best paid in Europe. In order to make a return on their investment the IRFU need these guys on the pitch and visible in the media as much as possible. I believe they do this at the expense of developing younger players and a different game.

The semi-final target in RWC2019 was a tangible KPI for the IRFU and they've missed it. So I expect they'll be doing their own review in that regard.

As I said, the national side is one big expensive marketing project. The annual 6 Nations and Autumn tests are the cashcows that keep the wheels greased. Unless the IRFU are prepared to give young guys opportunities to compete against the top sides in these meaningful windows, we'll never go past a quarter final. A central contract can't be a guarantee of a starting 15 jersey. They're now under pressure to perform in the 2020 6N because the world cup was in reality an abject failure. They need bums on seats to pay the bills.

The IRFU need to get a better balance between financial and rugby success. Not an easy task but there's a lot of people earning a lot on money who can sort it out I'm sure.

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A number of the back grounds coach’s have gone with Joe....

The core was Joe and he is gone so what exactly are you talking about?

Easterby, Murphy and Farrell are staying

Schmidt and Feek are leaving

Who else is leaving?

Danthemanhere

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When you look at the s**t just played by Wales and they are in semi you have to wonder is ireland never going to get to a semi....we never get run of green

It's not the rub of the green. We were a poorly prepared team that got ripped apart by Japan in this world cup. Luck doesn't come into it.

JJJackal

sydthebeat wrote: »

Are you suggesting a complete change of coaching ticket???

Yes, I have always thought Pat Lam would have been the ideal coach to replace Joe Schmidt

The Rape of Lucretia

Danthemanhere wrote: »

I'm still puzzled as to what our coaching team have been doing for the past year. We were all thinking they must have something up their sleeves, they must be holding things back but no, they literally had nothing.

There is a certain ring of truth to this observation.

And aspect of the Joe Show does always seem to have been never to try to do something different, rather to progress by improving the execution of the same system.

I feel guilty now at such impure thoughts - he isn't even gone a day, and I am starting to question him. ****! That was a cock crowing

Shefwedfan

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I think this is an excellent post.

Be under no illusions, the Irish national rugby team is a business and a big one at that - it's essentially one big massive marketing project. Some centrally contracted players are amongst the best paid in Europe. In order to make a return on their investment the IRFU need these guys on the pitch and visible in the media as much as possible. I believe they do this at the expense of developing younger players and a different game.

The semi-final target in RWC2019 was a tangible KPI for the IRFU and they've missed it. So I expect they'll be doing their own review in that regard.

As I said, the national side is one big expensive marketing project. The annual 6 Nations and Autumn tests are the cashcows that keep the wheels greased. Unless the IRFU are prepared to give young guys opportunities to compete against the top sides in these meaningful windows, we'll never go past a quarter final. A central contract can't be a guarantee of a starting 15 jersey. They're now under pressure to perform in the 2020 6N because the world cup was in reality an abject failure. They need bums on seats to pay the bills.

The IRFU need to get a better balance between financial and rugby success. Not an easy task but there's a lot of people earning a lot on money who can sort it out I'm sure.

Which young player has not been capped in the last 4 years?

Who was outside the 31 squad who was a shock omission? toner and Marmion, hardly spring chickens

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Which young player has not been capped in the last 4 years?

Who was outside the 31 squad who was a shock omission? toner and Marmion, hardly spring chickens

Maybe he is referring to the lack of starting minutes players like Joey Carberry, McGrath... had

Shefwedfan

JJJackal wrote: »

Yes, I have always thought Pat Lam would have been the ideal coach to replace Joe Schmidt

Lam didn’t want to wait around and jumped ship to England at the first sign of a few quid....that’s his choice and nobody should complain but how exactly would they take him back?

Shefwedfan

JJJackal wrote: »

Maybe he is referring to the lack of starting minutes players like Joey Carberry, McGrath... had

Carbery has spent much of last 12 months injured

Any time he was due to play he was sidelined....can’t say that’s Joe fault?

Larmour etc all got considerable minutes

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Lam didn’t want to wait around and jumped ship to England at the first sign of a few quid....that’s his choice and nobody should complain but how exactly would they take him back?

You realise he is a good coach with an attractive brand of rugby, you pay him and you bring him back...

Seems simple

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Carbery has spent much of last 12 months injured

Any time he was due to play he was sidelined....can’t say that’s Joe fault?

Larmour etc all got considerable minutes

How many starting minutes have these players including Larmour? Starting a game is different to coming on finishing a game when a game is already won

See out-half situation, has Joey ever got considerable minutes at out half versus a tier 1 nation? If Joey was injured why was there not another out half with more minutes. Carty got how many minutes in 6N?

Have we a second out-half with considerable minutes on board? Carty. The out-half situation was entirely predictable. It happened at the last world cup

ScissorPaperRock

JJJackal wrote: »

How many starting minutes have these players including Larmour? Starting a game is different to coming on finishing a game when a game is already won

See out-half situation, has Joey ever got considerable minutes at out half versus a tier 1 nation? If Joey was injured why was there not another out half with more minutes. Carty got how many minutes in 6N?

Have we a second out-half with considerable minutes on board? Carty. The out-half situation was entirely predictable. It happened at the last world cup

Well, there was a lot of investment in Paddy Jackson, who really was maturing as a backup to Sexton. That situation wasn't predictable, tbh.

Shefwedfan

JJJackal wrote: »

How many starting minutes have these players including Larmour? Starting a game is different to coming on finishing a game when a game is already won

See out-half situation, has Joey ever got considerable minutes at out half versus a tier 1 nation? If Joey was injured why was there not another out half with more minutes. Carty got how many minutes in 6N?

Have we a second out-half with considerable minutes on board? Carty. The out-half situation was entirely predictable. It happened at the last world cup

Everyone goes back to 10, PJ was given the time at 10....he got a whole tour to himself and then f**ked it up


Carbery was moved to Munster to get minutes at 10 but also minutes with the international 9....between Carbery injuries and Murray loss of form they didn't get as many minutes.



Carbery started at 10 v Oz, he was given the minutes. I still believe if Carbery didnt pick up that injury in warm up the WC would have been a lot better. That hit all the plans


Carty, well I am choosing not to comment:P

JJJackal

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Well, there was a lot of investment in Paddy Jackson, who really was maturing as a backup to Sexton. That situation wasn't predictable, tbh.

The PJ debate I wont start again lol

awec

I think this WC exit is even more annoying than 2015. I honestly don't really know where we go from here. What can we change or do differently?

Last time round it was obvious we didn't have the team to do the business. This time round we had the team (for the most part), they were flying at one stage, and then total collapse when it really mattered.

I don't envy Andy Farrell having to dissect the past year trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

JJJackal

awec wrote: »

I think this WC exit is even more annoying than 2015. I honestly don't really know where we go from here. What can we change or do differently?

Last time round it was obvious we didn't have the team to do the business. This time round we had the team (for the most part), they were flying at one stage, and then total collapse when it really mattered.

I don't envy Andy Farrell having to dissect the past year trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

I think the spine of the team were on a downward spiral due to age, recurrent injuries...

Shefwedfan

awec wrote: »

I think this WC exit is even more annoying than 2015. I honestly don't really know where we go from here. What can we change or do differently?

Last time round it was obvious we didn't have the team to do the business. This time round we had the team (for the most part), they were flying at one stage, and then total collapse when it really mattered.

I don't envy Andy Farrell having to dissect the past year trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

The u20 just won a Grand Slam, the work done by Joe and Nucifora at underage level is providing "better, faster, stronger" players :P


You have the likes of Carbery, Larmour, Ryan coming out along with loads of others. All the provinces seem to have good options coming up from the u20.



The future has never looked so bright.....


I do think the IRFU needs to step up pressure on the provinces in terms of promoting young players.......

Wegians89

awec wrote: »

I think this WC exit is even more annoying than 2015. I honestly don't really know where we go from here. What can we change or do differently?

Last time round it was obvious we didn't have the team to do the business. This time round we had the team (for the most part), they were flying at one stage, and then total collapse when it really mattered.

I don't envy Andy Farrell having to dissect the past year trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

All four provinces are showing positive signs recently. If Larkham adds exciting attacking ability to Munster all four provinces will be playing exciting rugby. There is a constant stream of very talented young players coming through the Irish u20 and breaking through to pro14 level.

While the coaching team hasn’t been completely changed, any change at all can spark something new and rejuvenate current international players. The future is not as bleak as many are making it out to be.

Shefwedfan

Wegians89 wrote: »

All four provinces are showing positive signs recently. If Larkham adds exciting attacking ability to Munster all four provinces will be playing exciting rugby. There is a constant stream of very talented young players coming through the Irish u20 and breaking through to pro14 level.

While the coaching team hasn’t been completely changed, any change at all can spark something new and rejuvenate current international players. The future is not as bleak as many are making it out to be.

The push to promote player to senior team in Pro14 has to be made

Playing a full strength team with internationals at home in pro 14 when the opposition is playing their B team doesn’t make any sense......

realhorrorshow

awec wrote: »

I think this WC exit is even more annoying than 2015. I honestly don't really know where we go from here. What can we change or do differently?

Last time round it was obvious we didn't have the team to do the business. This time round we had the team (for the most part), they were flying at one stage, and then total collapse when it really mattered.

I don't envy Andy Farrell having to dissect the past year trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

I would argue that there's plenty we could change, particularly in regards to our attacking structure. Not saying it should happen but just by picking Craig Casey we could completely change the way we attack.

I'd have to wonder about our S & C regime. We had the ability to manage our players' workloads for the last 4 years and yet we didn't seem to be in particularly great shape relative to other teams.

PhlegmyMoses

awec wrote: »

I think this WC exit is even more annoying than 2015. I honestly don't really know where we go from here. What can we change or do differently?

Last time round it was obvious we didn't have the team to do the business. This time round we had the team (for the most part), they were flying at one stage, and then total collapse when it really mattered.

I don't envy Andy Farrell having to dissect the past year trying to figure out where it all went wrong.

The problem remains largely the same though. We never added a fully fledged attacking plan to our solid defensive structure. We are too regimented and struggle to adapt to different styles. We are close to incapable of turning the tide in a game against a top team as a result. The defence is there, but we need Farrell to add a top class attacking plan. The big worry is whether we think he is the man to do it