Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Clegg

Jamison Gibson-Park is the best scrum half in Ireland right now.

Discuss.

kuang1

Clegg wrote: »

Jamison Gibson-Park is the best scrum half in Ireland right now.

Discuss.

Don't tell me what to do.

Paul Smeenus

Clegg wrote: »

Jamison Gibson-Park is the best scrum half in Ireland right now.

Discuss.

He's better than McGrath. Which is nice.

Yeah_Right

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

What would be nice is if we win our group at least have a team in the KO phase that isn’t NZL or a really inform side. Like Wales get THAT French team in 2019, we never get a situation like that, it’s either NZL or a team in such good form that we question if we would prefer NZL...

Not sure why you're obsessing about the ABs. From memory, Ireland has only played the ABs twice in RWCs and only one of them was a qf.

The reality is it doesn't matter who face in the quarters, you have to win 3 games in a row. Chances are that at least 2 of them will be against top quality opposition. The Boks in 2007 are the only ones to ever get 3 easy knock out games.

UAEguy2020

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Not sure why you're obsessing about the ABs. From memory, Ireland has only played the ABs twice in RWCs and only one of them was a qf.

The reality is it doesn't matter who face in the quarters, you have to win 3 games in a row. Chances are that at least 2 of them will be against top quality opposition. The Boks in 2007 are the only ones to ever get 3 easy knock out games.

But look back to 2015, it was either the All Blacks or an Argentine side that was so good that you basically had a 2019 situation where you are up against it no matter what.

I’m all for that the issue is the QF itself. If we got NZL in a semi I wouldn’t complain.

PTH2009

Will it be the same squad for the 6N and nations Cup ?

Obv James Lowe won't be eligible for the 2 6N games

Brief_Lives

I really dont know why you are asking this....

AbusesToilets

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

But look back to 2015, it was either the All Blacks or an Argentine side that was so good that you basically had a 2019 situation where you are up against it no matter what.

I’m all for that the issue is the QF itself. If we got NZL in a semi I wouldn’t complain.

I get the sentiment, but we've never performed in a 1/4, outside of Aus in '91 and the 20 or so mins after Luke came on in '15. Until they can figure out what the mental hurdle is that causes us to shrink in the spotlight, we'll never achieve anything.

Clegg

Munster have been awful since the restart of the season. A lot of their players are bang out of form and if Farrell selects on form there are very few who deserve to be in the Ireland squad.

Stander and Conway are the only guys you can make a case for. Murray hasn't discovered his 2018 form, POM hasn't performed in red or green for ages and his discipline has gone to pot. Beirne doesn't have the physicality to play in the second row and Chris Farrell doesn't seem to use his own physicality or handling skills to any decent effect these days.

realhorrorshow

Clegg wrote: »

Munster have been awful since the restart of the season. A lot of their players are bang out of form and if Farrell selects on form there are very few who deserve to be in the Ireland squad.

Stander and Conway are the only guys you can make a case for. Murray hasn't discovered his 2018 form, POM hasn't performed in red or green for ages and his discipline has gone to pot. Beirne doesn't have the physicality to play in the second row and Chris Farrell doesn't seem to use his own physicality or handling skills to any decent effect these days.

Shane Daly had been looking good too but he's injured now I think.

Utah_Saint

So...POM to start at 6 in Autumn internationals?

AbusesToilets

Utah_Saint wrote: »

So...POM to start at 6 in Autumn internationals?

As is tradition

UAEguy2020

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I get the sentiment, but we've never performed in a 1/4, outside of Aus in '91 and the 20 or so mins after Luke came on in '15. Until they can figure out what the mental hurdle is that causes us to shrink in the spotlight, we'll never achieve anything.

That’s true but it doesn’t help when not only have we not turned up but our opponents do. Argentina and NZL arguably saved their best performance for us whereas we saved our worst for the QF and we get totally blown away, the two QF’s were carbon copies of each other.

It’s definitely a mental thing as you don’t see any of the other QF’s screw up as much as we do.

AbusesToilets

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

That’s true but it doesn’t help when not only have we not turned up but our opponents do. Argentina and NZL arguably saved their best performance for us whereas we saved our worst for the QF and we get totally blown away, the two QF’s were carbon copies of each other.

It’s definitely a mental thing as you don’t see any of the other QF’s screw up as much as we do.

2003, 2011, 2015, all matches we could've won but fell on our faces. Slow starts are the death of us

UAEguy2020

But 2015 was a carbon copy of 2019 the only difference if Argentina let up after 20 minutes or so whereas NZL didn’t let up until the game was well and truly out of sight. What annoys me is the lack of fight, it’s like they have accepted defeat before a ball is kicked and just roll over and accept their fate.

2011 was an embarrassment if as unlike the other two Wales actually let us into the game and instead we just kicked the ball away the whole game until Wales got out of sight before actually trying to play rugby. It’s really not good enough for a team that has aspirations of being one of the top 4 teams in World Rugby.

Clegg

Always a good weekend when the provinces manage a clean sweep. There's one more round of fixtures where the test players will be available before the 6 Nations and Autumn Series begins. I'll have a bash at a starting 15 for the Italy match.

The front row is the biggest area of debate for me as each player has their flaws. Healy is on the decline and Kelleher/Porter need to work on their set piece issues. But they're still the best of the options we have available. Herring is decent but I'm going for the younger hooker. Would also love to Hugo Keenan in the wider squad. Been excellent since the restart. Thrown into Leinsters biggest games of the season.and excelled.

Healy
Kelleher
Porter
Henderson
Ryan
Stander
VDF
Doris

Marmion
Sexton
Earls
Aki
Ringrose
Conway
Larmour

AbusesToilets

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

But 2015 was a carbon copy of 2019 the only difference if Argentina let up after 20 minutes or so whereas NZL didn’t let up until the game was well and truly out of sight. What annoys me is the lack of fight, it’s like they have accepted defeat before a ball is kicked and just roll over and accept their fate.

2011 was an embarrassment if as unlike the other two Wales actually let us into the game and instead we just kicked the ball away the whole game until Wales got out of sight before actually trying to play rugby. It’s really not good enough for a team that has aspirations of being one of the top 4 teams in World Rugby.

2011 you could put down to Kidney going with ROG to start, immediately put us on the back foot. Wales blew us away to start with, but if Williams doesn't hold up the ball, who knows how it shakes out?

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

Always a good weekend when the provinces manage a clean sweep. There's one more round of fixtures where the test players will be available before the 6 Nations and Autumn Series begins. I'll have a bash at a starting 15 for the Italy match.

The front row is the biggest area of debate for me as each player has their flaws. Healy is on the decline and Kelleher/Porter need to work on their set piece issues. But they're still the best of the options we have available. Herring is decent but I'm going for the younger hooker. Would also love to Hugo Keenan in the wider squad. Been excellent since the restart. Thrown into Leinsters biggest games of the season.and excelled.

Healy
Kelleher
Porter
Henderson
Ryan
Stander
VDF
Doris

Marmion
Sexton
Earls
Aki
Ringrose
Conway
Larmour

Must be a chance that a squad will be announced this coming week?

It would be good to see Keenan in there, and hopefully a few others like Hume and Baird

Clegg

bilston wrote: »

Must be a chance that a squad will be announced this coming week?

It would be good to see Keenan in there, and hopefully a few others like Hume and Baird

Like the look of Hume as well. Hope we bring him in as an apprentice like we did with Balacoune back in February.

I think Baird actually makes the 23 for Italy. He's a perfect option for impact off the bench. Made a lot of positive contributions against Saracens in the QF and against Dragons last night. Has tip level athleticism and is a skilled footballer. Think he's going to pressure Henderson for a starting spot in a few years time.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1312135017733058560?s=19

UAEguy2020

AbusesToilets wrote: »

2011 you could put down to Kidney going with ROG to start, immediately put us on the back foot. Wales blew us away to start with, but if Williams doesn't hold up the ball, who knows how it shakes out?

Yeah but it was still a close enough game on the scoreboard although in truth Wales were far superior on the day. I did want O’Gara at the time but I was only 14 then so knew little about bigger picture 😂

The issue is in all these matches you can clearly see we a nothing like the same team, if they could go into these games like they have during the AB games in recent times I would be delighted.

UAEguy2020

Clegg wrote: »

Like the look of Hume as well. Hope we bring him in as an apprentice like we did with Balacoune back in February.

I think Baird actually makes the 23 for Italy. He's a perfect option for impact off the bench. Made a lot of positive contributions against Saracens in the QF and against Dragons last night. Has tip level athleticism and is a skilled footballer. Think he's going to pressure Henderson for a starting spot in a few years time.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1312135017733058560?s=19

On most occasions yes but against Italy we need to play a trusted but explosive team as we need to take them to the cleaners in order to give us the best chance possible in Paris the following week for the title.

Clegg

We're in bother in the back 3 for the upcoming test games. I included Earls in the side , but forgot he was injured. I don't think Stockdale deserves a place in the squad currently due to poor form. It's the same story with Larmour, but I don't think his issues are as big as Jacob's right now.

Buer

Jarrad Butler is Irish qualified. We've a plethora of options in the back row but he's deserving of a call up and has certainly out performed some other options in the last 6 weeks.

Bazzo

Buer wrote: »

Jarrad Butler is Irish qualified. We've a plethora of options in the back row but he's deserving of a call up and has certainly out performed some other options in the last 6 weeks.

Mr. Reliable. Don't think I've ever seen him put in a less than 7/10 performance.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

We're in bother in the back 3 for the upcoming test games. I included Earls in the side , but forgot he was injured. I don't think Stockdale deserves a place in the squad currently due to poor form. It's the same story with Larmour, but I don't think his issues are as big as Jacob's right now.

Conway, Keenan, Lyttle perhaps. All in good form at club level. Lowe when he qualifies, Larmour on the bench.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Jarrad Butler is Irish qualified. We've a plethora of options in the back row but he's deserving of a call up and has certainly out performed some other options in the last 6 weeks.

I didn't realise he is Irish qualified. An obvious option and absolutely has earned a call up.

Buer

People automatically look to Aki when it comes to the leader in Connacht but Butler is a real standard setter. As Bazzo says, he doesn't drop below a 7/10 showing. Will that translate to test rugby? The likelihood is that it won't but he's earned the right to find out.

Guinness RFC

Clegg wrote: »

Like the look of Hume as well. Hope we bring him in as an apprentice like we did with Balacoune back in February.

I think Baird actually makes the 23 for Italy. He's a perfect option for impact off the bench. Made a lot of positive contributions against Saracens in the QF and against Dragons last night. Has tip level athleticism and is a skilled footballer. Think he's going to pressure Henderson for a starting spot in a few years time.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1312135017733058560?s=19

Baird will need to come through some massive international battles before being even considered in the same breath as Henderson for me. I’m thinking 78 mins French match in Paris and Iain blasting through Picamoles to bring it ten yards up field to get into drop goal range. Baird has shown a lot of footballing and fair weather skills but hasn’t come near that dogged destructiveness in white hot fight to the death. Will he carry a team like Hendo did in Paris that day? He has a lot to prove to get to that level.

Guinness RFC

Buer wrote: »

Jarrad Butler is Irish qualified. We've a plethora of options in the back row but he's deserving of a call up and has certainly out performed some other options in the last 6 weeks.

I think he’s a very real option at 7 if he gets called up. I know he plays 6/8 but a backrow of Doris Stander and him at 7 could provide the physicality we’ve been lacking. Definitely worth a look.

Richie_Rich89

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

That’s true but it doesn’t help when not only have we not turned up but our opponents do. Argentina and NZL arguably saved their best performance for us whereas we saved our worst for the QF and we get totally blown away, the two QF’s were carbon copies of each other.

It’s definitely a mental thing as you don’t see any of the other QF’s screw up as much as we do.

It's a cliché but also a truism that the Irish team's biggest strength (as well as its greatest weakness) is that they play at the level of the opposition. Of course, this is a problem in quarter finals because if you're waiting to see what the level of the opposition is, they could be over the horizon before you can get going.

It all comes from the fact that as a people the Irish have massive egos, but very low self esteem. They're always worried and insecure what other countries might think of them. So, to avert the danger of being trendsetters that might come with starting fast (which would open you up to being seen as different by other nations you feel inferior to) from the mental side of things it's far safer to let the other team potentially do that and then react.

I think Ireland's best chance of being mentally right for a RWC QF might be if they were facing Australia or England. The former because historically there were a lot of Irish in Australia, which means they'd be seen as similar, and the latter because Ireland have no problem getting up for a game against England.